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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2007
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    San Jose, Ca
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    Good tips – there I see often that is in very sorry condition. He looks older – and is a rack of bones despite being on good grass. I have seen him in founder stance on many occasions. The owner’s of the property have a large barn – and a several horse stable – yet old very skinny guy, and his old, but not in terrible shape companion are locked out of them. I have seen these two out in thunderstorms, wind whipping off the ocean (the pasture is right next to the pacific) huddled for shelter – as they do not have any trees, and are locked out of the suitable shelters.

    I emailed and called Animal Control (San Mateo County ironically) regarding the condition of the horse. I stressed that while it DID have food, it did not have shelter, and was in terrible shape. On multiple occasions I witnessed it struggle to remain standing (hind end giving out). Suggested maybe teeth, or some other issue was the problem, but that no horse should be in this condition.

    Animal Control said that they had someone knowledgeable with horses that would be following up.

    I never heard anything more. The horse is still in its field looking pathetic.



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jun. 27, 2005
    Location
    KY
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    4,726

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    I contacted the Kentucky Dept. of Ag. this morning about someone claiming that there are atrocious abuses occurring at Kentucky feedlots! I can't repeat their comments, but they were not pleased. They requested who was making such claims, so I referred them to the thread on coth where it was posted!
    What did they do?
    Laugh at you?????
    Oh and let me know who you spoke with since I pretty much know most of them.
    May just call that person so he/she and I can have a good laugh about your lack of "lot lingo"

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2013
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    Southeastern US
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    Appsolute, please call them back. They may be monitoring the situation, working with the owner, or having trouble contacting the owner. As someone else suggested, if it is safe to get a picture, that might help.

    Since you know the area, I'll tell you about the horse expert that used to work there. She was very, very good. She sent me undercover to the rental stables in Half Moon Bay several times and we followed up several times on open wounds, improper shoeing, lack of water and shade, etc... Their trick is to sell the stables to someone else every time they get in trouble. Last I heard, it was Chinese owned after an accident where a rental horse ran into the road and a driver was killed.

    *She actually died in the line of duty, in a separate incident, while trying to catch a loose horse on Devil's Slide. It was bad weather and the horse panicked. She went over the cliff. It was very sad.

    *edited to clarify
    Last edited by microbovine; Apr. 17, 2013 at 09:19 AM.
    Is chasing cattle considered playing with your food?.

    War veteran



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jul. 1, 2011
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    483

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    Sounds like one more reason to support the new rules which prevent photos/video unless turned over to true law enforcement within 24 hours. Besides trespass, breaking and entering, etc, they can cost horses and people their lives.



  5. #45
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    Jan. 28, 2013
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    Southeastern US
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    Perhaps that was poor editing on my part. The loose horse on Devil's Slide was a separate incident from the rental stables. The horse was running loose around a dangerous coastal highway. It was urgent that the horse was captured before causing a possibly deadly accident. I believe the police were on scene to control traffic while she tried to catch the loose horse.

    As far as the undercover work we did at the rental stables, there is no breaking and entering or trespassing charges when someone is a paying customer in public areas.


    7arabians, are you really trying to object to LE investigating farms with a long history of abuse? Would it be a better world if we never had any proof of Big Lick violations, western pleasure horses with heads tied high in their stalls for hours on end, or burning agents inserted into Arabian horses' rectums? Those practices might never have come to light without undercover work and pictures.

    If your operation is scared of someone with a camera, you're doing it wrong.
    Is chasing cattle considered playing with your food?.

    War veteran


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Oct. 1, 2005
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    Sandy, Utah
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    Quote Originally Posted by microbovine View Post
    If your operation is scared of someone with a camera, you're doing it wrong.
    I'd like to agree with your point, but that's unfortunately only true if the person with the camera is truly objective, knows their stuff, and doesn't have an agenda. Sorry but I've seen too many diced and sliced videos, with music and emotional/ dramatic narrative, that were just bogus. Like one that alleged mistreated horses at a particular facility I'm familiar with- and the thin but not close to starving horse pictured was not even at that facility! And another that alleged 'poor starving horses' using as an example a plump horse hoovering up a piece of hay off the ground- apparently the filmer was unaware that even the most obese of horses will 'Hoover' any snippet of food they find, it's what horses do.

    So the upshot is, in my experience, secret videography is unfortunately as likely to result in wrongful accusation as it is in demonstrating legimate horse welfare issues that need to be addressed.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
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    Nov. 15, 2005
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beverley View Post
    I'd like to agree with your point, but that's unfortunately only true if the person with the camera is truly objective, knows their stuff, and doesn't have an agenda. Sorry but I've seen too many diced and sliced videos, with music and emotional/ dramatic narrative, that were just bogus. Like one that alleged mistreated horses at a particular facility I'm familiar with- and the thin but not close to starving horse pictured was not even at that facility! And another that alleged 'poor starving horses' using as an example a plump horse hoovering up a piece of hay off the ground- apparently the filmer was unaware that even the most obese of horses will 'Hoover' any snippet of food they find, it's what horses do.

    So the upshot is, in my experience, secret videography is unfortunately as likely to result in wrongful accusation as it is in demonstrating legimate horse welfare issues that need to be addressed.
    Lets say there's a person with an agenda and they come onto a farm and say the horses are not getting fed [even though they are fat and bedded on hay].
    If that person then took pics and sent to them to authorities... isn't it then for the authorities to press or not press charges based on the photos and their subsequent investigation?

    Regardless of the agenda of the photo taker, at the feet of the authorities should be where the balance comes in and those legitimate allegations get prosecuted and those who are wrongly portrayed do not.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #48
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    Oct. 1, 2005
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    Sandy, Utah
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    Lets say there's a person with an agenda and they come onto a farm and say the horses are not getting fed [even though they are fat and bedded on hay].
    If that person then took pics and sent to them to authorities... isn't it then for the authorities to press or not press charges based on the photos and their subsequent investigation?

    Regardless of the agenda of the photo taker, at the feet of the authorities should be where the balance comes in and those legitimate allegations get prosecuted and those who are wrongly portrayed do not.
    Swamping the authorities with unwarranted accusations would not, in my opinion, serve to improve animal welfare. To the contrary it would tie them up and waste precious staff time and limited resources and delay the ability to address legitimate wrongdoing. There is also the 'crying wolf' problem- if 'Joe Blow' submits baseless evidence 9 times, and has a legitimate case on the 10th, the authorities are probably not likely to pay attention since 'Joe Blow' has credibility problems.

    But for sure, better to send evidence to the 'authorities' than doing what is too often done- circulating 'damning' evidence via press and social media when it is without merit and thereby not only falsely accusing, but falsely trying and convicting without due process.

    Make no mistake, I am for good animal welfare and often enough the wrongdoer had better hope that the authorities reach them before I do. My main concern is generally that I don't want people who lack basic knowledge of animal care, however well intentioned, to be defining what constitutes legitimate abuse and cruelty.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
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    Nov. 15, 2005
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    NY
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    Agreed Beverly.



  10. #50
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    Oct. 26, 2007
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    San Jose, Ca
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    Quote Originally Posted by microbovine View Post
    Appsolute, please call them back. They may be monitoring the situation, working with the owner, or having trouble contacting the owner. As someone else suggested, if it is safe to get a picture, that might help.
    I just might - this has been going on for YEARS by the way. The horse is easily visible from the road. Just have to take a little detour to check on it (was on the way to my old barn).

    Quote Originally Posted by microbovine View Post
    Since you know the area, I'll tell you about the horse expert that used to work there. She was very, very good. She sent me undercover to the rental stables in Half Moon Bay several times and we followed up several times on open wounds, improper shoeing, lack of water and shade, etc... Their trick is to sell the stables to someone else every time they get in trouble. Last I heard, it was Chinese owned after an accident where a rental horse ran into the road and a driver was killed.

    *She actually died in the line of duty, in a separate incident, while trying to catch a loose horse on Devil's Slide. It was bad weather and the horse panicked. She went over the cliff. It was very sad.

    *edited to clarify
    The rental strings are TERRIBLE, one finally closed, but "Sea Horse Ranch" is still open, and often in the news for some sort of incident.

    And that is terrible regarding the Devil's Slide incident! When did this happen?? I used to keep my horse right next to the slide - and rode along the trails on the cliffs above the highway often. One day a horse did get lose up there - and *almost* jumped off the cliff, gave me a heart attack, but I was able to catch it without incident.



  11. #51
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 1999
    Location
    Mendocino County, CA: Turkey Vulture HQ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beverley View Post
    I can, and will, call the appropriate authorities if need be.

    But the flip side is the many unwarranted complaints by well intentioned but not knowledgeable people. For example (similar to Inca's point) I found AC waiting for me at my barn one day having received a call about a 'starving' horse. Which was, a 30 yo toothless mare at the end of winter, eating more of her special gruel and etc than the other three horses combined. AC was satisfied and said 'gee, sorry, but we have to check every time someone calls.'

    I am absolutely horrified at the thought that if some folks have their way, 'officers' would have been able to simply take my beloved old mare away without due process. Which would not have been good for the mare. (I digress a bit but it is to me a big concern).

    There are a couple of rescues in this area who have bragged about "rescuing" older horses that were "near death" ... by putting them in a trailer and driving them an hour or more over twisty mountain highways, sometimes past other places that might have taken a horse in. I cannot imagine putting a horse in terrible shape through such an ordeal.

    In at least one instance, the poor horse did fall in the trailer and arrived at its destination with a grisly fracture.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket



  12. #52
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2006
    Location
    The rocky part of KY
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    This morning's companion search on CL started with this: http://lexington.craigslist.org/grd/3748762957.html so I went searching and found this: http://lexington.craigslist.org/grd/3693808914.html .

    I won't be able to save the pics and the text till DD comes home, I'm not that savvy.

    This is in a very small town in a very small county, and the AC is represented through the sheriff's dept. Even though I am looking for a companion I'm NOT looking for two projects, nor do I have $500 extra dollars.

    So, what to do? All I have is the same as the rest of you can see in the ad and the comments in the other ad, plus the AC contact http://www.jacksoncountyky.us/govern...l_control.html somewhere in there is an email addy (edited to add I can't find one for the AC contact) to send the CL text to, if that isn't removed shortly.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
    Incredible Invisible



  13. #53
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    Aug. 30, 2007
    Location
    Illinois, USA
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    I guess call me pessimistic, but I've never seen an Animal Control that ever seemed to really care that much about large animals/livestock. The horse can be a rack of bones, but if there's hay on the property anywhere (makes no difference if it's accessable to the animal) and there's some form of water (makes no difference if it's clean or safe to drink), that's good enough.

    Most owners of these kinds of horses don't need "help" or "education". They need a baseball bat to the head.

    Rant over.
    Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!



  14. #54
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    Apr. 21, 2010
    Posts
    2,548

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    Resomething. I saved the photos. Do you want me to email them to you? And yes, I would call it in.



  15. #55
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    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
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    19,409

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    Considering it's Jackson County...good luck. The two in the photos look like they're in better shape than my neighbor's. A/C thought they looked "fine". But by all means, report them.

    ***I do not live in Jackson County!
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  16. #56
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    Sep. 18, 2007
    Location
    FL
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    699

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    hard to tell in pictures...usually if they LOOK skinny in pics, it's worse in person..



  17. #57
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    Feb. 28, 2006
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    The rocky part of KY
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    The ads are still up and I sure wish they had an email address for the AC guy. Trying to explain how to find the pics on CL is going to go over SO well.

    Bother.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
    Incredible Invisible



  18. #58
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by microbovine View Post
    7arabians, are you really trying to object to LE investigating farms with a long history of abuse? Would it be a better world if we never had any proof of Big Lick violations, western pleasure horses with heads tied high in their stalls for hours on end, or burning agents inserted into Arabian horses' rectums? Those practices might never have come to light without undercover work and pictures.

    If your operation is scared of someone with a camera, you're doing it wrong.
    I don't think she's coming back. She's been outed.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #59
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    Jan. 28, 2013
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    Southeastern US
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    Something very odd happened on this post. I see my two older posts now, but couldn't see them after I posted. I tried to respond about the CL horses above and that disappeared as well.

    Anyway, resomething, thank you for trying to do something. Copies of the pictures and ad can be emailed to the AC, or their representative, in your area.

    I understand the issue of older horses not looking their best. I have been there. I put down our 34 year old fellow this past fall. When he was looking bad there towards the end I had already scheduled the appointment, I actually called the AC and explained his age, his condition and the plan (putting him down on X day). That was all it took. They never stopped by.

    In fact, because Gus' hooves look so bad, I called them and explained the situation (feral pony that I am taming). Of course, you guys probably don't need to do this but we are on a busy road and AC trucks pass by all the time. In fact, one officer lives just down the street, LOL!
    Is chasing cattle considered playing with your food?.

    War veteran



  20. #60
    Join Date
    Jul. 1, 2011
    Posts
    483

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    Sounds like you are living dangerously. If Angela, lauraky, lubmytbs, Analise and a few others on here were to hear of your activities, you would be arrested and all horses and property seized. Analise and GG claim that they can make a 34 year old horse fat and sassy and you should have never euthanized him. You are lucky that they haven't come after you!



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