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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by pal-o-mino View Post
    Please try and read for content. I said, tell you what is wrong with your horse. Never said you made a clinical diagnosis. I mean, like an actual vet would do, who's actually seen the horse. But as I stated, you do it all from a few pictures over the interwebs. I mean, believe it or not, there are other causes of horse lameness besides the shoes/hooves/ anything from the knee down.

    When my horse went 3 legged lame, everybody said, Abcess!! As I'm sure you would have as well. Get the vet out with her quack machines and guess what? Wasn't her feet!

    Saddle fit? Rising trot? Can the horse trot? You see that from pictures too? The OPs version of 'the horse is slightly lame' might be a 5/5 from somebody with a degree who actually sees the horse. Dig? Speaking of digging you need bandaids yourself. It was you who recommended my contracted-heels horse needs shoes against the advice of everyone else who has SEEN her. I just bring this up to remind people you are an anonymous voice over the interwebs who does not know their horse and is not a vet, lameness or otherwise. You see a few pictures and read a few things, and POOF. Off you go on your keyboard.
    I understand that you're unfamiliar with me, pal-o, but I am quite versed in equine distal limb anatomy and am known as a bit of an expert when it comes to form and function of the same. I helped to design and then pioneered a line of dynamic splints aimed at the noninvasive correction of flexural and angular limb deformities in hooved mammals. I am now pursuing my PhD in biochemistry with my research focusing on the study of a particular protein that may mitigate tissue death in laminitic horses. I'm fairly sure I know a grade 5/5 lameness when I see one. But I do appreciate your concern for the horse in question. He's a gem and deserves all the love and care he can get.
    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory



  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by pal-o-mino View Post
    I know that's what they're for. I use them myself for that. I"m not objecting to the message boards being used in that way. Just certain posters and their 'opinions' and rude comments. According to him, anyone who has an opinion that isn't him, is wrong and/or stupid.
    Not "anyone who has an opinion", rather a select few, yourself included, who routinely offer not only bad advice, but weigh in on subjects about which they have little to no knowledge. In other words, routinely demonstrate that they are afflicted with TSS.
    Last edited by Rick Burten; Apr. 14, 2013 at 05:20 PM.


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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackieBlue View Post
    I understand that you're unfamiliar with me, pal-o, but I am quite versed in equine distal limb anatomy and am known as a bit of an expert when it comes to form and function of the same. I helped to design and then pioneered a line of dynamic splints aimed at the noninvasive correction of flexural and angular limb deformities in hooved mammals. I am now pursuing my PhD in biochemistry with my research focusing on the study of a particular protein that may mitigate tissue death in laminitic horses. I'm fairly sure I know a grade 5/5 lameness when I see one. But I do appreciate your concern for the horse in question. He's a gem and deserves all the love and care he can get.
    Wasn't talking about you or your abilities. In general, people come here and say, my horse is lame, and little lame, whatever. Who's to say, when offering advice online, what the horse really looks like, is what I meant. Nobody, unless they have actually seen the horse.

    You may be able to judge a 5/5 lameness, maybe somebody else comes on and says, my horse is a little lame, but he's really 4/5. If nobody has seen the horse and just going by what the poster says, then offers advice on that, it's not really accurate advice, is it.



  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Burten View Post
    Not "anyone who has an opinion", rather a select few, yourself included, who routinely offer not only bad advice, but weigh in on subjects about which they have little to no knowledge. In other words, routinely demonstrate that they are afflicted with TSS.


    And that's not what the boards are for.
    [/QUOTE]

    Oh yeah? Please point out where I offered bad advice or any advice for that matter. Since I don't know the horses in question, I offer my opinions and experiences and say, that's what worked for me. That's it. No name calling, no putting people down if they don't know something or for asking a question. I don't say, THIS is what's wrong with your horse and THIS is what you should do, because I am not a vet, nor farrier, nor do I play one on a message board.

    PS You really should have figured out that quote feature by now.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosalind View Post
    Oh this is good. Except for PSSM and big non-painful knee, none of the other things you list are actual diagnoses, and may or may not have anything to do with the horse's current lameness.
    Did you miss the part where I said "clues"? Or is it that you don't know what a 'clue' is/represents? Or do you believe that veterinarians don't also use clues to aid in their diagnosis? And please read the following very carefully: I don't diagnose, I evaluate." It is the 'province' of the veterinarian to diagnose, prescribe, and treat, medically
    Do you not know this?
    I know it quite well.
    Is it because you're a farrier and not a vet or horse owner?
    Never said I was a veterinarian. I am indeed a farrier and probably for more years than you have been alive, I have been(though not currently) a horse owner, and , as acknowledged by many others, still a horseman, in the true sense of the word. And, lest you still misunderstand, the designation of 'horseman/woman" can never be self-conferred. It is granted by others who, in their own right, have been so acknowledged. And though many will find it off putting, it is readily demonstrated that while forty+ years ago there were more horsemen/women who coincidentally owned horses than there were mere horse owners, today those numbers are reversed and most people today who own horses will never/could never make a pimple on a horseman's butt. They do however make rather large and usually painful, carbuncles in the same location.....
    Do you yourself suffer from PMS? Why so pissy? Or shall I say offensive?
    I don't have the correct equipment to suffer from PMS. In the spring and summer of my life, I opted to suffer fools and their stupidity. Now, in the autumn/early winter of my life, I choose to suffer fools and their stupidity(especially as it applies in this case, to horses)little to not at all.
    If reading BBs does this to you, I have a suggestion: don't read them anymore.
    I have a better suggestion, why don't you(individually and collectively)STFU.

    Since neither is likely to occur, you(individually and collectively) are just shyt outta luck. You keep spewing sewage and I'll keep sending in the hazmat team to clean it up..
    Last edited by Rick Burten; Apr. 14, 2013 at 05:26 PM.


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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by pal-o-mino View Post
    Please try and read for content. I said, tell you what is wrong with your horse. Never said you made a clinical diagnosis. I mean, like an actual vet would do, who's actually seen the horse. But as I stated, you do it all from a few pictures over the interwebs.
    Where, precisely, have I done that?
    I mean, believe it or not, there are other causes of horse lameness besides the shoes/hooves/ anything from the knee down.
    Where/when have I ever said or indicated otherwise?
    When my horse went 3 legged lame, everybody said, Abcess!! As I'm sure you would have as well.
    So now you've added mind reading to the rest of your foolishness and hypocrisy..LOL! Are you aware that 80% of lameness in horses occurs from the knee(carpus) and tarsus(hock) down, and that 90% of that occurs from the coronary band down? The point being that when lameness presents, the first place someone is going to look, is the hoof. Don't believe me? Check what veterinarians are taught in vet school... And, when a vet does diagnostics/lameness exam, where does s/he most often start? Why do you suppose that is? (answer(in case you already don't know it): See 2nd sentence, above)
    Get the vet out with her quack machines and guess what? Wasn't her feet!
    Where(as in, at what part of the body) did she start her lameness exam/evaluation/diagnosis). Please try not to lie when you answer.
    Saddle fit? Rising trot? Can the horse trot? You see that from pictures too?
    Of course the horse can trot. Didn't see that from the pictures because I didn't have to. The OP stated/inferred as much but you have to have the ability to read for content in context with comprehension and then apply critical analysis/thinking to recognize and understand that. One hint would be that the OP has said that the horse has had a successful show ring career, including as an over fences horse. Of what import do you think that might be in determining, without seeing the horse, whether the horse can trot or not?
    The OPs version of 'the horse is slightly lame' might be a 5/5 from somebody with a degree who actually sees the horse.
    Or not. Regardless, what difference does it make? Lame is as lame does. In your personal life, how many 5/5 intermittently lame(OP's words) horses have you personally seen/attended to and as a percentage of the whole, how many horses is that? ie: 1:10 or 10%; 5:100 or 5%, 100:500 or 20%, etc.
    Speaking of digging you need bandaids yourself. It was you who recommended my contracted-heels horse needs shoes against the advice of everyone else who has SEEN her.
    I have repeatedly asked you to provide proof, in context, that I advised that. You repeatedly refuse to so do. Therefore, in the absence of proof positive, you were, are and will remain, a LIAR.
    I just bring this up to remind people you are an anonymous voice over the interwebs who does not know their horse and is not a vet, lameness or otherwise.
    Again you LIE! I am not anonymous. I use my real name and anyone who cares to so do, can rather easily find information about me. Even easier, they have but to ask and I will provide any relevant information they want. Can you say/do the same thing? I thought not...
    You see a few pictures and read a few things, and POOF. Off you go on your keyboard.
    Your crystal ball needs new batteries.
    Perhaps you should avail yourself of one or more of these:
    http://www.smarttutor.com/free-resou...grade-reading/
    http://www.k5learning.com/reading/reading-comprehension
    http://www.universalclass.com/i/cour...ension-101.htm
    http://www.readingcomprehensionconnection.com/
    http://www.execuread.com/online-read...hension-tests/
    http://www.time4learning.com/reading...prehension.htm
    http://www.gmatprepnow.com/module/gm...-comprehension


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  7. #107
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    I think COTH is the computer version of the dog that farriers want to kick when they come home after a bad day!

    Which, of course, is a figure of speech.
    Last edited by cowboymom; Apr. 14, 2013 at 06:26 PM.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #108
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    No matter how bad the day was, I never, as in ever, want to kick my dog(s).



  9. #109
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    Just for fun, since we're all playing so nicely together, I thought I'd share some pictures of the horse's mismatched shoulders, legs, feet and such. Now, I did not take these pics planning to share with cloth, so they are far from perfect for comparison. But J find the disparities interesting and thought, at this point, others might as well. You can see the lumpy knee in question much better in the photo taken from the right side.
    Someone suggested that the lumpy knee couldn't cause lameness for this horse because it didn't hurt him when it happened. While he didn't act painful in any way when this happened last year, the extensor tendon sheath is not meant to be distended. At all. The tendon itself is not meant to be awash in fluid long term and his body's attempts at dEaling with the abnormal stresses creates an inflammatory process that is, in itself, damaging to the tissues involved.
    Anyway, some of Rick's guesses re saddle fit and movement can be verified just by looking at these photos. There's no way anything sits straight on this horse.
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    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory



  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackieBlue View Post
    Anyway, some of Rick's guesses re saddle fit and movement can be verified just by looking at these photos.
    Hey, those weren't just guesses, they were SWAGs.
    There's no way anything sits straight on this horse.
    Out of curiosity, do you periodically switch your stirrup leathers form side to side?



  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Burten View Post
    Hey, those weren't just guesses, they were SWAGs.


    Out of curiosity, do you periodically switch your stirrup leathers form side to side?
    Ha ha! I do! But not for the reason you're thinking of. My left leg has been broken 5 times never horse related. Once crushed from mid-tibia down with anterior compartment syndrome and subsequent osteomyelitis (MRSA and staph. Epi) and nonunion. I've had 21 surgeries on the left leg, including graft harvests from the pelvis, left side. Really, I shouldn't even be walking. Femur, tibia and fibula broken/ crushed multiple times, no meniscus (lateral or medial) patella Baja, no ACL, over stretched MCL, and, of course LOTS of arthritis and nerve damage. Switching my stirrup leathers regularly is part of my ongoing endeavor to ride as "straight" as possible. ;-)
    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory



  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackieBlue View Post
    Someone suggested that the lumpy knee couldn't cause lameness for this horse because it didn't hurt him when it happened.
    I hope you don't think that someone was me because I never said or even suggested that. You said he was not painful when he injured the knee.

    I have a horse with a big knee that has NEVER bothered him. Go figure.

    Rick, check aisle 4 for Midol next time you're there.


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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosalind View Post
    I hope you don't think that someone was me because I never said or even suggested that. You said he was not painful when he injured the knee.

    I have a horse with a big knee that has NEVER bothered him. Go figure.

    Rick, check aisle 4 for Midol next time you're there.

    There's no need to be defensive. I don't know who I meant and the mention wasn't meant to be derogatory in any way.
    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory



  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by pal-o-mino View Post
    I know that's what they're for. I use them myself for that. I"m not objecting to the message boards being used in that way. Just certain posters and their 'opinions' and rude comments. According to him, anyone who has an opinion that isn't him, is wrong and/or stupid. And that's not what the boards are for.
    I agree.



  15. #115
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    Default Bad farrier JOB!

    I don't care what anyone says...you have to be a ffing moron to say this is not farrier related......flame suit own...and kiss my butt..Jackie if you are anywhere within 2 hours of va beach I now have a master certified farrier with 40 years experience that I would put up against anyone....anyone...any farrier that comes on this forum....have used him for over 20 years....impeccable references,..many big vet hospitals call him when the going gets rough.....he travels 5 hours twice a month to come to our barn in va. beach....and is worth every every penny he makes....and he is well paid....I'm going to show him these pictures tomorrow..I don't think he will have the same rude responses that you have received here from resident farriers.....those feet look like shitola...big time regardless of your camera angle..
    PM me if you need a good farriers name.....
    Last edited by supernatural; Apr. 14, 2013 at 11:13 PM. Reason: additional info
    There are no stupid horses....just stupid people


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  16. #116
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    I should add....I have lived in VA Beach for last 10 years. I have seen more lame horses in this time than ever before in my 30 years in the business before I moved here. After exhausting all local farriers...I called my farrier that I used for 20 years prior to moving to Va. Beach. He has totally transformed my horses and many of the 100 horses that are stabled at the barn in Virginia Beach. Several of the horses that are now sound were totally lame for at least 2 to 3 years, unable to be ridden and are now being ridden and in work. Bottom line is balancing the foot according to the horses conformation.
    There are no stupid horses....just stupid people


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  17. #117
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    Let's tone down the personal commentary and some of the language all around and keep the focus on a productive discussion about the horse's potential issues.

    Mod 1


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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by supernatural View Post
    I don't think he will have the same rude responses that you have received here from resident farriers.....
    You can, of course, demonstrate precisely where I have written any rude responses to JB. If you cannot so do, you might want to consider an apology. Failing that, you are hoist with your own petard and thus guilty of that of which you so erroneously accuse me.


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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by supernatural View Post
    I don't care what anyone says...you have to be a ffing moron to say this is not farrier related......flame suit own...and kiss my butt..Jackie if you are anywhere within 2 hours of va beach I now have a master certified farrier with 40 years experience that I would put up against anyone....anyone...any farrier that comes on this forum....have used him for over 20 years....impeccable references,..many big vet hospitals call him when the going gets rough.....he travels 5 hours twice a month to come to our barn in va. beach....and is worth every every penny he makes....and he is well paid....I'm going to show him these pictures tomorrow..I don't think he will have the same rude responses that you have received here from resident farriers.....those feet look like shitola...big time regardless of your camera angle..
    PM me if you need a good farriers name.....
    Thank you for posting

    and

    lol.


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  20. #120
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    Rick - FIRST apologize to pal-o-mino.

    And I just want to throw in here that many would say that the crookedness of his body is reflected in his feet.

    Do any here feel the feet are the cause of the crooked body?

    Don't both need correcting?

    Doesn't he need some slower rehab work?

    Or maybe retirement?

    DOes he have to be used till he breaks?



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