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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 11, 2007
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    Default If you lease your horse out, are you prepared to take it back at anytime?

    I have a horse that I'm trying to sell so I can buy something more suitable. My horses are at home and the other 2 are retired and not going anywhere. I only have capacity for 3, I could do 4 but it would stress my pastures and my barn situation.

    I keep having inquiries on my horse from people who want to lease or free lease. I'm not opposed to doing that *if* it is to a person/barn/trainer I know, but if I get another horse, I wouldn't have room to take my current horse back. So it got me thinking, how do you peeps who lease your horses out handle this? I'd think if you board it'd be even more problematic. Just curious, my mind is pretty set on selling him at this point but I'm looking into all my options in case that doesn't happen.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2006
    Location
    Arizona
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    Default

    I just delivered my horse who is now on lease with an option to buy at the end of the short term lease. It's really a trial; but, horse has to be maintained with the person I take lessons from and care is to my requirements. By its very nature I do have to be prepared to take him back; but, there's also every likelihood that he'll be leased again if the sale doesn't go through. He's sound and upper level so that helps a lot; but, every lease I've entered into I knew there would come a point where I would have to take the horse back. In reality that's only happened once and I was able to put him in another lease within 2 months. I've been very lucky because most of my lease situations have worked out very well.
    Ranch of Last Resort
    www.annwylid.com



  3. #3
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    Jan. 8, 2006
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    B.C. Canada
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    Default

    Yes.
    Leasors change their minds all the time - I'm always prepared to take a horse back before the end of the lease if it's required. Its still my horse and thusly in the end I'm still responsible for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by ExJumper View Post
    Sometimes I'm thrown off, sometimes I'm bucked off, sometimes I simply fall off, and sometimes I go down with the ship. All of these are valid ways to part company with your horse.


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  4. #4
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    Feb. 1, 2008
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    Nowhere, Maryland
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    Default

    You can make the contract for anything that works for you and the leasee (i.e. one year lease, requires x amount of notice to terminate, etc.) but realistically, yes you must be prepared to take the horse back at any time if it should become injured/ unsound/ unsuitable, or if the leasee loses their job, etc . If you absolutely can't afford to keep two horses I would not risk it.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    16,647

    Default

    I had a horse out on lease a couple of years ago and when I saw the photos from his second event, I brought him home. I was one over for a while and had to rotate stalls...but that's the way it goes. So, yes, you have to be prepared to have it all go south.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May. 5, 2006
    Posts
    2,730

    Default

    When I leased my prior gelding out (on a free lease), it was written into the contract that we were each due a 30 day notice of contract termination. So if I wanted to end the lease, I had to give her 30 days notice that I was taking him back. Of course, I had the right to remove him without any notice if I thought his health or welfare was in danger. If she wished to end the contract, she had to give me a 30 day notice.

    As a boarder, I needed that time to find him an appropriate barn. She did end up ending the lease a year into it, simply because she wanted to buy a horse and he wasn't for sale.

    Of course, the contract is only as good as a person's intention to follow it. I went into the lease knowing that I could end up with him back on no notice at all. It is just one of the risks you take. I did have a back up plan in case I needed to house him without notice.
    Sheilah


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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
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    14,888

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rainechyldes View Post
    Yes.
    Leasors change their minds all the time - I'm always prepared to take a horse back before the end of the lease if it's required. Its still my horse and thusly in the end I'm still responsible for it.
    Me, too.

    Part of the benefits of leasing is being able to get out of it.

    I suppose the lessor could right a contract that somehow punished the lessee for returning the horse early. But I think it would suck in practice. I can't see getting that money unless a lease fee was charged up front and both sides agreed the lessor keeps it, no matter what.

    But you really don't want a horse you like or value to be in the hands of someone who doesn't want him and resents having to pay for his care.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,185

    Default

    Yep, in fact I just picked up my pony who was out for two years. My contract states that I have 30 days. I'm now short a stall (thank god for a well-behaved gelding who will stay out overnight in the quarantine run-in by himself), but you do what you gotta do. It's inconvenient, but I love my pony and am pleased that he came right back to me instead of being passed along. (As per the terms of the contract, but I'm just saying if I had sold/given him away.)

    Also took back a badly foundered mare who had been SOLD five years earlier. And I hate this mare. And just because she's spiteful (and I dumped considerable amount into my vet's bank account) she's made a great recovery and should live for many more years to come. -sigh- But you do what you gotta do.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2007
    Posts
    839

    Default

    When I was leasing out, yes. I did have an early return fee to help discourage early return and offset cost, but I was prepared to take back whenever.

    When my circumstances changed, and I started boarding, I sold the horse I was leasing out since I would no longer be able to take him back whenever.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2005
    Location
    NY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post

    But you really don't want a horse you like or value to be in the hands of someone who doesn't want him and resents having to pay for his care.
    Or isn't riding like you informed them they had to and complaining that he's now lame and needs injections [he didn't]
    Not to mention the craptastic care they might providing a horse, you know like forgetting water and hay?
    It never ceases to amaze what people will pull or how incredibly stupid people can be, particularly with something they do not own or pay anything for... which is why free-leasing is, IMO, a bad idea.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 23, 2001
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    Catharpin, Virginia
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    Default

    As an aside, I've never met anyone who leased their horse -- and the lessor wanted out of the lease, but was not allowed to do so -- where the horse didn't come back to the owner in poor physical shape and with feet that had been neglected.

    If the lessor has no interest in the horse anymore, many people will cut their cost in feed, hay and care -- and it is always the poor horse that pays.
    Last edited by sid; Apr. 13, 2013 at 05:10 PM. Reason: typos



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2006
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    1,909

    Default

    I have free leased before. I took good care of their horse, I was so worried they would think I didn't take care of her! I have leased out two horses... One came home and cost me thousands in vet bills and was never totally around again, the other was a broodmare lease and I almost felt guilty taking her home! That woman loved her and treated her like the princess she is, I would lease her a horse in a second. The second time she had insurance on the horse, first one no. I would insist on insurance on any lease and make them come ride the horse a few times at your farm before leasing out, I would also prefer to go see the barn the horse will be at.

    With the mare I leased she was downsizing and had moved and when I wanted out (decided not to breed her and went from leasing a barn to boarding) I couldn't get out. I had to find two leases for the horse for several years. It is what it is and her owner was/is fantastic but IMO you do need to be prepared to take the horse back.

    That doesn't mean at your farm... Even as long as you could afford to pasture board it somewhere until you can sell or lease again, whatever.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec. 16, 2010
    Posts
    214

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by magicteetango View Post
    I have leased out two horses... One came home and cost me thousands in vet bills and was never totally around again,
    Just curious (don't mean to hijack the thread), but if/when you all checked up on your horses that are leased out, what did you all look for? Do any of you ever ride your horse (not all the time, but like once every few months) just to make sure they are still sound and going well undersaddle, to avoid any vet or training problems that you may have to handle when the lease ends?



  14. #14
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    Nov. 15, 2005
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    NY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kdash1228 View Post
    Just curious (don't mean to hijack the thread), but if/when you all checked up on your horses that are leased out, what did you all look for?
    At the time I had owned my horse for almost 15 years. I know him, I just need to look at him to know how he is doing, and how he is being cared for... except for the time I came out to wrap him [long story] in standing wraps and found him in his stall with a dry [not just empty but DRY] bucket and not the tiniest sprig of hay in his stall... *headdesk*
    Quote Originally Posted by Kdash1228 View Post
    Do any of you ever ride your horse (not all the time, but like once every few months) just to make sure they are still sound and going well undersaddle, to avoid any vet or training problems that you may have to handle when the lease ends?
    I did ride him while she was leasing [for exactly what you describe- keeping tabs on his training and soundness]...

    ...and then exclusively after this teen-
    who had about 4 years exp taking once a week lessons-
    told me my horse needed injections [for a weak stifle I had thoroughly explained to her and her mentor and shared with them how to keep it fit] and stopped riding him [while not decreasing his grain as instructed due to his propensity to tie-up]

    My poor horse.
    More than the 'slap in the face' from a family friend who should have taken better care of my heart horse I kindly offered this kid... more than the let down of realizing someone you thought highly of is stoopid, disrespectful, and ignorant... the ability of these people to not care one iota for my oh-so-kind to this kid horse was what made me physically ill.
    All things being equal, HE deserved better.
    That they couldn't see that is why I would never, ever lease out my own horse ever again. Ever.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2006
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    8,508

    Default

    I am prepared to take the horse back at anytime. I have several places I could send a horse if push came to shove, so I would either send the horse someplace temporary or take it back to my place.

    I had one horse leased out for two years. Firstly, I always made the leaser pay several months ahead. So the beginning of the lease was a four or five month sum, and then each month she would pay until the lease fee ran out. Thus the last few months of the lease I would already have been paid.

    At the end of the second year, she indicated that she would not be renewing. I simply said, fine, let me know when I can pick him up, do you want him to the end of this month or the end of next one. You are already paid through the next one. She picked the next one. In the interim, I found someone else who was willing to take the horse on trial and had several backup plans for him with friends if necessary.

    A week before the end of the chosen month I called the trainer to make pick up arrangements. She expressed surprise that the horse was leaving. I said, not my problem your customer's don't communicate with you, my horse will be sitting there unpaid for as of the 1st so I'm a-comin'.

    She said oh but she couldn't DO that weekend. I said, that's fine, I know what he looks like, put him in the front stall and I'll get him. She said oh no her driveway is too difficult for me to navigate by myself. What kind of trailer am I sending her driveway can't handle a big rig (wtf? the horse LEADS fine. Lead it to the road then. It has legs that work). I said, I have a 1990 two horse arndt. It is the size of a smart car. It will fit. She was still in no way shape or form going to let me drive down her driveway unsupervised, and apparently there is no barn help or helpful boarder or friend within a 50 mile radius who could meet me that evening instead. I asked.

    So I told her, that's fine, if you can't be there that particular night and don't want me driving down your property unattended, I can arrange to have someone else from a nearby local barn pick him up at a time that's good for you, and then I will pay his bill there and come pick him up from their place when I can get him. I promptly had Anne Kursinski who I had never met/talked to before on the phone (no seriously) because Market Street is within a 15 miles radius of where the horse was, could I board him with her for a few days if necessary, who did she recommend for local shippers or a few days board. In the meantime, I started calling around to the sheriffs and court houses in that county for an injunction and an order. I didn't mention the injunction wheels turning to the trainer, but I set the process in motion quietly since I WAS COMIN'. FOR THAT HORSE. Trainer meanwhile considered the option of having Anne Kursinki or one of her minions roll down the driveway for him earlier in the week though, and then said I could pick him up on the day I wanted to come for him after all. I said "Perfect! See you then!" Yeah, that's what I thought.

    She said she maybe could get people to look at him, she had "buyers coming". I said, "That's fine. You have until I show up, which is when the lease fee is paid up til. After that he lives at your place on your bill. Also you can start paying the lease fee." The potential buyers never showed, hm. Meanwhile I had someone waiting in Massachussetts to try the horse to buy, after his lease month in PA has duly expired (counting the days, people. counting the days).

    The trainer said, but we love him so much (in which case, BUY HIM), and we thought what with you being all the way in Buffalo and having your other horses.... Yeah, no. I told her, "Whenever I have a horse out I am always ready to take it back on immediate notice. I will hop in my trailer and go get it anytime." She thought that was a "very aggressive statement." I didn't care.

    So the much anticipated Saturday rolled around. I got in my trailer and first left Buffalo for the Finger Lakes Track to pick up an entirely unrelated horse and bring it back to my barn. I then got in the truck (it is now noon), and drove the empty trailer to PA, arriving after dark (this was winter). I spent an hour at her place getting lectured on how to wrap and blanket and trailer my own horse, my trailer was appraised critically, etc. I cared not a whit I loaded him right up. Interestingly after this extensive dissertation on Best Trailering Practices she sent me on the road with the same damn Coggins the horse arrived with two years ago. OH WELL, I just made a mental note without saying anything that if I get fined all bills are getting sent to the previous leaser and you. I commenced the drive to Massachussetts, where I arrived at 1am, and the following day drove the 8 hours back to Buffalo. I would have pulled into that god damn driveway (which for the record I navigated just fine) with the sheriff in tow and the lights flashing if I had to wake up the county judge to do it.

    When I have a horse out, BELIEVE YOU ME, I am prepared to come and get it anytime. Any attempts to mess with me on this will have you swiftly realizing that is like trying to get a freight train to stop by waving at it. When I toot my whistle that I'm coming for a horse, put down the railroad crossing arms and step aside. Train's a-comin'. Get your @$$ off the tracks.
    Last edited by meupatdoes; Apr. 18, 2013 at 04:19 AM.


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  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2006
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    meupadoes.... You are a complete F-ing badass.

    Much respect to you.


    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    I am prepared to take the horse back at anytime. I have several places I could send a horse if push came to shove, so I would either send the horse someplace temporary or take it back to my place.

    I had one horse leased out for two years. Firstly, I always made the leaser pay several months ahead. So the beginning of the lease was a four or five month sum, and then each month she would pay until the lease fee ran out. Thus the last few months of the lease I would already have been paid.

    At the end of the second year, she indicated that she would not be renewing. I simply said, fine, let me know when I can pick him up, do you want him to the end of this month or the end of next one. You are already paid through the next one. She picked the next one. In the interim, I found someone else who was willing to take the horse on trial and had several backup plans for him with friends if necessary.

    A week before the end of the chosen month I called the trainer to make pick up arrangements. She expressed surprise that the horse was leaving. I said, not my problem your customer's don't communicate with you, my horse will be sitting there unpaid for as of the 1st so I'm a-comin'.

    She said oh but she couldn't DO that weekend. I said, that's fine, I know what he looks like, put him in the front stall and I'll get him. She said oh no her driveway is too difficult for me to navigate by myself. What kind of trailer am I sending her driveway can't handle a big rig (wtf? the horse LEADS fine. Lead it to the road then. It has legs that work). I said, I have a 1990 two horse arndt. It is the size of a smart car. It will fit. She was still in no way shape or form going to let me drive down her driveway unsupervised, and apparently there is no barn help or helpful boarder or friend within a 50 mile radius who could meet me that evening instead. I asked.

    So I told her, that's fine, if you can't be there that particular night and don't want me driving down your property unattended, I can arrange to have someone else from a nearby local barn pick him up at a time that's good for you, and then I will pay his bill there and come pick him up from their place when I can get him. I promptly had Anne Kursinski who I had never met/talked to before on the phone (no seriously) because Market Street is within a 15 miles radius of where the horse was, could I board him with her for a few days if necessary, who did she recommend for local shippers or a few days board. In the meantime, I started calling around to the sheriffs and court houses in that county for an injunction and an order. I didn't mention the injunction wheels turning to the trainer, but I set the process in motion quietly since I WAS COMIN'. FOR THAT HORSE. Trainer meanwhile considered the option of having Anne Kursinki or one of her minions roll down the driveway for him earlier in the week though, and then said I could pick him up on the day I wanted to come for him after all. I said "Perfect! See you then!" Yeah, that's what I thought.

    She said she maybe could get people to look at him, she had "buyers coming". I said, "That's fine. You have until I show up, which is when the lease fee is paid up til. After that he lives at your place on your bill. Also you can start paying the lease fee." The potential buyers never showed, hm. Meanwhile I had someone waiting in Massachussetts to try the horse to buy, after his lease month in PA has duly expired (counting the days, people. counting the days).

    The trainer said, but we love him so much (in which case, BUY HIM), and we thought what with you being all the way in Buffalo and having your other horses.... Yeah, no. I told her, "Whenever I have a horse out I am always ready to take it back on immediate notice. I will hop in my trailer and go get it anytime." She thought that was a "very aggressive statement." I didn't care.

    So the much anticipated Saturday rolled around. I got in my trailer and first left Buffalo for the Finger Lakes Track to pick up an entirely unrelated horse and bring it back to my barn. I then got in the truck (it is now noon), and drove the empty trailer to PA, arriving after dark (this was winter). I spent an hour at her place getting lectured on how to wrap and blanket and trailer my own horse, my trailer was appraised critically, etc. I cared not a whit I loaded him right up. Interestingly after this extensive dissertation on Best Trailering Practices she sent me on the road with the same damn Coggins the horse arrived with two years ago. OH WELL, I just made a mental note without saying anything that if I get fined all bills are getting sent to the previous leaser and you. I commenced the drive to Massachussetts, where I arrived at 1am, and the following day drove the 8 hours back to Buffalo. I would have pulled into that god damn driveway (which for the record I navigated just fine) with the sheriff in tow and the lights flashing if I had to wake up the county judge to do it.

    When I have a horse out, BELIEVE YOU ME, I am prepared to come and get it anytime. Any attempts to mess with me on this will have you swiftly realizing that is like trying to get a freight train to stop by waving at it. When I toot my whistle that I'm coming for a horse, put down the railroad crossing arms and step aside. Train's a-comin'. Get your @$$ off the tracks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Martha Drum View Post
    ...But I don't want to sit helmetless on my horse while he lies on the ground kicking a ball around without a bridle while Leatherface does an interpretive dance with his chainsaw around us.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug. 17, 2004
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    Rixeyville, VA
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    6,456

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    OP, if you are not prepared to act as meupadoes, then I would stick to the plan of SELLING your horse. As a seller, I get queries about leases and free leases often enough. My reply is always the same: the horse is for sale.
    Where Norwegian Fjords Rule
    http://www.ironwood-farm.com


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2006
    Posts
    1,909

    Default

    I didn't check on my horse. He was fairly local, trainer had a very good reputation. He was a horrifically hard keeper so when I saw a photo where he was a bit on the lean side, I talked myself out of being worried. He didn't look neglected at that angle.

    A friend had seen him at a show and everyone was apparently commenting about how thin he was, when she heard I took him back she said Thank God I was going to follow him to his next show and if he wasn't any better yell you to pick him up.

    I will always feel guilty, it was all my fault. I spent all the money I needed to, I felt I owed it to him since it was all my fault. I later ran into her farrier who said he had never once trimmed my horse (he wouldn't get long he would flare out), and piecing it together it was a terrible program for him. I still feel awful.

    So yes. Check them all the time, no matter what. Go ride them. Whatever you can do.



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