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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Oh, goody.

    So every time you shove a few horses in a stock trailer, they can pull you over.

    AND they get the fines?!
    Pfft, you can be stopped in Kentucky already and asked to show your health cert. No biggie.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    6 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
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    Jun. 28, 2003
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    I'd be less worried if it was the State Police or local police pulling you over asking if you were transporting to slaughter... but it's the SPCA who can decide to pull you over and fine you.

    How are you supposed to know to pull over for them? We are giving police powers to ASPCA... is the next step giving them cars with the flashing lights?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    Jan. 27, 2009
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    Horses are livestock not pets.
    Be careful what you wish for. If horses are considered pets, alot of people will suffer the consequences.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dare1 View Post
    Horses are livestock not pets.
    Be careful what you wish for. If horses are considered pets, alot of people will suffer the consequences.
    That is the intent of the current hard drive by animal rights extremists, to disrupt all we do with animals, horses included, passing hard to follow rules and regulations, impeding us at every place they can do so.
    Remember, "one generation and no more domestic animals and none too soon for me" was their mantra years ago, before that became a bit less PC as people started to wake up to them.

    I think that would be clear by now to the most naive of their followers.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
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    May. 17, 2010
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    Where humidity isn't just a word, it's a way of life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    Maybe he wants to put an end to the lies and deceit that seem to go hand and hand with horse slaughter.
    Change "horse slaughter" to "horse rescue".... follow the headlines and it seems rescues have just as many issues with lies and deceit, dead bodies, horrible deaths, etc.

    It's so easy to paint everyone involved with the same brush,
    but it's amazing when that brush is aimed at one's own industry how quickly the battle cry becomes
    "There are plenty of good ones out there!"
    "Only the bad stuff hits the news!"
    "Don't compare someone as great as X with someone like Y!!!!"

    Interesting how considering everyone in one industry to be the same only applies to the other guy.

    Both sides are constantly guilty of this, sigh.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
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    Jun. 19, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    Change "horse slaughter" to "horse rescue".... follow the headlines and it seems rescues have just as many issues with lies and deceit, dead bodies, horrible deaths, etc.

    It's so easy to paint everyone involved with the same brush,
    but it's amazing when that brush is aimed at one's own industry how quickly the battle cry becomes
    "There are plenty of good ones out there!"
    "Only the bad stuff hits the news!"
    "Don't compare someone as great as X with someone like Y!!!!"

    Interesting how considering everyone in one industry to be the same only applies to the other guy.

    Both sides are constantly guilty of this, sigh.
    Very well stated



  7. #27
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    Feb. 8, 2008
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    Delaware Valley
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    Interesting how considering everyone in one industry to be the same only applies to the other guy.

    Both sides are constantly guilty of this, sigh.
    That is an inaccurate and unfair generalization. I'm far from perfect, but I have NEVER, NEVER defended a bad rescue. These are just handful of the many threads in which I have spoken out about bad rescues or offered advice, including suggestions as to how the bad rescues could be prosecuted:

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ed-in-WV/page7

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ed-in-WV/page7

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...-mistake/page6

    http://vb4test.chronofhorse.com/foru...NY-AG-sues-TRF


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Pfft, you can be stopped in Kentucky already and asked to show your health cert. No biggie.
    Health certificate.
    Yes, that is common.

    But hey, now you have to prove where you are going.
    Now HOW do you do that?

    And BTW, a question I had a while ago: If you can't ship lame and injured horses - to slaughter - how do you think it will work out when the SPCA is now pulling over trailers, Say, on the way to the vet clinic? Or from an even where Dobbins took a bad step or did something stupid....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett



  9. #29
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    Sep. 11, 2008
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    Snohomish, WA
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    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    Change "horse slaughter" to "horse rescue".... follow the headlines and it seems rescues have just as many issues with lies and deceit, dead bodies, horrible deaths, etc.

    It's so easy to paint everyone involved with the same brush,
    but it's amazing when that brush is aimed at one's own industry how quickly the battle cry becomes
    "There are plenty of good ones out there!"
    "Only the bad stuff hits the news!"
    "Don't compare someone as great as X with someone like Y!!!!"

    Interesting how considering everyone in one industry to be the same only applies to the other guy.

    Both sides are constantly guilty of this, sigh.



  10. #30
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    Sep. 11, 2008
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    Snohomish, WA
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    The SPCA is the scary part.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Health certificate.
    Yes, that is common.

    But hey, now you have to prove where you are going.
    Now HOW do you do that?

    And BTW, a question I had a while ago: If you can't ship lame and injured horses - to slaughter - how do you think it will work out when the SPCA is now pulling over trailers, Say, on the way to the vet clinic? Or from an even where Dobbins took a bad step or did something stupid....



  11. #31
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    Jun. 27, 2005
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    KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Health certificate.
    Yes, that is common.

    But hey, now you have to prove where you are going.
    Now HOW do you do that?
    The National Animal Identification System would require you to do just that.

    "The primary purpose of a national identification system is to address animal health emergencies. The national program affects all livestock groups, including horses. While the initial focus has been on food livestock, other industry groups are expected to develop their own national identification plan for future participation. Horses are susceptible to several diseases which are foreign to the United States and would possibly be a cause for concern in regard to human and horse health."

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    And BTW, a question I had a while ago: If you can't ship lame and injured horses - to slaughter - how do you think it will work out when the SPCA is now pulling over trailers, Say, on the way to the vet clinic? Or from an even where Dobbins took a bad step or did something stupid....
    Anyone can tell the difference between a private trailer and a slaughter transport with 30 horses or more in a trailer being pulled by a commercial vehicle (DOT and all that).

    Gee, you are really reaching, as usual.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Jun. 30, 2006
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    SF Bay Area, California
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Anyone can tell the difference between a private trailer and a slaughter transport with 30 horses or more in a trailer being pulled by a commercial vehicle (DOT and all that).

    Gee, you are really reaching, as usual.
    Ah, excellent point! It's not that common to see a trailer full of loose horses going to a horse show. Heck, even the polo ponies are tied in their big stock type trailers.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
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    Dec. 31, 2000
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    El Paso, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    That is the intent of the current hard drive by animal rights extremists, to disrupt all we do with animals, horses included, passing hard to follow rules and regulations, impeding us at every place they can do so.
    Remember, "one generation and no more domestic animals and none too soon for me" was their mantra years ago, before that became a bit less PC as people started to wake up to them.

    I think that would be clear by now to the most naive of their followers.
    You're still using that quote taken out of context from 1993? And yet you and your pro slaughter buddies all complained about "old" quotes/videos from 2007-2010 that anti commercial slaughter people used in those threads? And complained that Temple Grandin's quotes were taken out of context when she said that she saw no way that horse slaughter in the US woukd be humane due to the cost, which the Slaughter houses wouldn't pay, and that every time she turns her back, humane violations occur. And that is on video...Not just part of a quote from 20 yrs ago, referring to heirloom cattle.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    The National Animal Identification System would require you to do just that.

    "The primary purpose of a national identification system is to address animal health emergencies. The national program affects all livestock groups, including horses. While the initial focus has been on food livestock, other industry groups are expected to develop their own national identification plan for future participation. Horses are susceptible to several diseases which are foreign to the United States and would possibly be a cause for concern in regard to human and horse health."



    Anyone can tell the difference between a private trailer and a slaughter transport with 30 horses or more in a trailer being pulled by a commercial vehicle (DOT and all that).

    Gee, you are really reaching, as usual.
    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    Ah, excellent point! It's not that common to see a trailer full of loose horses going to a horse show. Heck, even the polo ponies are tied in their big stock type trailers.

    It does not seem to specify in the NJ law whether or not professional or private rig or operator.
    Nor identification system.
    But of course, you now assume that only KBs ship their horses lose in the rig.


    And it puts the fox in charge, benefiting from the fines.
    You know how big the outcry is when rumors surface that troopers and cops get a kick back from tickets they write....this does not bother you?

    Or do you think you are magically immune, because you spread their agenda?

    Little hint:
    Read a bill by the letter, not by the intend you assume is behind it! The devil is in the detail and with the players who are pulling the strings, don't assume it's oversight!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
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    Aug. 5, 2007
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    1,259

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    Just a note regarding LIVESTOCK
    Please be aware that how you feel about your large herbivore has nothing to do with whether it is or should be livestock:
    Where it must be kept (not in a house, for instance) and whether it is useful (in an economic, not companionable sense) are the criteria for designating livestock.
    You can love and have companionable livestock that is also useful.

    I think it is possible to be against one 'use', such as slaughter, without in any way agreeing with moving toward 'companion' status vs. 'livestock' and I hope others can become very clear on this as well.



    Dictionary definitions

    "the horses, cattle, sheep, and other useful animals kept or raised on a farm or ranch"
    "Farm animals, with the exception of poultry. In Western countries the category encompasses primarily cattle, sheep, pigs, goats, horses, donkeys, and mules; other animals (e.g., buffalo, oxen, or camels) may predominate in other areas."

    "the horses, cattle, sheep, and other useful animals kept or raised on a farm or ranch."
    "cattle, horses, poultry, and similar animals kept for domestic use but not as pets, esp on a farm or ranch "

    "Livestock is usually defined to refer to horses, mares, mules, jacks, jennies, colts, cows, calves, yearlings, bulls, oxen, sheep, goats, lambs, kids, hogs, shoats and pigs.
    States regulate livestock to promote health and welfare and prevent damage and injury caused by their uncontrolled roaming on others' property. There often are statutes that regulate the obligations of livestock owners to keep their livestock off of public highways and that provide for liability when livestock wander onto the public road and collide with a motor vehicle or railway train. "
    http://definitions.uslegal.com/l/livestock/

    The 2 questions are 'Where does it live?' and 'Is it useful?'
    NOT do I enjoy being with it because I like the animal.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    Jun. 27, 2005
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    KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    It does not seem to specify in the NJ law whether or not professional or private rig or operator.
    Nor identification system.
    But of course, you now assume that only KBs ship their horses lose in the rig.

    This NJ legislation was signed into law in September of 2012.

    Provide us with some examples of any horse trailer pulling citizen being pulled over by the NJSPCA.

    And did they hire more staff just to sit on the road and wait for fair game?

    This fear mongering is really out of control - on all levels.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
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    Dec. 19, 2009
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    Pennsylvania
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Anyone can tell the difference between a private trailer and a slaughter transport with 30 horses or more in a trailer being pulled by a commercial vehicle (DOT and all that).

    Gee, you are really reaching, as usual.
    Since I don't live anywhere near a slaughterhouse that processes horses - but I HAVE lived near slaughterhouses that process cattle - I'm just going to have to toss this question out there...

    If cattle can be brought to a slaughterhouse in a small trailer, just a few at a time, why do horses have to be brought 30+ at a time, pulled by a commercial trailer "DOT and all that"?

    In fact, maybe it's just because I lived near rinky dink slaughter houses, but even though I saw the double-decker trailers, I saw quite a few... OK, a lot... of small trailers too. So I wouldn't rule out a 2 horse trailer from "hauling to slaughter".

    As far as health certificates "proving where you're going" in another post... I guess no one can really prove where you're going but when I get a health certificate, I'm asked to provide an address - right down to street address - where I'm going. I suppose if you provide the street address of a slaughterhouse then that proves you're transporting horses to slaughter. If you provide the street address of a horse show, clinic, trainer, state park, etc., and you are sufficiently en route then that should be proof enough.

    I am curious how an ASPCA "officer" is going to pull me over though.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #38
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    Sep. 11, 2008
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    Snohomish, WA
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    Yes exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by D_BaldStockings View Post
    Just a note regarding LIVESTOCK
    Please be aware that how you feel about your large herbivore has nothing to do with whether it is or should be livestock:
    Where it must be kept (not in a house, for instance) and whether it is useful (in an economic, not companionable sense) are the criteria for designating livestock.
    You can love and have companionable livestock that is also useful.

    I think it is possible to be against one 'use', such as slaughter, without in any way agreeing with moving toward 'companion' status vs. 'livestock' and I hope others can become very clear on this as well.



    Dictionary definitions

    "the horses, cattle, sheep, and other useful animals kept or raised on a farm or ranch"
    "Farm animals, with the exception of poultry. In Western countries the category encompasses primarily cattle, sheep, pigs, goats, horses, donkeys, and mules; other animals (e.g., buffalo, oxen, or camels) may predominate in other areas."

    "the horses, cattle, sheep, and other useful animals kept or raised on a farm or ranch."
    "cattle, horses, poultry, and similar animals kept for domestic use but not as pets, esp on a farm or ranch "

    "Livestock is usually defined to refer to horses, mares, mules, jacks, jennies, colts, cows, calves, yearlings, bulls, oxen, sheep, goats, lambs, kids, hogs, shoats and pigs.
    States regulate livestock to promote health and welfare and prevent damage and injury caused by their uncontrolled roaming on others' property. There often are statutes that regulate the obligations of livestock owners to keep their livestock off of public highways and that provide for liability when livestock wander onto the public road and collide with a motor vehicle or railway train. "
    http://definitions.uslegal.com/l/livestock/

    The 2 questions are 'Where does it live?' and 'Is it useful?'
    NOT do I enjoy being with it because I like the animal.



  19. #39
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    Aug. 4, 2009
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    MD
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    we do not support the inhumane process of slaughtering horses. We are not for banning slaughter.

    We grew up with fox hunting clubs, and riding stables all over the place here. This is not an area full of animal rights extremists. I highly doubt any "RARA" got to him. He's just trying to get involved in the horse heritage of this area. Perhaps incorrectly, but if he is interested, he will learn.
    Well said...when you BAN Slaughter you also create a worse situation of what to do with ALL unwanted, unsound, unuseable horses...and if he is not going to create affordable assisted euthanasia available with a disposal for ALL horses there will be an even bigger problem.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #40
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    Jan. 29, 2008
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    Ottawa,Ontario
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Health certificate.
    Yes, that is common.

    But hey, now you have to prove where you are going.
    Now HOW do you do that?

    And BTW, a question I had a while ago: If you can't ship lame and injured horses - to slaughter - how do you think it will work out when the SPCA is now pulling over trailers, Say, on the way to the vet clinic? Or from an even where Dobbins took a bad step or did something stupid....
    I would think that most people would be able to tell the difference between an owner shipping their horse to the nearest vet for treatment, whether it be a lovely trailer designed for hauling horses or a stock trailer used for many purposes on the farm, to that of an obviously lame(and it would have to be a visibly lame,sick horse, in amongst many others) to trigger cause for alarm...geez, I know you don't have much experience hauling horses, so really, don't be so paranoid! Your lack of knowledge when it comes to this sort of thing really shines through in your posts.
    "My doctrine is this, that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt.”
    ― Anna Sewell


    3 members found this post helpful.

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