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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by up-at-5 View Post
    I would think that most people would be able to tell the difference between an owner shipping their horse to the nearest vet for treatment, whether it be a lovely trailer designed for hauling horses or a stock trailer used for many purposes on the farm, to that of an obviously lame(and it would have to be a visibly lame,sick horse, in amongst many others) to trigger cause for alarm...geez, I know you don't have much experience hauling horses, so really, don't be so paranoid! Your lack of knowledge when it comes to this sort of thing really shines through in your posts.
    False thinking, because those animal rights extremist plants as AC officers that would be stopping trailers are zealots that really don't know much about horses, as it show here about those that are posting in the name of such groups.

    Yes, we can tell where some information they present here is coming from, because it shows up here just as those groups make it known to their followers.

    What so many animal rights extremists and their defenders don't know or just don't want others to know is that many, many horses going to slaughter didn't use to go in trucks, but in trailers and many still do today.

    Trucks are only used for the very long trips, so long courtesy of animal rights extremists, when their drive to ban slaughter missed, but they still had it close thru the back door, by getting inspectors pulled and then, surprise, horses had to travel so much further, something that before happened rarely.

    I sure hope the world keeps letting the USA be such a rich country for long time, or some here are going to have a rude awakening some day and wish they had been a bit less sanguine about pushing their wasteful, illogical ideologies on the rest of us.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldpony66 View Post
    Since I don't live anywhere near a slaughterhouse that processes horses - but I HAVE lived near slaughterhouses that process cattle - I'm just going to have to toss this question out there...

    If cattle can be brought to a slaughterhouse in a small trailer, just a few at a time, why do horses have to be brought 30+ at a time, pulled by a commercial trailer "DOT and all that"?

    In fact, maybe it's just because I lived near rinky dink slaughter houses, but even though I saw the double-decker trailers, I saw quite a few... OK, a lot... of small trailers too. So I wouldn't rule out a 2 horse trailer from "hauling to slaughter".
    I'm guessing here, but I think it has to do with the location as well as how the slaughter house is run. The small hobby farmer needs to have someplace to have his cattle processed, and a rinky dink place would be the way to go.

    The haulers bringing horses to slaughter are kill buyers who buy enough horses to fill their rig. It wouldn't be cost effective for them to haul small loads of four or six. The only place I could see a smaller trailer go is to dump horses at an auction. Technically they aren't being hauled to slaughter even though it's quite likely their next trailer ride will be their last.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    I'm guessing here, but I think it has to do with the location as well as how the slaughter house is run. The small hobby farmer needs to have someplace to have his cattle processed, and a rinky dink place would be the way to go.

    The haulers bringing horses to slaughter are kill buyers who buy enough horses to fill their rig. It wouldn't be cost effective for them to haul small loads of four or six. The only place I could see a smaller trailer go is to dump horses at an auction. Technically they aren't being hauled to slaughter even though it's quite likely their next trailer ride will be their last.
    well, assumption is the other of all screw ups.

    If a law does not specify then guess what, it's bad.

    If the law does not say DOT rig, 18 wheeler, whatever, or shipped lose, not wrapped/blanketed, guess what: that means every single rig on the road!


    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=277091
    This is what can happen when you do nothing wrong. And you STILL have to defend yourself in court and pay a lawyer.

    You come back from a trail ride and Dobbins took a wrong step, you are shipping a lame horse, something certain people consider cruel.

    You buy a few weanlings that are not handled, or the horses ship better lose in the stock trailer or whatever reason, you are doing things your cronies find suspicious.

    The 'agent' looking at your rig dos not like lack of food/water/fly mask....you must be gong to the plant...

    Yes, this is reaching: thinking out worst case scenarios, how this 'wel intended' law could affect every day dealings with horses.

    You are ALL lieing to yourself when you think it is only going to be used to stop evil slaughter people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  4. #44
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    Hey, Alagirl, where did you get your law degree?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
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    I sure hope the world keeps letting the USA be such a rich country for long time, or some here are going to have a rude awakening some day and wish they had been a bit less sanguine about pushing their wasteful, illogical ideologies on the rest of us. Bluey! I wish so many people would type this out and put it on their fridge and remember it. This is a exactly right!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post

    Anyone can tell the difference between a private trailer and a slaughter transport with 30 horses or more in a trailer being pulled by a commercial vehicle (DOT and all that).

    Gee, you are really reaching, as usual.
    What about rodeo companies: they haul by the large trailerload and there are quite a few rodeo companies out there, with DOT registered trucks, many of which aren't painted up with the company name.

    Or how about the liveries in the western states? Many of those horses are hauled in by the large trailerload by commercial drivers....must be slaughter buyers, right? The place I worked for long ago hauled from Iowa to Colorado (they still do); many, many trips with semi-loads of horses hauled loose, shaggy from coming off winter pasture. I'm sure if you passed that trailer you would be making the wrong guess as to where they were headed. And the Y camps and most of the other liveries I knew haul by the large trailerload, including the largest livery service in CO.

    Easy to make an assumption that someone is reaching when you haven't seen it, but just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't regularly happen.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    Of course - every state needs more money somehow.
    not the state...SPCA, silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discobold View Post
    Hey, Alagirl, where did you get your law degree?
    I think that direct, personal attacks like that one are against the rules for posting here.

    Trying to keep the debates civil and somewhat on topic helps.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    What about rodeo companies: they haul by the large trailerload and there are quite a few rodeo companies out there, with DOT registered trucks, many of which aren't painted up with the company name.

    Or how about the liveries in the western states? Many of those horses are hauled in by the large trailerload by commercial drivers....must be slaughter buyers, right? The place I worked for long ago hauled from Iowa to Colorado (they still do); many, many trips with semi-loads of horses hauled loose, shaggy from coming off winter pasture. I'm sure if you passed that trailer you would be making the wrong guess as to where they were headed. And the Y camps and most of the other liveries I knew haul by the large trailerload, including the largest livery service in CO.

    Easy to make an assumption that someone is reaching when you haven't seen it, but just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't regularly happen.
    And the rodeo boys from out west and south haul into Louisville at least twice a year for shows at the Fairgrounds.
    They haul their horses and their equipment on the same truck. Sometimes DD's.

    Semis haul in the drafts for the draft horse show in November; the semis also carrying the hitches.

    So what?
    Their horses don't have slaughter tags attached to their butts last I checked.

    And again, someone provide us with something from NJ proving that the NJSPCA has been/is sitting on the highway waiting for horse trailers they can zoom in on.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
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    Boy some of you are ready to give up your rights pretty easily.
    I live in Ontario where there were slaughter houses many years ago. In fact I grew up in Owen Sound which actually was home to Barton's feeders which was a slaughter house. I know that a lot of horses were hauled there in two horse or 4 horse trailers. Of course there were also big rigs full too. To say that only big rigs carry slaughter bound horses is wrong.
    There are still slaughter houses opearating in Canada (as you all know) and I am sure that some horses are still brought in on small trailers if they are close enough to the SH.
    If SHs are reopened in the US how would the SPCA know which trailer is headed where?
    Do you really want them to have that much power?
    Just curious.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #51
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    You do realize that horses are classified as companion animals in Kentucky, right? They are not considered to be livestock. No earth shattering problems either because of the classification, although equine supplies and horse sales are taxable because of the classification.

    I don't really see them as companion animals either...maybe they need another classification altogether, like working animals.

    A side note for the spelling of lying. It is lying, not lieing. The red underline under the misspelled word is a clue.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dare1 View Post
    Boy some of you are ready to give up your rights pretty easily.
    I live in Ontario where there were slaughter houses many years ago. In fact I grew up in Owen Sound which actually was home to Barton's feeders which was a slaughter house. I know that a lot of horses were hauled there in two horse or 4 horse trailers. Of course there were also big rigs full too. To say that only big rigs carry slaughter bound horses is wrong.
    There are still slaughter houses opearating in Canada (as you all know) and I am sure that some horses are still brought in on small trailers if they are close enough to the SH.
    If SHs are reopened in the US how would the SPCA know which trailer is headed where?
    Do you really want them to have that much power?
    Just curious.
    The assumption would be 'guilty until proven otherwise' which would include a lot of legal fees.

    Of course, the next step wuld be, in order to be so kind ad save the state some money, to make the investigating instance prosecutor and judge as well, fines payable to them, plus of course cost in case of seizure. And if you lose your case, you automatically are a felon and forfit your right to animal ownership.

    http://www.naturalnews.com/038928_Ca...buse_pets.html
    http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/...d_asm_v98.html

    Since we all want a vet like her (known to see cats and dogs in practice) make decisions of whether or not the animal is well cared for:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=kWhmuUUeZKU
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    And the rodeo boys from out west and south haul into Louisville at least twice a year for shows at the Fairgrounds.
    They haul their horses and their equipment on the same truck. Sometimes DD's.

    Semis haul in the drafts for the draft horse show in November; the semis also carrying the hitches.

    So what?
    Their horses don't have slaughter tags attached to their butts last I checked.

    And again, someone provide us with something from NJ proving that the NJSPCA has been/is sitting on the highway waiting for horse trailers they can zoom in on.
    You also don't often haul from Iowa to Colorado by way of NJ.

    And horses being hauled to Y camps or to shows or as part of exhibitions [ie rodeos] in other states traveling through or to NJ would be required to have a valid coggins.
    Horses shipping to slaughter do not require a coggins.



  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    What about rodeo companies: they haul by the large trailerload and there are quite a few rodeo companies out there, with DOT registered trucks, many of which aren't painted up with the company name.

    Or how about the liveries in the western states? Many of those horses are hauled in by the large trailerload by commercial drivers....must be slaughter buyers, right? The place I worked for long ago hauled from Iowa to Colorado (they still do); many, many trips with semi-loads of horses hauled loose, shaggy from coming off winter pasture. I'm sure if you passed that trailer you would be making the wrong guess as to where they were headed. And the Y camps and most of the other liveries I knew haul by the large trailerload, including the largest livery service in CO.

    Easy to make an assumption that someone is reaching when you haven't seen it, but just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't regularly happen.
    You need a health cert with a final destination.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  15. #55
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    Yea right what was I smoking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    not the state...SPCA, silly.



  16. #56
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    Considering that Camelot (Frank Carper) is located in NJ, ships in horses from New Holland, has a weekly auction, has sellers and buyers coming and going all week (with trailers) and obviously hasn't had a problem with this NJSPCA "scheme", should stop the fear mongoring in it's tracks.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    4 members found this post helpful.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Considering that Camelot (Frank Carper) is located in NJ, ships in horses from New Holland, has a weekly auction, has sellers and buyers coming and going all week (with trailers) and obviously hasn't had a problem with this NJSPCA "scheme", should stop the fear mongoring in it's tracks.
    Not to mention a couple slaughter buyers do attend his sale and drive back to NY and other states with the horses bought from Frank.... Yeah those SPCA peeps are really on it on this one... *sarcasm*


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I think that direct, personal attacks like that one are against the rules for posting here.

    Trying to keep the debates civil and somewhat on topic helps.
    Interesting comment considering you have mocked my education and insulted my critical thinking capabilities on more than one occasion.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


    7 members found this post helpful.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    Interesting comment considering you have mocked my education and insulted my critical thinking capabilities on more than one occasion.
    Ah, but you see, you didn't realize...it's only a problem when you mock one of the 4 compadres and their hangers on.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    Interesting comment considering you have mocked my education and insulted my critical thinking capabilities on more than one occasion.
    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Ah, but you see, you didn't realize...it's only a problem when you mock one of the 4 compadres and their hangers on.
    Now hold your horses a minute, you two.

    Someone seemed to pick on Alagirl out of the blue and I stated my opinion that such is not right.

    Best I remember you are alluding to, when a while back I commented on one article being biased and that not be good journalism, certain poster disagreed and told me off, saying she had a degree in journalism.
    To that, I commented later that if so, maybe she ought to have known better.

    Now, how is that at all even close to the way someone, out of the blue, was treating Alagirl?

    I still say, lack of logic is par for the course with some, evidently.

    As for the comments on animal rights extremist groups, yes, they know they have an inroad with this administration and that is why they are making hay while the sun is shining, trying to get as much of their strange ideology furthered, to disrupt and impede at every turn all and any we do with animals.

    That is why we are seeing such a big push, their posters here and in other places, their lobbyist all over states and federal lawmakers and in the media as much as they can hog it.
    A veritable onslaught in their drive to push for a vegan world and one where the only animals are the species they approve of in the wild, the rest, "one generation and no more domestic animals and fine with me".
    Yes, that was said and repeated often, before such became too not quite PC.
    Even extremists can learn, they didn't make all those fortunes, get millions of donations a year to play with by being dumb.

    If you want to have animals to use, as the natural, renewable resource they are for us in this world, animals that made us who we are as humans and as a society, you better start learning all you can about these matters and yes, not just from one source, but study them all, before deciding who you want to support.

    These are not simple topics that may be dismissed with a soundbite news story, but take years to really understand, the ramifications can be very serious.

    Keep in mind in all this the very real and important difference between:

    -Animal rights: No more use of any animals by humans their ultimate goal.

    -Animal welfare: See to laws and regulations to insure that what we do is right for the situation at hand.
    See that true abuses are eliminated, mismanagement minimized, educate and just all that goes with USING animals.

    A very important difference there.



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