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  1. #1
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    Jul. 16, 2011
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    Default Foal pricing in the US vs Europe?

    So, I am starting to look for a foal or two (preferably a filly) that would be dressage prospects for me. I am trying to find a foal in the US first and there are some foals I am going to look at, and there are some videos of foals I have really liked. But it just seems like the prices are so high for these foals, that I could just go buy a horse under-saddle for an equal price and save 4 years of board and vet bills. I am confused about the large variation of prices. There are a couple of reasonably priced foals but the majority of them are in the upper teens to low 20's and I think that is a pretty high for the huge risk involved with a purchase of a foal. To make it even a little more difficult I want a filly with really good bloodlines, as I am considering have a small breeding operation. Whereas when I talk to people from Europe they say that most super nice foals are around 6-8 euros, and then you seem to get better bloodlines and just higher quality. Also in Europe I can buy some really nice 2-3 year olds for a similar price and then save 2-3 years of board bills. I know you add another 5k for import, but still that goes under most nice foals priced here in the US. The whole reason I want a foal is I am willing to take the risk of purchasing a foal, because I want a foal that I could not afford when it is 4 years old and under-saddle. So basically why is there such a difference, and should I just start looking over in Europe? It just scares me because I don't know anyone I trust to find me a foal. Thanks!



  2. #2
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    Nov. 25, 2006
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    Virginia
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    It is amazing how high foals can be. I just bought a lovely one with nice lines but while I was looking I found many of the foals I liked were 16k! I know breeding is expensive but there is no way I am spending that much money on a foal / yearling! I suggest you stay looking in the US bc there are SO many wonderful breeders here and I think you can find a beautiful filly with great bloodlines here, for a reasonable price. Are you looking for any specific lines?



  3. #3
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    Jul. 16, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by RheinlandPfalzSaar View Post
    It is amazing how high foals can be. I just bought a lovely one with nice lines but while I was looking I found many of the foals I liked were 16k! I know breeding is expensive but there is no way I am spending that much money on a foal / yearling! I suggest you stay looking in the US bc there are SO many wonderful breeders here and I think you can find a beautiful filly with great bloodlines here, for a reasonable price. Are you looking for any specific lines?
    I know I need to keep looking it is just pretty hard with all the prices the way they are or they aren't even for sale. I really am looking for lines that are proven to produce FEI dressage horses. And it is hard because I want to find a special foal that I can show and bring up (hopefully) to the FEI. I am riding some Werther geldings I like, I like alot of the Blu Horse stallions, and Londonderry, Bellisimo, Don Schufro, De Niro. But really I am pretty flexible as long as they are proven lines from the sire and dam lines. Also, just to preface I have shown up to PSG, I am young and I have a 4 year old now, I just want a nice dressage prospect or two behind my mare.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2008
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    610

    Default

    I WISH you could import for only 5k. Remember that you have to have the foal shipped to the layover place in Germany, shipped to US, and then shipped home (which could be another thousand easily because you are going to want a box stall). All of the previous plus any vetwork will be done in Euros, which will add another 1/3 to the price. If you buy at auction you will have to pay commissions and VAT on top of the sale price. VAT is later refunded but you still have to pay it upfront.

    So your basic 5800 Euro import quote turns into over 8k USD plus the 1k+ box stall to get the foal home. Which may all be worth it if you find your dream foal, just something to think about. Good luck OP!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2011
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    I meant 5k euros ( I deal with people who own a quarentine facility (that are from Germany) and they say about 5,000 but it is euros. But I too wish it was 5,000 USD.
    Quote Originally Posted by password View Post
    I WISH you could import for only 5k. Remember that you have to have the foal shipped to the layover place in Germany, shipped to US, and then shipped home (which could be another thousand easily because you are going to want a box stall). All of the previous plus any vetwork will be done in Euros, which will add another 1/3 to the price. If you buy at auction you will have to pay commissions and VAT on top of the sale price. VAT is later refunded but you still have to pay it upfront.

    So your basic 5800 Euro import quote turns into over 8k USD plus the 1k+ box stall to get the foal home. Which may all be worth it if you find your dream foal, just something to think about. Good luck OP!



  6. #6

    Default

    You can always find a deal if you look hard enough, no matter what country you are in!

    That being said, if you are looking for a deal, those are fewer and further between when you ALSO want "a filly with really good bloodlines" to breed one day. Many breeders will save their best fillies for their own breeding programs, and value those higher than any other foal they have. I think there's a saying, "breed the best and ride the rest" - which mirrors the sentiment of many top-notch breeders.

    I do not know the current prices of Warmblood (I am assuming this is the type you are looking for) fillies in the US vs Europe, but one of the main issues with buying in Europe you have already pinpointed,

    should I just start looking over in Europe? It just scares me because I don't know anyone I trust to find me a foal.
    Buying in Europe means overcoming more obstacles, as you would expect with buying in a foreign country. If you know the "right" people, it could end up really beautifully for you, but if you don't, it could be a total nightmare and spending more money than you anticipated. I would absolutely do my research before diving into whichever way you go, that is the key to success.

    As for the variations in prices... well, I think it all depends on how much a breeder has had to put into a foal to put it on the ground, the availability/how rare certain bloodlines are, the overall quality of the foal, and how well a breeder is at marketing their youngstock. It is my understanding that it is sometimes easier to sell foals more inexpensively in Europe due to the lower cost in raising them, and also the availability of fresh semen (vs frozen only here) that many breeders here have to resort to. I'm sure there are other factors, but I think that could be better answered by another breeder.
    Lorelei Farm - Welsh and Riding Ponies - Visit us on Facebook!
    Breeding show quality Welsh Ponies for hunters, dressage and driving!



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2011
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorelei Welsh View Post
    I would absolutely do my research before diving into whichever way you go, that is the key to success.
    Yes I have been trying to do ALOT of research but it seems like some of the best breeders are on here, so I hope to get some enlightening responses. I have been looking at some of the videos from the Elite auctions, and even the low selling foals are much nicer than the foals that are priced at 20k here. I think one problem I keep running into is alot of really nice stallions but the mares alone do not seem to be very nice ( of course there are exceptions, but most of those mares are imported from Europe)



  8. #8
    Join Date
    May. 25, 2005
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    best place so far
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    Default

    There are a lot of breeders here in the US with TOP breeding mares. I think the quality of foals here is AS good as in Europe. Remember the videos you see for the auctions are professionally made videos that have been edited for just the best few seconds of tape. I also think some breeders (myself included) will discuss pricing with a home that has proven show record...hence, I would think if you have a proven record you can sort of market yourself to the breeders and may be able to garner a better price.

    I have a foal coming mid-May that is Buddenbrock-Davignon-Matcho...both sides proven FEI bloodlines. However, if it is a filly it may be a keeper

    Also go to the Hanoverian website and look at all the breeder links. It is a great resource.
    Read about my time at the Hannoveraner Verband Breeders Courses:
    http://blumefarm.com/hannoveranercourse2011.html
    http://blumefarm.com/hannoveranercourse2012.html


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9

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    Our foals sell anywhere from 8K to 13K. This is anywhere from weanling to a lightly backed 3 year old. Their quality has all been great (all KWPN First Premiums) with very nice bloodlines...so the price differences are more based on where I am at as a breeder...meaning got move some stock or too busy or don't want to send to a trainer just yet...etc... It never hurts to ask about the price being negotiable.
    Also, unfortunately I think being in the Midwest makes it hard to get the same prices the east and west coast breeders get. So maybe look into some of the breeders in "the middle". Please don't go to Europe for a horse...the horse you are looking for is here...you just haven't found it yet.



  10. #10
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    Jul. 16, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabino Farm View Post
    Please don't go to Europe for a horse...the horse you are looking for is here...you just haven't found it yet.
    I am trying to not go to Europe, nor do I really want to as I think it is an increased risk. I just last year bought a 3 year old filly from Oak Hill Ranch, and I think she is quite special as an FEI prospect (as do some pretty big US and Danish riders). I have seen a few foals priced higher than what I purchased her for, and she is much nicer. And I would much rather buy a horse here, it just seems like alot less to choose from and much more money. One thing is, where can I find more foals that are advertised? That is one of the hardest things, to even find where they are for sale.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct. 22, 2010
    Posts
    18

    Default

    If people don't start supporting American breeders, they will go away and you won't have a choice. If I sold my yearling, now 11 months old, tomorrow, and received $15,000, I would still lose money. That does not include the "opportunity costs" of the broodmare. You need to find out how expensive this breeding game really is - if you do it right. It costs the same to raise a million dollar foal as a $100 foal - if you do it right.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb. 7, 2003
    Posts
    655

    Default

    Prices for foals vary greatly by region. If you are looking primarily on the East Coast, you will pay the highest prices. Look at the MidWest breeders group website, look in Eastern Canada, look in the Pacific Northwest, etc. I know that makes you think of great distances to travel, but Europe is just as far. Good luck.
    Judy
    Sylvan Farm~Breeding for Performance
    Ramzes SF, approved GOV and Belgian http://sylvanfarm.com
    (former)Chair, USSHBA Positive ID Working Group; USSHBA Steering Committe member


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep. 9, 2003
    Location
    CA
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    Default

    So, your wish list is;
    • I want a filly with really good bloodlines, as I am considering have a small breeding operation.
    • I really am looking for lines that are proven to produce FEI dressage horses. And it is hard because I want to find a special foal that I can show and bring up (hopefully) to the FEI.
    • as long as they are proven lines from the sire and dam lines.
    • the Blu Horse stallions, and Londonderry, Bellisimo, Don Schufro, De Niro. (All stallions that are expensive to breed to)


    How much do you envision yourself wanting for the foals you intend to produce? When you spend good $ for a nice mare or filly, breed to top level stallions, will you be wanting to sell your prospects at bargain basement prices?
    The whole reason I want a foal is I am willing to take the risk of purchasing a foal, because I want a foal that I could not afford when it is 4 years old and under-saddle.
    Again, you want something of high quality, that undoubtedly will be expensive when its older. How do you expect these top quality babies to not carry a greater value /price tag? Most breeders base their prices upon the quality of the stock they are producing, or their desire to sell it. Rarely is it based upon what a buyer wants to pay for it.
    Maybe you'll get lucky to find a top quality , well bred filly with FEI potential for a song. But, often you get what you pay for.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2011
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    58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zlotych View Post
    So, your wish list is;
    [LIST]


    How much do you envision yourself wanting for the foals you intend to produce? When you spend good $ for a nice mare or filly, breed to top level stallions, will you be wanting to sell your prospects at bargain basement prices?

    Again, you want something of high quality, that undoubtedly will be expensive when its older. How do you expect these top quality babies to not carry a greater value /price tag? Most breeders base their prices upon the quality of the stock they are producing, or their desire to sell it. Rarely is it based upon what a buyer wants to pay for it.
    Maybe you'll get lucky to find a top quality , well bred filly with FEI potential for a song. But, often you get what you pay for.
    I understand where you are coming from, and I am not trying to get a foal for some crazy low price. I just don't fully understand the large difference I see sometimes in prices between foals of similar quality (even including the import costs) and I am trying to understand why, which I don't think is a bad thing. But I know the stallions I like are expensive, that some foals will be ET because I want a performance mare and that increases the price, the breeder should make a profit, the vet bills the breeder incur and so on. Yes, what I want will be expensive when it is older and should be pricey now, but I do feel like a foal should not be of equal price of it when it is 3 years old and started under-saddle.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
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    Mar. 12, 2006
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    Western South Dakota
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    I don't know. Buying a foal is always risky. With the way the market is now, are you really sure you can't buy an older youngster or even one already under saddle?



  16. #16
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    Apr. 11, 2006
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    Ontario, Canada
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    A lot of foals aren't advertised. I think if you look around to some breeders with good programs and good mares you'll find there will be plenty for sale for less then your price range.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
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    Apr. 11, 2006
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    Ontario, Canada
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    I just read a comment you posted while I was preparing my post. Restricting the search to proven performance mares seriously really limits your options. Many of us won't go down the road of ET because of the extra costs. It easily adds 5000 plus on average to the production of the foal if not more. Once these mares are aged and retired from competition the bloodlines may be old news and fertility is depressed. I rather breed a young mare of exceptional bloodlines then an old girl even with an FEI show record. The foals from those FEI level performance mares are very rare and the breeders are often the owners of those mares while they were in competition and are less likely to let those foals go for market value.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
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    Jan. 19, 2005
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    PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dev.R View Post
    Yes, what I want will be expensive when it is older and should be pricey now, but I do feel like a foal should not be of equal price of it when it is 3 years old and started under-saddle.
    That isn't that surprising. I know that my own baby horses...I'm not changing the sale price for them much from yearling to 3. Honestly...other than unexpected vet bills....they just plain do not cost me as much to keep while they are growing. Most breeders are not boarding their horses but have their own farms. Now once I've put some time getting them green broke AND if they live up to the quality that I previously thought of them...then their price will go up. Once they show...it may go up again. But if I've started them...and they proven difficult undersaddle....well, the price may not go up Once they are started, buyers can sit on them and evaluate them differently than just looking at a pretty mover in the field (for better or worse depending!)

    But no...you will not see a big price change often between a foal and a 2 or 3 year old. The major cost went into that foal to get it on the ground.....and let's face it. 2-3 year olds can be ugly ducklings that not all buyers can see past. So yeah...they will be priced where they are when on the ground (or perhaps higher after an inspection or large show in hand) and that price often doesn't change much until you put the next larger chunk of time and money into them which is typically at 3 or 4.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    Apr. 30, 2009
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    Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dev.R View Post
    I understand where you are coming from, and I am not trying to get a foal for some crazy low price. I just don't fully understand the large difference I see sometimes in prices between foals of similar quality (even including the import costs) and I am trying to understand why, which I don't think is a bad thing. But I know the stallions I like are expensive, that some foals will be ET because I want a performance mare and that increases the price, the breeder should make a profit, the vet bills the breeder incur and so on. Yes, what I want will be expensive when it is older and should be pricey now, but I do feel like a foal should not be of equal price of it when it is 3 years old and started under-saddle.
    The good foals are not cheap in Europe either....even before the 8k import fee. There is a lot of average horses with great bloodlines. I have seen horse go at an elite auction that wouldn't have brought half the price if it was in someone's field here for sale.
    But the good horses, and everyone seems to know which ones those are in Europe, are still worth good money. It is hard to find a 2 year old in Europe that people do not recognize the quality and is priced accordingly. They have a lot of horses to choose from and are not as easily impressed by great bloodlines. In other words I don't think they have better prices for horses. Just more availability.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
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    Jul. 16, 2011
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    I understand that, as my own mare is an ET that was out a GP dressage mare that was out of a GP dressage stallion. And that is not a requirement, it would be nice but is more of a suggestion as why I think a price could be much higher.
    Quote Originally Posted by vandenbrink View Post
    I just read a comment you posted while I was preparing my post. Restricting the search to proven performance mares seriously really limits your options. Many of us won't go down the road of ET because of the extra costs. It easily adds 5000 plus on average to the production of the foal if not more. Once these mares are aged and retired from competition the bloodlines may be old news and fertility is depressed. I rather breed a young mare of exceptional bloodlines then an old girl even with an FEI show record. The foals from those FEI level performance mares are very rare and the breeders are often the owners of those mares while they were in competition and are less likely to let those foals go for market value.



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