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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
    Location
    Staunton, VA
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    344

    Default Stillborn foal - Red Bag - anyone need a nurse mare in VA?

    My mare Savvy had a stillborn foal, Red Bag delivery, on Friday night at day 322 - he clearly had been dead for a day or so in utero - there was nothing we could do. He was perfectly formed, normal size bay colt by Chaleon and I am so dissapointed - was really looking forward to this one...... We don't know why this happened - probably either her age (19) or fescue issues? What experiences have you fellow COTHBB breeders had with Red Bag foals?
    Last edited by savvy9; Apr. 9, 2013 at 12:57 PM.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov. 30, 2005
    Location
    Northfield MN
    Posts
    1,005

    Default

    I'm so sorry. Just heartbreaking to lose one

    I've only had one red bag and was extremely lucky to be able to save the foal. My mare was also 19. In her case, we suspected placentitis played a role. I retired her at that point due to age and other health concerns. The foal had a rocky first 48 hours, but did great afterward.

    Very kind of you to offer her as a nurse mare.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 26, 2008
    Posts
    1,291

    Default

    I am so sorry

    that is a very kind offer though



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
    Location
    Staunton, VA
    Posts
    344

    Default

    Thank you both - I am just glad she is ok.....



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2008
    Posts
    1,646

    Default

    What a heartbreaker; I am so sorry. I hope you and your mare feel better soon, and that someone can give your dear mare the job she wants. Hugs.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 23, 2001
    Location
    Catharpin, Virginia
    Posts
    6,694

    Default

    You might want to contact some of your local equine vet clinics and even Morven Park in Leesburg and let them know you have a nurse mare available should one of their clients need one.

    Very nice of you to offer. So sorry about your foal.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
    Location
    Staunton, VA
    Posts
    344

    Unhappy

    I am just a small hobby breeder with 2 mares and this is the first time I have had any problems - my 7th foal - I never even was worried, her pregnancy had gone perfectly, it is a real shock. I guess something was due to go wrong sooner or later



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep. 19, 2008
    Location
    Maxville, On
    Posts
    580

    Default

    So sorry for your lost. I know how dishearting it can be, I had two, one could not be saved but the other is now a strong and healthy 3 years old.

    My first foal was a red bag delivery. I was in shock and totaly unprepared for that but did what should have been done but not fast enough. You really have to be quick in these situation, each second counts. The filly was only 300 days and the vet I had at that time was not very cooperative and never showed up . We cancelled our emergency call ... 4 hours after our first call; the foal was dead. Even if the the filly would have been rushed to an equine hospital I doubt she would have survived but waiting for the help from this vet who didn't even bother to call back even if we kept calling ... was something I will never forget.

    Necropsy result : Rhino even if the mare had her 5, 7 and 9 months shot.

    The second I saved her at 322 days. Her dam had HUGE colic 3 days before she foaled and you could see her foal kicking her side like crazy, it was the most terrifying thing to see. Her tummy was bouncing from side to side... The vet thought she might have a twisted uterus ... but no. However I expected foaling within the next 3 days . I guess the filly had kicked so hard inside that the placenta must have detached itself . I kept a very close look and sure enough 3 days later things strarted to look bad. Even if I was there to open her bag inside the vagina, the filly was born weak and took 19 hours before she was able to get up and feed by herself . She also had seizure but was fine after 3 weeks.

    Loosing a foal is never easy, I lost another one last year, a Chin Chin after 250 days. The necropsy didn't show anything except maybe some tangled around the neck that could have starved the foal to death. We will never know for sure.

    However I know that if you want to breed you have to be strong because you can be sure that one day, you will lost one and it will happen again. You will have to be prepared but I can't say I will ever be.
    Suzanne
    bloomingtonfarm.com
    Breeder of Royal Dutch Sport Horse


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
    Location
    Staunton, VA
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    Default

    Gosh Suzanne - I am so sorry for your losses - that first one must have been horrible! My foal has clearly been dead for a day or longer, so there was nothing to be done for him, at least we didn't have the trauma of losing him after a fight.

    Has anyone had any sucess breeding a mare again after a red bag foal and having a normal healthy foal again? I have heard different opinions - some people say retire her and some say try again..... I would love to hear anyone's stories!



  10. #10
    Join Date
    May. 28, 2009
    Location
    nw ct
    Posts
    687

    Default

    I'm so sorry for your loss. It seems so senseless and is truly heartbreaking. Your offer is generous, I hope your mare can help someone..



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 23, 2001
    Location
    Catharpin, Virginia
    Posts
    6,694

    Default

    There is another thread on the tent catepillar problem again this year.

    Typically a mare with fescue toxicosis goes way over term and we usually see the problem in VA in the very late spring and early summer -- as bluegrass and orchard and other grasses come of first and horses will avoid fescue unless it's the last thing left to graze. Unless that's all they have. Since she's had no problems in the past, I would assume that was not the problem in this case.

    Could just be "nature's way". Even so, it's always a heartbreak.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
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    19,885

    Default

    Nobody makes it out unscathed if you breed more than a foal or two. I had one that had an intussecption and had surgery at 3 and 5 days old and another who was born with no eyes. One broke his pelvis during the birth. They all survived except the no eyes one who spent his ten hours of life screaming for his dam who was standing right next to him and throwing himself into the stall walls. Hopefully you got your bad luck out of the way and it will be smooth sailing from here on out. Godspeed little one.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    305

    Default

    Messaged you.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep. 19, 2008
    Location
    Maxville, On
    Posts
    580

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by savvy9 View Post
    Gosh Suzanne - I am so sorry for your losses - that first one must have been horrible! My foal has clearly been dead for a day or longer, so there was nothing to be done for him, at least we didn't have the trauma of losing him after a fight.

    Has anyone had any sucess breeding a mare again after a red bag foal and having a normal healthy foal again? I have heard different opinions - some people say retire her and some say try again..... I would love to hear anyone's stories!
    Well it was a hard way to be introduced into the breeding world... but I learned a lot out of it and I was prepared after this one for about anything that could happen.

    But to answer your question this mare who was 18 at the time went on to have three more foals and was retired at 22 still breeding sound. The second mare have been used as an embryo donnors but the surrogate lost the foals twice. Now last year she didn't conceived for reason that had not much to do with her. I will try again this year but I am confident she will conceive and carry her foal . We will see.
    Suzanne
    bloomingtonfarm.com
    Breeder of Royal Dutch Sport Horse



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2004
    Location
    Fleetwood, PA
    Posts
    2,523

    Default

    I had a mare who lost a colt at 316 days, dead a few days before he came out. It was a bad dystocia, and she had a retained placenta, but she recovered and had foals just fine since then.

    So sorry about your foal. It is never easy.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 4, 2011
    Location
    Bahama, NC
    Posts
    519

    Default

    Savvy I know of someone here in NC looking for a nurse mare, PM me if you want me to pass along your info.

    I'm sorry for your loss



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
    Location
    Staunton, VA
    Posts
    344

    Default

    Thanks for the encoraging words on breeding again - I think I
    am going to try one more time!



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
    Location
    Staunton, VA
    Posts
    344

    Default

    Wow - that is terrible - so sorry for your experiences!

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    Nobody makes it out unscathed if you breed more than a foal or two. I had one that had an intussecption and had surgery at 3 and 5 days old and another who was born with no eyes. One broke his pelvis during the birth. They all survived except the no eyes one who spent his ten hours of life screaming for his dam who was standing right next to him and throwing himself into the stall walls. Hopefully you got your bad luck out of the way and it will be smooth sailing from here on out. Godspeed little one.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
    Location
    Staunton, VA
    Posts
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    Default

    Thanks Sid - I am glad to know it probably was not fescue - if it was, I would blame myself..... There are absolutely no trees in the field she was in, so I doubt it was catepillars. Would you breed her again if it was your mare - do you think 19 is too old? She is in good health and pretty spunky still....

    You know this mare - I brought her and her 2008 foal to your RPSI inspection - he was the big, clunky bay colt by Westporte, the mare is dark bay with a white face - Savoir Faire. That son is now 5 and almost 18 hands, but a sweet, gorgeous boy and a lovely mover - I sold him to a dressage home


    Quote Originally Posted by sid View Post
    There is another thread on the tent catepillar problem again this year.

    Typically a mare with fescue toxicosis goes way over term and we usually see the problem in VA in the very late spring and early summer -- as bluegrass and orchard and other grasses come of first and horses will avoid fescue unless it's the last thing left to graze. Unless that's all they have. Since she's had no problems in the past, I would assume that was not the problem in this case.

    Could just be "nature's way". Even so, it's always a heartbreak.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    19,885

    Default

    I would biospy her uterus before deciding whether or not to breed her back again. Assuming that along with the culture and cytology was ok, I would breed her again.



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