The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 58
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct. 30, 2009
    Posts
    1,944

    Default

    Suddenly the horse expands and fills the saddle flaps just a bit more.
    "I've spent most of my life riding horses. The rest I've just wasted". - Anonymous


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec. 20, 2009
    Posts
    3,371

    Default

    Dressage Rider - I dont think I did my best description re my mare's roundness - first off, we are in rehab mode, so not doing much collection right how. Second, maresy can be stiff/tight at the base of her neck and will then want to come up off the bit. When we get loose and rounder thru our rides, she relaxes those muscles, and softens that underside. It is her "Ahhh" point, from which everything becomes easy. Dropping the neck was probably a bad choice of words.

    I compare it to my pilates classes where the trainer says "relax your neck and shoulders. "!
    We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan. 5, 2009
    Location
    Central, FL
    Posts
    922

    Default

    I describe and feel roundness as the ability for the horse to carry me and not the other way around. It is evident in flawless upward transitions as well as down. When I'm carried up to the canter and down to the trot, without losing any forward momentum.
    --Luck is what happens when preparedness meets opportunity--



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2010
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    6,374

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lost_at_C View Post
    Just a wee caveat to the descriptions that mention lightness in front, or a "disappearing" forehand... this is true for most horses but for those with a naturally elevated front end or a tendency to curl behind the contact, the feeling of roundness can actually be accompanied by a greater awareness of the front end, as the horse offers connection to the rider's hand and stretches round and consistent throughout its whole body. Nitpicking I know... but I commonly ride so-called "baroque" breeds and they're wonderful at prancing around all light and arched in front with no genuine connection whatsoever.
    I don't understand the "disappearing" front end. As my horse rounds and uses his whole topline his neck becomes more rounded overall, yes, and depending if he was trying to lift his neck and hollow his back his head might be lower - but through virtue of his hind end rounding under him, his front end seems to grow in length, not disappear. Or is disappearing referring to horses who are too heavy in contact normally?
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul. 4, 2000
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,844

    Default

    "Bucking back' is the shorthand my trainer uses. I feel the lift and power coming up into my seat (and sometimes have a micro-panic moment of 'buck or not?') If I funnel that lift and power, life gets quite lovely.

    *star*
    "Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit."
    - Desiderata, (c) Max Ehrman, 1926



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr. 22, 2011
    Location
    the Armpit of the Nation
    Posts
    3,173

    Default

    I think of 2 things -first the lifting of the back which feels like I'm sitting almost on the haunches, and am sucked into the horse's back.

    Second its that marvelous telescoped neck, starting from the withers. That light but powerful solidness which remains whether bent left or right - you feel the connection throughout the body. NOT waterskiing, but pushing a living baby stroller (if you correctly HH and make adjustments )



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov. 23, 2001
    Location
    Catharpin, Virginia
    Posts
    6,721

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by right horse at the right time View Post
    Let me clarify the draw reins thing. Trainer is wonderful and very smart - not just in training horse, but in getting inside my head. We used the draw reins for a very short time in part of one lesson to teach ME something, not horse. I do appreciate the feedback, and I know that everyone has his or her own idea about draw reins and other such things.
    If you are a newbie and using draw reins from time to time, be careful not to confuse "lighter or less heavy in the bridle" with the horse starting to "curl" or getting behind the bit. Yes, it can "feel softer", the horse can seem "rounder" but it can be false -- actually an evasion that eventually can be very hard to break.



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec. 23, 2010
    Location
    Lancashire UK, formerly Region 8
    Posts
    662

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by netg View Post
    I don't understand the "disappearing" front end. As my horse rounds and uses his whole topline his neck becomes more rounded overall, yes, and depending if he was trying to lift his neck and hollow his back his head might be lower - but through virtue of his hind end rounding under him, his front end seems to grow in length, not disappear. Or is disappearing referring to horses who are too heavy in contact normally?
    I'm guessing that's the case, and that's why I wanted to clarify for any novices who might be reading. My first reaction to the word 'disappearing' was 'GAAARRGHH!' but on reflection I think it's just a case of relativity.
    Proud COTH lurker since 2001.



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2006
    Posts
    3,505

    Default

    Reading most of this would confuse anyone!

    I would say to the OP the trainer is trying to help you learn to supple (I wont comment on use of draws).

    When you supple a horse he may be more round in the neck alone and soft in the body. I think this is a good goal. Obedient, relaxed, supple.

    Learning more about bend and other things is good too if you also learn rhythm which you may already have?

    What a lot of people here are describing (i think hmmm) is impulsion and collection. WAY WAY in the future. LOL

    For now you just keep a nice gentle relaxed tempo as you learn a bit of "round" aka softer lines. Figures, and bending.
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2010
    Posts
    1,749

    Default

    Eventually you will feel like there is communication going on through the horse's mouth - from you to the horse and from the horse to you. Not pulling, not ducking contact, but you lightly telling the horse this is where you need to be - and the horse asking back - is this where you want me? You can actually see the horse's withers pop up, feel the back lift (to get a taste of that early on - ask your trainer to lift the horse's back by pushing his stomach up while you are sitting on him). Another good sample of the feeling of the back lifting - when the horse poops - it lifts its back!

    It takes a long time to get to the feeling - and it comes and goes, but that is how I think of it...

    Draw reins won't get you that feeling but sometimes they can help TELL the horse this is where I want you (there is no 2-way communication going in draw reins).



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Aug. 5, 2012
    Location
    OH
    Posts
    87

    Default

    For me, the starting stages of round is the feeling of the horse letting go. The horse becomes soft in the hand, willing to go forward, and you can feel a little lift in the shoulders. The gaits get smoother with a clockwork tempo.

    Some horses need extra help when learning to travel round and may require extra hold (never without leg first) to maintain it for more than a minute or so. I'm guessing the draw reins were there to offer the horse clear, stable support without having to necessarily rely upon the learning rider's feel and judgement, sort of like side reins. As long as you're not cranking the horse's nose in with it, just lightly supporting, not a problem.



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2003
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    6,367

    Default

    It feels like the horse's back is lifting up and filling in the area under your seat. You literally feel like the horse is being pumped up full of air and you and the saddle are lifted up by his back.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 2001
    Posts
    9,860

    Default

    I don't understand the "disappearing" front end.
    Yeah me either. True roundness comes when the horse is connected from tail to tongue. I do a fair amount of yoga and tai chi, so visualizing things that way is easy for me. It feels like the horse's center of mass is right in front of my lower dantian.
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.



  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2003
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    6,367

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by netg View Post
    I don't understand the "disappearing" front end. As my horse rounds and uses his whole topline his neck becomes more rounded overall, yes, and depending if he was trying to lift his neck and hollow his back his head might be lower - but through virtue of his hind end rounding under him, his front end seems to grow in length, not disappear. Or is disappearing referring to horses who are too heavy in contact normally?
    I think that the contact--the feeling in the reins-- stays roughly the same. But when the horse's withers really come up then it feels as though they raise up higher than the head and neck.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller



  15. #35
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2005
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    10,799

    Thumbs up

    Sometimes in the search for "round" the cart gets before the horse.

    I have found that if a student is allowed to progress to the point of riding correct 10 m circles , the horse will of it's own volition come light in the hand, if the hand is educated to accept it. If the student rides the circle as they should they are not using the inside rein, and they suddenly find that they can loop that inside rein, and not only will the horse stay on the circle, he will go a tad bit deeper seeking the contact. That is when the student will know she truly has round.

    Sometimes the coiled spring analogy is more accurate, when you start into second and third levels, and the student horse combo has mastered the lateral exercises.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2012
    Posts
    2,067

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by merrygoround View Post
    Sometimes in the search for "round" the cart gets before the horse.

    I have found that if a student is allowed to progress to the point of riding correct 10 m circles , the horse will of it's own volition come light in the hand, if the hand is educated to accept it. If the student rides the circle as they should they are not using the inside rein, and they suddenly find that they can loop that inside rein, and not only will the horse stay on the circle, he will go a tad bit deeper seeking the contact. That is when the student will know she truly has round.

    Sometimes the coiled spring analogy is more accurate, when you start into second and third levels, and the student horse combo has mastered the lateral exercises.
    The first one - THAT'S IT! That's what I felt! And in the middle of doing 10 m circles (hopefully correctly - trainer was explaining to me to sort of leg yield him out from my leg). He went deeper, although I connected that with an imaginary planned buck from sweet horse who clearly was doing what he was supposed to be doing . (And what trainer told me at the time!)

    And it totally makes sense that I didn't feel the coiled spring, as I don't have that yet! There are fleeting moments with me, and when trainer rides horse I can see that often, but not with me. But that's okay, because we aren't there yet. I'm patient .

    Sneaking looks at COTH from work here - loving reading this. NOMI - I think we are at the rhythm and bending as well - not impulsion/collection/etc. Again, I'm patient. I want to do this right from the start. Too hard to unlearn bad habits. I want to do this the real way!
    LarkspurCO: no horse's training is complete until it can calmly yet expressively perform GP in stadium filled w/chainsaw juggling zombies riding unicycles while flying monkeys w/bottle rockets...



  17. #37
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2008
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    3,834

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CFFarm View Post
    Suddenly the horse expands and fills the saddle flaps just a bit more.
    This. I can feel when mine, who has a natural overtrack, is really lifting his back and engaging behind, because I suddenly feel more fullness under my seat and thighs, and a lighter, but steadier contact in my hands. I am blessed to have a horse with good natural gaits who will come round on his own, as I have little talent for influencing his movement, but I know its happening because anyone watching from the ground will comment on his improved movement at the same moment I'm feeling it.
    Lowly Farm Hand with Delusions of Barn Biddieom.
    Witherun Farm
    http://witherun-farm.blogspot.com/



  18. #38
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2005
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    10,799

    Default

    The first one - THAT'S IT! That's what I felt! And in the middle of doing 10 m circles (hopefully correctly - trainer was explaining to me to sort of leg yield him out from my leg). He went deeper, although I connected that with an imaginary planned buck from sweet horse who clearly was doing what he was supposed to be doing . (And what trainer told me at the time!)-rhrt

    In order to maintain that feeling, as you leg yield out from the circle, maintain the same bend. Get that organized, and you are on your way to learning S/I.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.



  19. #39
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2010
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    6,374

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    I think that the contact--the feeling in the reins-- stays roughly the same. But when the horse's withers really come up then it feels as though they raise up higher than the head and neck.
    Huh. I guess my horse's withers aren't really up in my profile pic... given how uphill he already gets, I look forward to the day they really come up then.

    I think it has a lot to do with a horse's natural balance and shape, but there's a reason GP horses don't carry their heads below the withers...
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2000
    Location
    Proud owner of one Lunar acre! (Campanus Crater, The Moon)
    Posts
    14,174

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ShotenStar View Post
    "Bucking back' is the shorthand my trainer uses. I feel the lift and power coming up into my seat (and sometimes have a micro-panic moment of 'buck or not?') If I funnel that lift and power, life gets quite lovely.

    *star*
    For a beginning rider who's sat on a bucking horse, this is a good one!
    "Relinquish your whip!!"


    1 members found this post helpful.

Similar Threads

  1. helping the horse develop the elusive roundness
    By Jumpmuncher123 in forum Hunter/Jumper
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Jun. 4, 2012, 04:31 PM
  2. Replies: 35
    Last Post: Oct. 28, 2011, 03:46 PM
  3. How to describe this saddle
    By Trevelyan96 in forum Off Course
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Aug. 6, 2011, 07:08 AM
  4. How do you describe spicy, but not explosive. . .
    By Zydeco Sport Horses in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: Oct. 29, 2009, 08:46 AM
  5. Please describe the 'bathtub' method
    By winter in forum Hunter/Jumper
    Replies: 91
    Last Post: Jun. 1, 2008, 02:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •