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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    Any successes enjoyed by the rara's to date is due to their target audience being others like themselves. So many have never been to a farm and have no clue where their food comes from. That is why so many rara's still believe that big corporations really do grow chickens with no bones! Most are 'professional students' who will never really be able to face the real world or support themselves.
    Yes I totally agree, many are from the "Gee why would you murder an animal when you can just get the meat from the grocery store"
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #162
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    Angela

    I don't know where I posted it here in Coth but I did some research on ?Kaufman plant? etc and the mayor and town and real estate agents. The real estate agents said the plants kept the prices down against the average..however they could not explain why they were still down 5 years later.
    The town was actually inhabited by many university graduates however there was also a large group that quit school at grade 9

    These were the average employees (non union) spoken of. After the plant with only and I repeat only 46 workers was closed two years later only 4 or 5 of those employees had located work and NOT in that town.

    Other towns have had a basic complaint..and this follows the slaughter industry and also the sour gas industry. Fumes...That is acknowledged and that is why a study for plant location is important.

    Lets look at taxes....the plants you quote did not pay more than 5 million on 12 million dollars was that what you posted?

    Other towns entered in negotiations with plants and they came out of it very well and the loss to the community and tax base was significant

    It would appear that in Texas they gave away the farm to get the plant...then they tried to absolve themselves of any culpabiltiy (or they would not get re-elected) so they had to blame someone...any one.

    Equine slaughter..taxes

    Gas
    Wages for auction house workers
    Taxes paid on revenues accrued by dealers selling the horses
    Taxes paid by transport company's and their drivers
    Taxes paid by slaughter plants on equipment (and those equipment providers paying employees)
    Taxes paid on shipping and packaging materials
    Taxes paid on slaughter plants for employee wages from electricians, plumber to kill operators
    Taxes paid to government workers for the processing of international export

    And so on.

    This is the same for the slaughter industry.

    it is a lot of money paid out through a variety of outlets.

    Fort MacLeod is VERY proud of the slaughter plant as they are GREAT corporate citizens.

    There were complaints about slaughter in general and the increase of crime however that "study" was by a Canadian gal and it sure had holes in it. Didn't even get a decent peer review.

    However there was a point of truth.Many of the workers, especially at Brooks,Ab had a large non english speaking Somalian community and the youth (children) did many times gravitate to drugs and illegal ventures.

    But that is no different than what happened in Detroit...I worked for the Boys and Girls Club Detroit at 13 mile and Woodward..children of immigrants both adults working at the plant..no child control

    THAT was not the fault of the industry. That was a social problem..the same with any slaughter plant


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #163
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    Yes I totally agree, many are from the "Gee why would you murder an animal when you can just get the meat from the grocery store"
    Maybe not a joke after all?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Equine slaughter..taxes

    Gas
    Wages for auction house workers
    Taxes paid on revenues accrued by dealers selling the horses
    Taxes paid by transport company's and their drivers
    Taxes paid by slaughter plants on equipment (and those equipment providers paying employees)
    Taxes paid on shipping and packaging materials
    Taxes paid on slaughter plants for employee wages from electricians, plumber to kill operators
    Taxes paid to government workers for the processing of international export

    And so on.
    So according to your tax math, the U.S. citizens should not have to pay for the USDA inspectors with their tax money. Right?????

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Who knows...maybe wayne is already spending money on these extermination facilities in the U.S.


    And you have to wonder why you are not being taken seriously.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #166
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    Greenville, MI,
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Maybe not a joke after all?
    I know it isn't It was too hard to believe when I first read it.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  7. #167
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    Jun. 30, 2006
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    SF Bay Area, California
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Other towns entered in negotiations with plants and they came out of it very well and the loss to the community and tax base was significant.
    Please provide supporting data.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


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  8. #168
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    We removed some personal commentary and the responses to it. Please keep the discussion focused on the main topic and not other posters.

    Mod 1



  9. #169
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    Wow, It must have been nasty if the mods have to DELETE the comments and the replies.
    Okay so now are we playing nice, or are we putting this one to bed.?
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  10. #170
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    Jun. 19, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    So according to your tax math, the U.S. citizens should not have to pay for the USDA inspectors with their tax money. Right?????
    You are demanding extra charges against the equine slaughter plant BECAUSE you want them discriminated against so they might decide not to open.

    Slipper slope...Maybe there should be extra inspection and cleansing charges put against ALL exports of U.S. vegetables due to e-coli


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    Please provide supporting data.
    ..Locate all of the plants in the U.S. Then contact each county and find out what the tax rate was and did it apply to the slaughter industry. Ask if they paid extra for any water use and also for any disposal?

    The mill rate will reflect what is average for the square footage however you might have to probe some more and look for extra taxation charges.

    I am pleased you, as a once upon a time journalist, have decided to ask COTHER's how to do research. Many of us are happy to help.

    You can also apply for any freedom of information and usually that is available at $1,50 per page so make sure you ask precise questions.

    There is more to independent research than trying to bait a person into doing the work for you.

    Providing five to ten year old first page google search results is not considered to be research no matter how many students are trying to get away with it. The following is a result from a first page google research.

    Sophistication..don't eat animals with names..HSUS REFUSING to acknowledge the changes made to Canadian plantsand just spreading fear


    We are more sophisticated than that,” said Hamilton as she finished her lunch break at Martin’s Capitol Cafe, a Mexican and American food restaurant downtown. “I hate to think we’ve sunk that low.”

    Horse slaughter is inherently inhumane, even in comparison to pig, lamb, cow or chicken processing, said Nancy Perry, a lobbyist with the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals in Washington. Unlike cattle, which tend to remain stationary while being stunned, horses will move their heads, which can leave animals conscious while they’re being dismembered, she said.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #172
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    Nov. 15, 2005
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    ..Locate all of the plants in the U.S. Then contact each county and find out what the tax rate was and did it apply to the slaughter industry. Ask if they paid extra for any water use and also for any disposal?

    The mill rate will reflect what is average for the square footage however you might have to probe some more and look for extra taxation charges.

    I am pleased you, as a once upon a time journalist, have decided to ask COTHER's how to do research. Many of us are happy to help.

    You can also apply for any freedom of information and usually that is available at $1,50 per page so make sure you ask precise questions.

    There is more to independent research than trying to bait a person into doing the work for you.

    Providing five to ten year old first page google search results is not considered to be research no matter how many students are trying to get away with it. The following is a result from a first page google research.

    Sophistication..don't eat animals with names..HSUS REFUSING to acknowledge the changes made to Canadian plantsand just spreading fear


    We are more sophisticated than that,” said Hamilton as she finished her lunch break at Martin’s Capitol Cafe, a Mexican and American food restaurant downtown. “I hate to think we’ve sunk that low.”

    Horse slaughter is inherently inhumane, even in comparison to pig, lamb, cow or chicken processing, said Nancy Perry, a lobbyist with the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals in Washington. Unlike cattle, which tend to remain stationary while being stunned, horses will move their heads, which can leave animals conscious while they’re being dismembered, she said.
    Interesting that you can find and post a quote when it behooves you... I guess we can assume the other times you've insisted your inability to do so was because of dial up were not completely truthful and instead the inability for the supporting information to actually be located?


    'However there was a point of truth.Many of the workers, especially at Brooks,Ab had a large non english speaking Somalian community and the youth (children) did many times gravitate to drugs and illegal ventures.

    But that is no different than what happened in Detroit...I worked for the Boys and Girls Club Detroit at 13 mile and Woodward..children of immigrants both adults working at the plant..no child control

    THAT was not the fault of the industry. That was a social problem..the same with any slaughter plant'

    Actually it is in part because of the plant. If the plant paid livable wages w/benefits such that one parent working there could support the family, instead of both parents working there, and the kids being unsupervised and getting into trouble.

    Wasn't it you who said that the jobs at the plants are well sought after, good paying jobs that we need in the US?
    But they don't pay such that one adult working there can support their family?
    Sorry, but I don't call that a good job, or one that pays well. It certainly not what the US needs to solve our economic and employment woes.

    What we see, often, with jobs that only immigrants will take, is that it's not a quality job with good pay and benefits that communities want to bring to their areas but the jobs no one wants and that's when immigrants arrive to save the day and keep our onions affordable.



  13. #173
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    Jul. 1, 2011
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    It is asking quite a bit to expect a SH to pay wages so enormous as to support the man's wife and several children. Look around, how many jobs are available in the US which can pay that much! Are you going to try to ban walmart, gas stations, restaurants? The selective indignation is completely irrational! Next, I suppose you'll come up with some ancient statistic that shows more mares go to SH so that is sexist and must be stopped?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #174
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    Jun. 19, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    Interesting that you can find and post a quote when it behooves you... I guess we can assume the other times you've insisted your inability to do so was because of dial up were not completely truthful and instead the inability for the supporting information to actually be located?


    'However there was a point of truth.Many of the workers, especially at Brooks,Ab had a large non english speaking Somalian community and the youth (children) did many times gravitate to drugs and illegal ventures.

    But that is no different than what happened in Detroit...I worked for the Boys and Girls Club Detroit at 13 mile and Woodward..children of immigrants both adults working at the plant..no child control

    THAT was not the fault of the industry. That was a social problem..the same with any slaughter plant'

    Actually it is in part because of the plant. If the plant paid livable wages w/benefits such that one parent working there could support the family, instead of both parents working there, and the kids being unsupervised and getting into trouble.

    Wasn't it you who said that the jobs at the plants are well sought after, good paying jobs that we need in the US?
    But they don't pay such that one adult working there can support their family?
    Sorry, but I don't call that a good job, or one that pays well. It certainly not what the US needs to solve our economic and employment woes.

    What we see, often, with jobs that only immigrants will take, is that it's not a quality job with good pay and benefits that communities want to bring to their areas but the jobs no one wants and that's when immigrants arrive to save the day and keep our onions affordable.
    A starting wage at Lakeside is $14.00 per hour and with OT it is $21.00

    As with any industry the more employees, the more expensive rents become (supply and demand) and housing shortages occur.

    (Oil Sands..Fort McMurray...a "worker" on the rigs will rent a room for 8 hours. No cooking...shower and bed and you must provide your owns sheets etc. That room can cost as much as $200 PER DAY..supply and demand)

    Lakeside employees 2600 workers at Brooks

    Lets take a look at a check in agent for the airlines. In the U.S. with Southern Airlines A lady I know is a check in agent and her starting wage was $12.45 per hour and she was only able to work part time. After four years she was able to secure full time employment and by that time her wage had increased to $15.60 per hour. Yes, she does have benefits..(as do slaughter workers..and in Canada that is ALL medical benefits including family FOR FREE) As for Carrie she must pay for her own benefits with the airlines. She does have the benefit of travel passes however they still cost and one must still pay for accomodation when they arrive at their destination.

    An inflight attendant after 7 years will make $21.00 per hour based on a 36 hour work week.

    West Jet in Canada is the same...

    At the height of the boom in Calgary, A & W workers were getting paid $15.00 per hour PLUS they were receiving signing bonuses AND if they stayed at the job for 3 months they received an education credit of $500.00

    Now..that employment was hit with the bust..they are paid minimum wage which is about $10.60 per hour

    ALL industries pay according to market.

    As for my dial up...I guess you are lucky and have never been on it. I can click on a link and sometimes get a result in 1 minute and other times up to 5 minutes. If there is a link within a link it MAY or MAY NOT work.

    If you are only going to judge the value of a business by what it pays..then I guess Wall Mart and Cosco will have to close. No more Jack inthe Box...Or how about Arizona where an employer does not even have to give an excuse to fire a worker. They can discriminate. A worker at the American Express call center will earn just under $14.00 per hour AFTER they have been employed 36 months. NO benefits.

    Again, Angela..you just want to discrminate against slaughter as you have decided it is abuse...Life doesn't work that way...unless of course you are full time employee of HSUS...instead of a member who supports their pension heavy managerial packages.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #175
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    I think we can assume that the conditions at the U.S. plants (Kaufman and in Illinois) were very far from ideal, both from an employer/employee perspective and an environmental one.

    Now, if I were going to try to make a case FOR slaughter, I might stop beating that proverbial dead horse and try to show how things have dramatically improved in these ensuing years--instead of trying to rationalize that all was peachy keen and nothing was wrong.

    Why doesn't anyone acknowledge that there were a lot of things done that were wrong and that things will be improved this time? Or is it just that the old ways were good enough and why change anything at all?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    I think we can assume that the conditions at the U.S. plants (Kaufman and in Illinois) were very far from ideal, both from an employer/employee perspective and an environmental one.

    Now, if I were going to try to make a case FOR slaughter, I might stop beating that proverbial dead horse and try to show how things have dramatically improved in these ensuing years--instead of trying to rationalize that all was peachy keen and nothing was wrong.

    Why doesn't anyone acknowledge that there were a lot of things done that were wrong and that things will be improved this time? Or is it just that the old ways were good enough and why change anything at all?
    We have. I have clearly stated that the evolution of the corporate culture at Fort MacLeod did change, had to change and those changes are resulting in higher pay for workers, safer working conditions, increased productivity and humane treatment of the horses from the loading into the chute until the dead bolt.

    In the U.S. there are no plants available to show what can be done.

    There is no way I can guarantee U.S. plants WILL be 100 percent perfect in the same way there is no way an anti person can guarantee that no company will change the culture and make improvements and or changes.

    A lot hat been learned in the past seven years

    Opening plants are going to be under constant assault from Rara's and their supporters. Therefore they will have to exceed in many different areas. This is not just about equine slaughter but that is the first step because no one wants to eat Trigger and Fury


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  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    You are demanding extra charges against the equine slaughter plant BECAUSE you want them discriminated against so they might decide not to open.

    Slipper slope...Maybe there should be extra inspection and cleansing charges put against ALL exports of U.S. vegetables due to e-coli
    Easy for you to say since it's not YOUR tax dollar.

    And do tell, why should US tax payers subsidize the production of a food item to be exported to consumers in foreign counties where it is considered a delicacy; a food item that is not sold in this country.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


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  18. #178
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    Apr. 3, 2006
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    WE just saw the inside of the new/old plant in NM. Looks to be business as usual by reusing another cattle facility. Without regard to the difference in species.

    However if you are a cattle slaughter facility and always have been, how would you know.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Again, Angela..you just want to discrminate against slaughter as you have decided it is abuse...Life doesn't work that way...unless of course you are full time employee of HSUS...instead of a member who supports their pension heavy managerial packages.
    And you are missing the point that slaughter is not a service provided to allow people to rid themselves of their horses.
    The industry is catering to a DEMAND.

    As the demand decreases, so will the ability to be paid for your horse for slaughter.
    Doubtful that the horse owners are willing TO PAY the KB's/plants to take their horses.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    3 members found this post helpful.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Easy for you to say since it's not YOUR tax dollar.

    And do tell, why should US tax payers subsidize the production of a food item to be exported to consumers in foreign counties where it is considered a delicacy; a food item that is not sold in this country.
    Excellent point. Therefore the state of California should quit subsidizing the vegetable and fruit industries for their export of goods to Canada

    Or how about the "free phones" from your administration for the poor and also for FOREIGN poor..that was subsidized by your federal government as they claimed it allowed U.S. companies to gain access to foreigh markets and also provide employment for Americans IN AMERICA..(strage as the phones are manufactured in China and Korea)



    The U.S. Government has long encouraged logging on
    national forest land. One policy objective has been to create
    jobs in rural areas where few industries exist. The government
    provides latent subsidies to the wood industry by reimbursing
    contractors for costs incurred in building roads needed to get
    to logging tracts (among other reasons) thereby encouraging
    logging in remote, untouched areas.


    I have been unable to discover any subsidization for the equine slaughter industry. Inspections are or were required for all food products so that is not a subsidization..and as mentioned before..the rara crowd complained bitterly that if the slaughter plants paid for the inspections..they would be buying the silence of inspectors..and if the government paid for them..then it is a waste of tax payers money.

    I guess that is why the Rara's are so successful in recruiting 16-28 year olds with degrees in emotions but nothing in finance.

    There i smuch wate in every industry from manufacturing to military, agriculture to government contracts.

    For the rara movement to continue to just single out the EQUINE slaughter industry clearly demonstrates their lack of understanding of GDP


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