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  1. #41
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    I'm not a Baffert fan either, but not because I think he's particularly dishonest. It appears to me that his training routine carries over from his QH days. Speed, speed, speed! Of course I don't keep track of all his horses, but more than one person has commented that he trains on them pretty hard. Him and ASSmussen seem to have the same type program.

    I did feel bad for him when he lost Richard's Kid. To have a top horse like that yanked out from under you to go to ONeil must have been embarrassing
    "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George

    What's the status on Tuco?



  2. #42
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    Horse must have ingested a HUGE amount of a very potent rat poison if that's what killed it. I know horses and dogs don't have much in common physiologically, but I have had dogs accidently eat rat poison, and none of them died from it. Of course, I treated for it immediately and made them vomit and then gave vitamin K for two weeks. Horses can't vomit, of course; but they are also several thousand times bigger than a rat and at least a hundred times bigger than a dog.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  3. #43
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    Nothing on point to add, except getting steeled for more garbage to hit racing, just before the Triple Crown dontcha know.

    And coincidentally, have just been thinking recently how I'd like to back away from racing, but don't know how. Others who have seen some not-so-nice realities when they got close have faded much earlier than I have. But I've loved this sport my entire life. Almost wish I could back-pedal to being ignorant.

    Just yesterday read a new blog entry from someone I have been onto for years as being a flat out liar, but who leads others like the pied piper. His credentials continue to be totally bogus, easily checked, but others still willing to drink the koolaid.

    Alternatively professionals with truly the highest credentials, with nothing but the best interest for the horses at heart - fail in their efforts to create "teams" or have the ability to market themselves in a grandiose style, leaving them broke and down-on-their-luck.

    And I frankly hate the press rushing to this sport this time of year, as often their investigations only go so far as to blow a whistle, get all the "racing is cruel" animal activists riled up, and everything confused and totally down the wrong path.

    Like others have noted on some of the forums - why all of a sudden is this being discussed NOW? Reported on NOW? Agree an investigation is warranted, and glad to see it's being looked into, and has been. But why is this out there NOW? To sell more advertising - as when racing is quiet, the following isn't adequate, is it?

    Like politics, racing is so bolluxed up, I'm not sure when it will ever be straightforward again. As I guess it only is when you only watch it on TV once a year.

    All those amazing Thoroughbreds...sigh...
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #44
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    They didn't find rat poison per se, what they found was diphacinone, a anti-coagulant that is used in some brands of Rodenticide. This led them to believe that the horses possibly ingested it through contaminated horses feed. The exterminators that service HP however have said the brand they used doesn't have that particular anti-coagulant.
    they have also not claimed that the diphacinone caused the horses death, only that it was found in their system.
    It may well have come from other source. If it was given intentionally then that raises the whole possible EPO connection.
    .



  5. #45
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    As far as EPO is concerned, I think it is only logical that someone will eventually develop, or has already figured out a way to use an animal's own blood to boost oxygen, which means there will never be anitbodies created and nothing to test for, except higher levels of blood oxygen after a race which can be explained away. From what I've read, sudden heart failure in fit horses was almost unheard of before blood oxygen boosting.

    For the Bob Baffert thing regarding Richard's Kid, I agree it was embarrassing for him, but as a huge fan of Richard's Kid, I was really upset with Baffert's public comments supporting Game On Dude over Richard's Kid. There were several remarks before the race, but the kicker for me was in interviews after the Hollywood Gold Cup with what may have seemed like an innocent remark describing his feelings watching the race, saying something like, "...and then I said, 'Oh no! Here comes Richard's Kid!'" (because RK was closing fast).

    I was more than annoyed. What do you mean, "Oh no!"??? You dufus, you train both horses and if I were Richard's Kid's owner, and not just a fan, I would be really mad at that attitude! I get that it was a special event that what's-her-name, oh, Chantal, was the first female jockey to win the Hollywood Gold Cup, but I think, from his comments, that Baffert was not only surprised, but displeased at the thought that Richard's Kid might catch Game On Dude. If I were an owner, I would want to feel assured that a trainer was giving 100% to my horse, the horse I am paying him to campaign. That does not mean a trainer could not give an honest evaluation of a horse's abilities or lack thereof, but it DOES mean he should welcome and celebrate that horse's successes, not be disappointed, dismayed, or alarmed.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
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    That would be horribly sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    Now THAT's interesting.



  7. #47
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    Do you think there will be more coverage this year since it's the 40the anniversary of Secretariat winning??? Also even more hype than usual on why there has not been a TC winner since 1978??

    Quote Originally Posted by CVPeg View Post
    Nothing on point to add, except getting steeled for more garbage to hit racing, just before the Triple Crown dontcha know.

    And coincidentally, have just been thinking recently how I'd like to back away from racing, but don't know how. Others who have seen some not-so-nice realities when they got close have faded much earlier than I have. But I've loved this sport my entire life. Almost wish I could back-pedal to being ignorant.

    Just yesterday read a new blog entry from someone I have been onto for years as being a flat out liar, but who leads others like the pied piper. His credentials continue to be totally bogus, easily checked, but others still willing to drink the koolaid.

    Alternatively professionals with truly the highest credentials, with nothing but the best interest for the horses at heart - fail in their efforts to create "teams" or have the ability to market themselves in a grandiose style, leaving them broke and down-on-their-luck.

    And I frankly hate the press rushing to this sport this time of year, as often their investigations only go so far as to blow a whistle, get all the "racing is cruel" animal activists riled up, and everything confused and totally down the wrong path.

    Like others have noted on some of the forums - why all of a sudden is this being discussed NOW? Reported on NOW? Agree an investigation is warranted, and glad to see it's being looked into, and has been. But why is this out there NOW? To sell more advertising - as when racing is quiet, the following isn't adequate, is it?

    Like politics, racing is so bolluxed up, I'm not sure when it will ever be straightforward again. As I guess it only is when you only watch it on TV once a year.

    All those amazing Thoroughbreds...sigh...



  8. #48
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    Nov. 29, 2005
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    To add another piece to to this cluster PETA throws their filthy hat into the ring...

    http://www.peta.org/mediacenter/news...ce-Deaths.aspx
    Forward is good



  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    Do you think there will be more coverage this year since it's the 40the anniversary of Secretariat winning??? Also even more hype than usual on why there has not been a TC winner since 1978??
    The only mentions so far I've seen of Secretariat's 40th anniversary are relegated to a bourbon endorsement - no news coverage. Even kentuckyderby.com says nothing to mark it. And we're three weeks away...

    And things really only get steamed up about a possible TC when there's either an obvious favorite coming into the KD (like Barbaro), or if someone wins the first two.
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by CVPeg View Post
    The only mentions so far I've seen of Secretariat's 40th anniversary are relegated to a bourbon endorsement - no news coverage. Even kentuckyderby.com says nothing to mark it. And we're three weeks away...
    Most coverage has been small, regional items. I'm sure 'Red' will be cited on NBC for having been just inducted into Canada's Hall of Fame (I guess based upon his one race - albeit his last race) ... as well as the "40 year ago" reflection.

    Richmond Times Dispatch, Apr 1st: "Secretariat’s owner, jockey, fans celebrate at Meadow Event Park"

    New Rochelle Daily Voice, Apr 12th: "40 Years: New Rochelle's Penny Chenery Raced Secretariat To Triple Crown"

    Penny was born in the leafy, upscale bedroom community of NR just north of NYC

    April 10th: Canadian Horse Racing Hall of Fame inductees for August 2013 ceremony.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #51
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    San Diego's Union Tribune (4/11/13) tried to talk to Bob about this:

    “I’ll talk about Governor Charlie, but that’s it,” Baffert said of his colt that won the Sunland Derby to qualify for the Kentucky Derby and worked four furlongs Thursday.

    Asked about the reports on the spike in sudden horse deaths in his barn, Baffert, a Hall of Fame trainer who has won three Kentucky Derbies, said he had no comment.
    That said the CHRB is being clear there is no "spike" in deaths - although compared to say New York or Kentucky similar causes of death are disproportionate.

    Meantime, the California Horse Racing Board’s Bo Derek and the state’s equine medical director, Dr. Rick Arthur, addressed the issue at the CHRB’s meeting Thursday at Santa Anita. They both said the 17 racehorses that have died thus far of sudden death in this fiscal year that ends June 30 are about normal. The state averages about 20 sudden death cases in thoroughbreds a year, Derek said.

    “The number of sudden deaths has not spiked in California,” Derek said, and then she repeated it.
    A telling comment ...

    Richard Mandella, a fellow Hall of Fame trainer like Baffert, said he was just learning the news on Baffert’s horses.

    “Heart attacks are not common place,” Mandella said. “It’s a rare thing, and I’m sure no one is trying to give these horses heart attacks. I had a horse have one about 15 years ago, and one more before that, maybe.”



  12. #52
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    I find it hard to believe that Baffert would be feeding Purina but if this can happen, it is possible the rat poison from the mill could get in the feed as well.
    http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm....jsp?id=808916



  13. #53
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    True - hope it's good bourbon.

    Quote Originally Posted by CVPeg View Post
    The only mentions so far I've seen of Secretariat's 40th anniversary are relegated to a bourbon endorsement - no news coverage. Even kentuckyderby.com says nothing to mark it. And we're three weeks away...

    And things really only get steamed up about a possible TC when there's either an obvious favorite coming into the KD (like Barbaro), or if someone wins the first two.



  14. #54
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    If he does I wouldn't mind talking to him about PGR LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    I find it hard to believe that Baffert would be feeding Purina but if this can happen, it is possible the rat poison from the mill could get in the feed as well.
    http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm....jsp?id=808916



  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drvmb1ggl3 View Post
    Edgar Allen Poe
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    ?
    Code name cyclists used for it - "I need Edgar."

    The cyclists whose sudden deaths may have been EPO-related (early 90's, before they learned to control doses) tended to die in their sleep, not mid-race or mid-workout. After a few of these deaths, racers who were using would get up in the middle of the night every couple of hours or so and do something to get the heart rate up.



  16. #56
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  17. #57
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    Oversimplifying I suppose, but doesn't the "law of averages" also play into this? I doubt Mandela (or many others) have ever had the number of horses in training that Baffert has. What other trainers have had 1, or 2 of, he's probably had multiple. No matter what we're talking about.
    "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George

    What's the status on Tuco?



  18. #58
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    What else is he likely to say?

    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadie's mom View Post
    Oversimplifying I suppose, but doesn't the "law of averages" also play into this? I doubt Mandela (or many others) have ever had the number of horses in training that Baffert has. What other trainers have had 1, or 2 of, he's probably had multiple. No matter what we're talking about.
    Couple of earlier posts respond to this type of question. Their take is that in CA there are several big trainers that have not had deaths like Baffler has. I dunno, the whole situation stinks.
    "All top hat and no canter". *Graureiter*



  20. #60
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    EPO thickens the blood, rat poison thins it. Hmmmm.


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