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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2000
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    Ellijay, GA
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    6,057

    Default Feed thru fly/pest control...anyone tried or use it?

    Just wondering if anyone uses a feed thru fly/pest control supplement, and, if it works?
    Busy Bee Farm, Ellijay, GA
    Never Ride Faster Than Your Guardian Angel Can Fly
    Way Back Texas~04/20/90-09/17/08
    Green Alligator "Captain"



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2008
    Posts
    7,950

    Default

    I use Solitude and I am very pleased with it. It will not work perfectly if you have neighbors with livestock. A nearby farm has cattle so we have some carryover from them, but our fly population is down by at least 3/4 on Solitude.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 5, 2003
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    1,275

    Default

    Everybody has to be on it. If you are in a boarding situation and not all horses are on the feed-through it doesn't work well. Also, it takes some time to start working.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep. 24, 2004
    Location
    Piedmont Triad, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,718

    Default

    We've used Equitrol both the original organophosphate and the current insect regulator. They both have worked for us. Otherwise the horses and us would be surrounded by a cloud of flies.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep. 9, 2008
    Location
    north of the Arctic Circle
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    645

    Default

    I used Buggzo last year and am trying SmartBug Off this year. I did notice a difference in the number of tiny midges and no-see-ums that munched on my guy when he was on the Buggzo. I also noticed far fewer ticks on him than the other horses at my barn. I know it doesn't work to reduce the bug population unless all the horses are on it, but the garlic, etc does seem to help my guy.
    "Winter's a good time to stay in and cuddle,
    but put me in summer and I'll be a... happy snowman!!!"

    Trolls be trollin'! -DH



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
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    Default

    I've been using Solitude for years and am very happy with it. You have to start feeding it weeks before the last frost. I start in late February. And all the horses on a property need to be on it.

    Products like Buggzo are completely different and meant to "repel" flies from horses ingesting it. Doesn't matter if all of the horses are on it, but it's weak at best and doesn't so much KILL flies as perhaps make the horse not as palatable.

    The Solitude/Equitrol/Simplifly products kill fly larvae in the manure pile, so unless all the horses are on these the effectiveness will be much less.
    Click here before you buy.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2000
    Location
    Greenville, MI,
    Posts
    12,900

    Default

    The best thing I ever used, and I was shocked that it worked like crazy whas the Fly predators. Not a fly all summer. The thing is you have to either have your own barn or the farm where you board has to use it for the size of the facility. otherwise the little critters cannot keep up. Also if you are next door to a dairy farm. nope. But that summer I never used a drop of fly spray!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." Caffeinated.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2010
    Location
    Satan's Steam Sauna
    Posts
    626

    Default

    I have been using Spalding Fly Predators in conjunction w/ the stinky fly traps to draw flies away from the barn. This year I am adding Simplifly, because I sold all of my bug eating birds last year in anticipation of a move that got delayed. The birds really did an amazing job breaking up manure in the pasture and eating bugs -- AND, we never saw a snake on the property.

    We've never had a fly problem, but we have terrible mosquitoes and no-see-ums/midges/gnats. So, I still have to use Mosquito Halt Spray on the mare that has to be hosed down daily all summer; and EquiSpot on the gelding who hats fly spray. I may try adding the Buggzo supplement, if it will make them less tasty -- wonder if it would help my husband; bugs LOVE him.

    ETA - I chose Simplifly, b/c that is what the people at Spalding Fly Predators said would not interfere w/ the fly predators. Somebody really needs to come up w/ Mosquito &/or gnat predators.
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2000
    Location
    Greenville, MI,
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    12,900

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ldaziens View Post
    I have been using Spalding Fly Predators in conjunction w/ the stinky fly traps to draw flies away from the barn. This year I am adding Simplifly, because I sold all of my bug eating birds last year in anticipation of a move that got delayed. The birds really did an amazing job breaking up manure in the pasture and eating bugs -- AND, we never saw a snake on the property.

    We've never had a fly problem, but we have terrible mosquitoes and no-see-ums/midges/gnats. So, I still have to use Mosquito Halt Spray on the mare that has to be hosed down daily all summer; and EquiSpot on the gelding who hats fly spray. I may try adding the Buggzo supplement, if it will make them less tasty -- wonder if it would help my husband; bugs LOVE him.

    ETA - I chose Simplifly, b/c that is what the people at Spalding Fly Predators said would not interfere w/ the fly predators. Somebody really needs to come up w/ Mosquito &/or gnat predators.
    Barn Swallows~ Lot's of them. If you are lucky enough to have an older barn with horizontal support beams, They can be messy, under the nest, but it is a small price to pay for no mosquitos.
    Also putting up a bat house. Bats are bug magnets!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." Caffeinated.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov. 24, 2009
    Posts
    39

    Default Which feed thru ones are safe for broodmares? (if any)

    So, I cannot find anything where the vendor actually says their product is safe for broodmares. There are statements such as "no noticable difference" . Why can't these companies who want our money, actually say something in English, like "yes, my product is safe for broodmares" or "Absolutely not safe for broodmares" ? (Can ya tell that I am tired?)



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
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    Default

    I looked this up once and I believe Solitude, unlike the other two, had language stating it was "considered safe" for broodmares. Safe, of course, ALWAYS being a relative term in regards to pregnancy. You are never, ever going to find a statement that any drug is "safe" because that definition can't be agreed upon, and that goes 10-fold in pregnancy. The best you can hope for is "believed safe" or "not known to be harmful" with products like this.


    I have used Solitude in pregnant mares and will do so again if (God willing!) my girl gets in foal this year. FWIW. I consider the tiny potential risk of an ingredient that appears only to affect insects smaller than the torment of flies on a pregnant (or any other) animal.
    Click here before you buy.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2009
    Posts
    633

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ldaziens View Post



    ETA - I chose Simplifly, b/c that is what the people at Spalding Fly Predators said would not interfere w/ the fly predators. Somebody really needs to come up w/ Mosquito &/or gnat predators.
    See, there is a problem there. "Fly predators" or Pteromalid pupal parasitoids attack the pupal stage of the fly (sort of like the cocoon of a moth) which is the life stage before it emerges as an adult fly. The developing pupal parasitoids feed on the immobilized pupal stage of the fly, kills it, and the parasitoid emerges as an adult.

    The feed through products like SimpliFly work to inhibit hormones that flies use to molt from one life stage to another. In essence, the fly can't make it past the 3rd instar as a larvae and thus can't pupariate.

    What does this mean? You are wasting your money, in essence. You are using a product that prevents flies from pupariating. If flies aren't pupariating then fly parasitoids can't lay eggs in fly pupae. Unless your property is pretty dirty (i.e, filled with trash or spoiled or wet feed, other areas flies might breed if there is no manure available) there are no hosts for your fly predators and likely they are just flying right away trying to find places to reproduce.... right off your property.

    Spaulding should have told you that... but then again, why would they tell you not to buy their product?

    Oh, and products like SimpliFly and Solitude ARE chemicals and have documented , peer-reviewed, experimental evidence that there are notable levels of resisistance to those chemicals in house and stable flies. They likely are holding steady these days since poultry producers stopped using cyromazine and the like, but just note that if you are in an area with lots of agriculture those products might not work as well as you would like.

    Source: Working on PhD in veterinary entomology, dissertation is on Pteromalid pupal parasitoids


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
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    Default

    I went back and forth MULTIPLE times with someone from Spalding about this, who actually posts here on COTH and although I never got a hard, straight answer as to whether the predators had been tested with feed-throughs, he assured me that since the fly predators pupate INSIDE A PUPA THAT ALREADY EXISTS (because the product is not 100% effective, some flies still get to the pupal stage) then it in fact is "protected" from the active chemical in the manure by the shell of the pupa upon which it feeds. The larval stage of the predator fly is not POOP dependent, but PUPA dependent, put another way.

    However, if you have better, unbiased information re: the above I'd love to hear it. The question has always bothered me and the answers I've received have been barely sufficient.
    Click here before you buy.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2010
    Location
    Satan's Steam Sauna
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    626

    Default

    Re the Fly Predators & Simplifly -

    My situation is probably different than most here in that I live on a farm and have sheep, dogs, cats plus 2 special needs turkeys in addition to 2 horses; AND I am surrounded by swamp & bayou.

    So, for me, the Fly Predators are for the animals that don't get fed Simplifly and poop in the pasture (sheep, dogs, turkeys, etc.) AND especially to address flies that might breed in the drainage ditches & swamp surrounding our perimeter.

    The Simplifly is to address the horse poop in the 10 acre pasture that was previously instantly picked and scratched apart by the birds - chickens, ducks, geese, and large turkey flock. (Birds were sold in anticipation of a relocation that is delayed indefinitely)

    TL;DR Summary - with the birds & Spalding Fly Predators, we had no flies. Sadly, we were still inundated w/ mosquitos & gnats - the joy of swamp living.
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2009
    Posts
    633

    Default

    Delta, I think the answer is "it hasn't been tested"

    Truthfully, they know very little about pteromalids. However, like I said, if you are feeding a feed through, you are preventing the PUPA from even forming, so you don't need the predators. You are spending extra with no extra gain (except in the situation presented by Idaziens who has a lot more going on).

    You can't really test developing parasitoids against something like dimilin or cyromazine becasue you can't rear the larval fly to the pupal stage for the parasitoid to sting, so there really isn't any way to find out if they are protected or not.

    You COULD test adult parasitoids, whether or not the chemical affects oviposition, but again, if you don't have pupae, you don't have adult parasitoids. They are going to take off in search of hosts to sting. The IGR works on molting, so it shouldn't affect the adult stage of the wasp (who is already mature), even if they did come to hang around the manure.

    We don't really know what attracts the parasitoids, the host, the developing host, the habitat... that is what my PhD research is on. There are still quite a few questions about all this.

    What I DO know is that there is documented resistance to IGR's and yes, you are still feeding chemicals to your horse. (and people get all freaked out by GMO's.. )



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
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    Default

    if you are feeding a feed through, you are preventing the PUPA from even forming, so you don't need the predators
    Except the feed through is not 100% effective and there will always be SOME pupae forming. Also stable flies and house flies reproduce in material OTHER THAN manure, so damp organic matter as a fly reproduction source that is "not poop" could be helped by predators, no?
    Click here before you buy.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2009
    Posts
    633

    Default

    Delta - in theory, but A) it isn't 100% effective, but likely (unless you are more than 8 miles from another facility that has house flies, 250 miles for stable flies) that a portion of your flies are coming "from away" in which case your minimal numbers that are "getting through" the feed through probably would go un noticed (think about it, if flies aren't coming from somewhere else, how do they get started on your farm to begin with?). Additionally, those flies that "get through" the IGR are setting your property up for resistance to the product you are using.. sadly.

    b) You should be controlling flies developing in damp organic matter with CULTRUAL methods and sanitation (i.e., not letting these places be suitable for fly breeding). Manure piles covered with a tarp, garbage bins covered, spilled feed cleaned up and composted. House and stable flies will gravitate to those areas that are the most attractive. Based on my research and supported by others they will head towards those areas with manure (generally fresher manure for house flies and aged manure with organic matter like hay or straw for stable flies). This matter will have a good portion of manure it in (the most attractive stuff) and thus your IGR should take care of the eggs.

    If you don't have enough hosts, your parasitoids are still going to skidaddle away. They don't go where you tell them to, they go where they can find a suitable population of hosts.

    A combination of IPM control methods including traps, cultural control, mechanical/physical control, are a great tool set, but using two methods that directly contradict each other are.. well, silly! If there are other adult flies that you want to get rid of set up a couple traps like jug trap or alsynite trap, depending on your pest fly. You are never going to eliminate the flies, that is an unrealistic goal. But traps or baits are definitely a cheaper alternative



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
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    Default

    Yes, well, everyone SHOULD remove all possible sites for fly breeding, but in reality patches of damp/organic HAPPEN. I put a lot of my fly predators in places "other than" the manure pile (laden with fed-through poop) just to cover all possible bases. I don't have time to seek out and destroy every last patch of damp organic matter, and since my barn is 30 feet from a small creek it would be an exercise in futility.

    I share the (major) concern that feed-throughs and fly predators are antithetical, HOWEVER, as "part of a complete breakfast" (doing everything possible) in fly control philosophy, I have used both and although n=1 I do think there were better results with both than with either/or. I am pretty compulsive about paying attention to fly numbers in terms of which species, the weather, time of year, etc. and after 7 fly seasons I think I have a fair handle on my own place. I do think MANY flies are "blown in" on the wind and bad weather (a combination of wind AND more moisture) seems to cause a brief "bloom". But these are short-lived, an indication that fly reproduction is fairly well limited on my property. Thankfully I have no nearby neighbors with livestock!!

    Anyhow, for the cost of the fly predators (not that much) and the risk/benefit ratio, they are acceptable to me even if my feed-through is preventing some of them from doing their job. I still rely on traps, bait, and all the other things as well.

    But I am very happy to hear your thoughts and hope that your thesis work brings much clarity on the topic!
    Click here before you buy.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2009
    Posts
    633

    Default

    Interesting, Delta.. do you have a system of monitoring for your flies so you are using more than anecdotal evidence to support your hypothesis that your fly numbers are lowered? Did you compare seasons with each method vs. with both? Did you compare seasons with each method vs. those with both? taking in to consideration precipitation on your facility?

    Have you actually explored these "wet areas" to see if fly larvae are even present? Have you identified the larvae you have found (remembering that GOOD fly larvae, like soldier flies live in the same habitats as the muscids)?

    I find it so frustrating that this information is out there and producers reject the science. If the predators work, why not just use those instead of throwing chemicals through your animals system and creating more resistance to insecticides which eventually will render them less and less effective, especially if localized?

    When faced with a rational, science based evidence it is amazing what is rejected....I'm sorry, Delta... I'm not directing this at you, per se.. it is frustrating to see this time after time. My work life is dedicated to reducing chemicals, and though people know it is bad they reject what isn't "easy" It doesn't take much time to throw a tarp over manure piles, or basic horse husbandry (i.e., pick up after your animals). Seriously, what is the point of the research if people don't care?

    P.s., the creek doesn't matter. Again, need manure based material to attract flies (not always, obviously, if there isn't suitable manure they will go elsewhere, but the creek will only be a problem if you have black flies or horse or deer flies).



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr. 26, 2000
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    3,240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    The best thing I ever used, and I was shocked that it worked like crazy whas the Fly predators. Not a fly all summer. The thing is you have to either have your own barn or the farm where you board has to use it for the size of the facility. otherwise the little critters cannot keep up. Also if you are next door to a dairy farm. nope. But that summer I never used a drop of fly spray!
    ^ This is what we do and have for several years. Much better luck at controlling the flies than w/feed through.



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