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  1. #21
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    Oct. 30, 2006
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    My biggest regret in this life is doing way too much and I mean way too much grooming, mucking, etc., FOR FREE!

    I will echo everyone else, grow a pair! Next time they ask you to go to a show, tell them you need to get paid and be detailed about it. Tell them you expect x=amount for braiding and x=amount per day per horse for mucking, grooming, tacking, wiping boots, etc.

    You need to stand up for yourself. Your trainer and her clients won't do it for you.
    I don't always feel up to arguing with your ignorance



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2004
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    The very first time it happened, you were a VICTIM!

    The second time it happened, you were a VOLUNTEER!

    No pity for volunteers...there are always hanger's on at horse shows who do all sorts of free work.

    Get over yourself and your sufferings and unpaid freebies....grow a set and go an enjoy shows. Don't worry about what other people are doing. Don't volunteer, let them ask you for assistance/aid etc. Then practice saying, "No, I've got my own stuff to take care of". It's really very simple...become a mammal, enjoy that new backbone!
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec. 9, 2011
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    443

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    Just a thought here . . . .is it possible the clients aren't paying you directly because they think the trainer is paying you? Is it possible the trainer is billing them for your grooming services and keeping the money? If that's going on and it gets out, I bet (or at least hope) that those clients will be mortified to find you've been doing all this work for free.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
    Location
    Boston Area
    Posts
    8,385

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    Are you going because you enjoy it? or because you feel obligated.

    You are not obligated to do free work.

    It sounds like the deal has shifted over the years -- you used to get more rides and then it was worth it to you to groom. Over time the arrangement got less advantageous to you and now it sounds ridiculous that you spent so much time and got so little for your efforts.

    I'm always leery of the work for ride model. I think it's better if you get paid for your work and then you pay your share of the showing fees. Once you start putting a monetary value on what you do, people start to value it more.

    I would ask around and find out what grooms are getting in your area and how much people are paid to braid.

    Then, I'd say to your trainer that now that you're in college and need the money, you need to formalize your arrangements and give her a price sheet for the services you offer. You can explain that if you are able to show Dobbin, you would be happy to pay your share.

    Sure they may say they don't need you, but then you will have all that time to do something else like get a job that pays.
    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
    EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug. 6, 2002
    Location
    NJ, USA
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    2,264

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    Just want to say, for some people its inconceivable that you let people walk all over you this long. "Why didn't you just speak up & say enough already?", they think. I want to say I understand, my nature is to be shy, a pleaser, to try to make people like me. We are a different breed. It's very easy for the outgoing, naturally bold sort to walk all over us, and never take a moment to wonder why we allow it. It's easy for us to not even realize it's happening for weeks or even months. Although I'd rather be one of the naturally bold, socially confident ones, it is not my basic nature. Just like in a horse, you can't change basic nature! But you CAN train yourself (like your horse lol) to ACT more like a bold, confident, outgoing person. It just takes a lot more work for people like us, than the others.

    So don't let anyone give you any grief over "why haven't you said anything until now? I've had never let someone take advantage of me like that!!!" I fully understand why, and they never will! Just think of the most outgoing, take charge, never let's anyone take advantage of them person you know, real or fictional, and note the way they act, how they say things, their body language, etc. That's what you have to make yourself copy, to confront these folks (and future people you find who are taking advantage). You don't need to change into that person, just learn how to act like one temporarily when you want to approach others to request a change.

    It's not all bad, being people like us we tend to have overdoses of kindness & compassion & empathy, all good things to have in the world. But we do have to work extra hard to be sure we're not being taken advantage of!

    Time to gather your will & pull on your "no nonsense, time to address MY needs" persona & face these folks. Good luck!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2005
    Location
    NY
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    6,275

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadien View Post
    Just want to say, for some people its inconceivable that you let people walk all over you this long. "Why didn't you just speak up & say enough already?", they think. I want to say I understand, my nature is to be shy, a pleaser, to try to make people like me.
    I just wanted to add that on top of this description of the nature of some people, the horse world is full, FULL of stories of this rider or that rider who worked their buns off doing mundane menial labor as a path to getting to ride and were recognized for their hard work and that was their path to riding, getting training and better horses to ride and eventually the path to becoming a professional, and becoming who they are... famous and an Olympian and/or whatever.... It's quite a story and kudos for those it worked out for.
    We all have to remember, however, that the world is also full of people who worked hard, worked their buns off, and got... nowhere.

    OP, notice what has transpired here... working hard for these people apparently won't get you where you want to go, if showing and riding is where you want to be that is. So far it's actually gotten you farther from it.
    The rest, how to change that, has been well addressed by others. Great advice here.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
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    It is supposed to work: Pose for more confidence!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Ks-_Mh1QhMc
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb. 26, 2007
    Location
    Bronx, NY/Atlanta, GA/Fort Dodge, IA
    Posts
    3,371

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    So, wait... what are *you* getting out of all this? No, really. How is it to your benefit in any way?

    There's nothing wrong with helping out a friend, but a friend is going to be willing to help you out (in some capacity) in return.

    So what if you're replaceable? Let them replace you. No skin off your nose.
    Founder, Higher Standards Leather Care Addicts Anonymous
    Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Sep. 26, 2008
    Posts
    1,291

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    if they ask say that you would love to but cannot do it for less than X per horse for grooming/day care and for X per braiding

    if they ask why the change, let them know that you feel that you need the money for school/ horses, and don't have the time to just hang out for free at the shows

    if the show is local, go out and put some fliers up for braiding, there are always ppl looking that either cannot or do not have the time



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    7,943

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    Since summer and show season is on the horizon, this is the perfect time to start your own home business! It's not hard!

    Find out what other groomers.handlers, etc are charging for their services in your area. Then, put together a flyer with catchy piece of clip art, photo or drawing on it to get attention, and circulate it out to local show barns in your area. Make sure your contact information is on it, as well as a list of services you are offering to their clients, and that you are experienced in show prep. Other places to circulate this to would include show clubs, trainers, BO's, feed and tack shops and even the front desk at your vet's office, at the front desk of a dog groomers office, etc. This way, you are not just hoping to feed off of one source for your income and feeling disappointed when they treat you like crap.

    As for feeling as if you have been reduced to wiping other people's boots at this farm, I would gently remind you that while we may lose a lot of ground in one way or another in life, if we lose our own self-respect we have nothing. So find a way to start working towards getting yours back. You can be your own best advocate here. Step up, and get it done!
    Last edited by Chief2; Apr. 9, 2013 at 01:04 PM. Reason: typo
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

    http://s1098.photobucket.com/albums/...2011%20Photos/


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief2 View Post

    As for feeling as if you have been reduced to wiping other people's boots at this farm, I would gently remind you that while we may lose a lot of ground in one way or another in life, if we lose our own self-respect we have nothing. So find a way to start working towards getting yours back. You can be your own best advocate here. Step up, and get it done!
    the whole post was good. but this bears repeating!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2004
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    6,882

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    I was lucky, I grew up with coaches and grooms. My main task was to try and keep clean, don't sweat like a pig and never-ever to bother the horse's manes or tails!!! (every long hair pulled out was a year of growing to replace). I had people who groomed, cleaned and wiped boots.

    I help friends do this now...well, the boot wiping and number straightening with occasional horse holding. I see it as a bit of payback and making their showing a bit more special. If anyone ever demanded or expected it...I'd not lift a hand to help. Free help should do it because it "amuses them" not for guilt or not wanting to say "NO".
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jul. 22, 2007
    Location
    South of Georgia, North of Miami
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    1,117

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    This is one of those lessons you learn in life. You will only be taken advantage of as much as you LET them take advantage of you. And from the sounds of it those folks are getting a heck of a free ride at your expense.

    If they ask if your coming next time, say "Yes, but I'm coming to have fun this time." and then only take care of your horse and do what you want to do.



  14. #34
    Join Date
    Dec. 5, 2002
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    1,379

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    You have been given some great advice here. Just want to say that if you are in my area, I would hire you with pay....
    West of nowhere



  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 1999
    Location
    Midland, NC, USA
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    7,245

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    I'm a little confused though since it sounds like you were showing a horse that was not yours? Is it the trainer's horse? Did you get coaching at the show? Do you ride this horse at the barn and do you pay to do so? I have had students who helped out at shows in exchange for riding/showing privileges on my horses. In eventing (my sport) an entire weekend's work would not = coaching and riding in one class, but having seen the rate sheets at many hunter barns, I imagine it would take a whole weekend's menial labor to pay for a hunter show, between coaching, hauling, trainer travel, trainer lodging, etc fees.....!

    Jennifer


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Oct. 16, 2008
    Location
    Central Oklahoma
    Posts
    3,101

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdCharm View Post
    I'm a little confused though since it sounds like you were showing a horse that was not yours? Is it the trainer's horse? Did you get coaching at the show? Do you ride this horse at the barn and do you pay to do so? I have had students who helped out at shows in exchange for riding/showing privileges on my horses. In eventing (my sport) an entire weekend's work would not = coaching and riding in one class, but having seen the rate sheets at many hunter barns, I imagine it would take a whole weekend's menial labor to pay for a hunter show, between coaching, hauling, trainer travel, trainer lodging, etc fees.....!

    Jennifer
    This is what I think as well. It sounds like she did not pay anything other than the one class fee, which led me to believe that the trainer waived all show fees in exchange for her to do all the work.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2012
    Posts
    5

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    I don't know what I get. I probably get treated better at the barn because I do help at shows. My trainer has done work with my horse on a very as-needed basis (maybe 24 hours total over 4 months). Sometimes I school the lesson horse, but I don't get rides at home or at shows.

    I've tried to get a real job, but I've got school, debate, and the horse to manage. Between limited hours and total lack of experience, I don't have a lot of options. I'm working on it, but I don't expect anything anytime soon.

    I'm with the only real show barn in the area. Everyone else is trail riders. If I piss these people off, I'm screwed for the summer and for every summer I'm home.

    I'm liking the "I can't miss more school without pay" line. I'll try that next time.

    I don't think my trainers would take money from me - they like me too much and at least one of the two is too honest for that. The other one... well, I would be surprised, but it wouldn't be totally unexpected.

    I kind of feel obligated because I've done this for so long and I'm better at it than any other single person. I also enjoy the hell of out it, because how else can I spend a weekend with horses for the low, low price of $45.

    Ugh, Arcadien, it's so hard, though! My heart races like I'm about to fight a lion. I don't have problems speaking in public, I'm not afraid of heights, and I can kill spiders with the best of them... but god forbid I have to ask a favor. I'll work on it.

    Sometimes I get to ride. Sometimes I get a meal for free. I always get a thank you, but I can't buy a textbook with a thank you.

    My self-respect is not only in the trash - it's been taken out to the dump and covered in rotten banana peels and dirty diapers.

    I showed a horse owned by one of the clients. I got five minutes of coaching before the class - basically "okay pick him up, good, slower hand, yes, to canter poke him with your outside spur then use both calves, now go show." I groomed him, tacked him, and untacked him myself. The horse was showing there anyways with an amateur. She paid office fees, trainer fees, and all other fees. I do not ride this horse at home.



  18. #38
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdCharm View Post
    I'm a little confused though since it sounds like you were showing a horse that was not yours? Is it the trainer's horse? Did you get coaching at the show? Do you ride this horse at the barn and do you pay to do so? I have had students who helped out at shows in exchange for riding/showing privileges on my horses. In eventing (my sport) an entire weekend's work would not = coaching and riding in one class, but having seen the rate sheets at many hunter barns, I imagine it would take a whole weekend's menial labor to pay for a hunter show, between coaching, hauling, trainer travel, trainer lodging, etc fees.....!

    Jennifer
    I think the operative term is 'was' as in now she is doing the chores and polishes the boots of the other girl that now gets the catch rides.

    But still, grooming and braiding....and sleeping in the barn....that is worth quiet a bit, me thinks....then paying the entry fee is somewhat of a slap in the face.

    However....
    seems the arrangement has outlived it's purpose. Time to change it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  19. #39
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    I kind of feel obligated because I've done this for so long and I'm better at it than any other single person. I also enjoy the hell of out it, because how else can I spend a weekend with horses for the low, low price of $45.
    How about:

    How else can I spend the weekend with horses and MAKE MONEY....




    Ok, so you gt something out of the deal.
    But not much and you can't count on it....and you still pay....

    and there are a lot of other people in the world.
    You have to look out for Number One. And that is not the barn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  20. #40
    Join Date
    May. 8, 2006
    Location
    Northern Indiana
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    759

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    If you're so good at it, I bet you that there are multiple people out there willing to pay a fair wage for that great work!!!
    To be loved by a horse should fill us with awe, for we hath not deserved it.



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