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  1. #21
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    Sep. 13, 2011
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    I do not think the trainer knows her real age or was hiding it. There is very limited info on USEF so it appears the previous owner didn't know anything either. It has probably just been estimated for who knows how long since her papers were lost. It does seem like she is in fact 17 (or 16 if born late) though since Holsteiner mares with "L" names were foaled in 1996.

    American Holsteiner registry wasn't able to give me much info and she isn't in their database. She has life # branded under her Holsteiner brand which apparently means she was imported.



  2. #22
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    ........
    Last edited by horsietalk; Apr. 9, 2013 at 09:21 PM.



  3. #23
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    Sep. 26, 2008
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    she is an upper teen mare of unknown breeding that is going to be going down the levels in her career, not up and will more than likely be needing maintenance within the year
    she is not a good broodmare prospect due to age and unknown breeding

    no more than $5000
    at this point being a Warmblood doesn't matter, its a moot point


    4 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    Jan. 9, 2013
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    What is her experience and temperament? Is she an experienced campaigner who can pack a amateur around a decent sized course or is she a nervous older mare whose mileage has mostly been at home? If she is exquisitely trained with an excellent, even personality she will still command some market value since there is definitely a demographic out there looking for a gentle packer. I'd still guess not more than $5k, though.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
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    Jun. 24, 2004
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    First impression from the video? Horse has a very developed under neck and is traveling upside down. Seems as if the rider had to see-saw her mouth to get her to slow down at the end. Horse not "on the aids." And horse is going over a short 2 foot-course.
    So considering the trainer already fibbed on her age (knowingly or not) I'd like to see RECENT videos and show records for 3 + foot courses if that is what she is being marketed as, especially for $10,000.
    What are your goals with her?
    A friend told me I was delusional. I almost fell off my unicorn.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
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    Oct. 2, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by RugBug View Post
    I absolutely disagree with this. Training level is far easier on a horse than jumping. 1st level is probably similar to 2'6".
    There are many serviceably sound or stiff-moving horses that can do a low course. This type of riding doesn't require that the horse step well under himself or move through his back. It's more like go straight, turn, jump, go straight, turn jump, etc. Training level is asking for impulsion and connection. You must practice twenty meter circles repeatedly, and then there's the sharp turning in the corner. It isn't just flat work.
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
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    Sep. 13, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by blame_the_champagne View Post
    What is her experience and temperament? Is she an experienced campaigner who can pack a amateur around a decent sized course or is she a nervous older mare whose mileage has mostly been at home? If she is exquisitely trained with an excellent, even personality she will still command some market value since there is definitely a demographic out there looking for a gentle packer. I'd still guess not more than $5k, though.
    She is very calm and sweet. I honestly wasn't even expecting to buy another horse until I rode her and fell in love with her demeanor. A very petite 7 year old rides her sometimes and begged me to ride her when she saw me getting her out, so after a ride on her I let her on (with mothers and trainers permission of course) and the girl just rode her flat and did everything she asked.



  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEARCAT View Post
    First impression from the video? Horse has a very developed under neck and is traveling upside down. Seems as if the rider had to see-saw her mouth to get her to slow down at the end. Horse not "on the aids." And horse is going over a short 2 foot-course.
    So considering the trainer already fibbed on her age (knowingly or not) I'd like to see RECENT videos and show records for 3 + foot courses if that is what she is being marketed as, especially for $10,000.
    What are your goals with her?
    She jumps up to 3 foot, not doing 3 + courses. She is a little on the excited side in that video jumping on the grass. That was her first time doing that. As for the under neck is that something that can be worked on with getting her in shape? I do believe she is a little out of shape right now and needs to lose some weight.

    My goals: I am an adult re-rider and like to just have fun. I am more than happy just riding flat and that is usually what I stick to. It has been probably a year+ since I last jumped and that was on an older steady eddy I rode at the time, who even then still tested me (don't they all though?) I get too nervous to jump but I would love to jump again: hunter paces and small stuff. Totally fine staying under 3 feet as that looks huge now! I want a safe horse I can walk around the property on my own, do some trail riding, hack around in the xc field flat and on the racetrack (slow of course!) Possibly take some dressage lessons now and then. Maybe some home horse shows. I bought a show outfit 2 years ago and have yet to show because I am a wuss even though I had a horse to then. Sweet, nice and safe horse. Basically a confidence builder!

    If I feel like riding more of a challenge there are plenty of greenies and ottb types for me to do so in this barn. lol



  9. #29
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    Jan. 9, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsietalk View Post
    My goals: I am an adult re-rider and like to just have fun. I am more than happy just riding flat and that is usually what I stick to. It has been probably a year+ since I last jumped and that was on an older steady eddy I rode at the time, who even then still tested me (don't they all though?) I get too nervous to jump but I would love to jump again: hunter paces and small stuff. Totally fine staying under 3 feet as that looks huge now! I want a safe horse I can walk around the property on my own, do some trail riding, hack around in the xc field flat and on the racetrack (slow of course!) Possibly take some dressage lessons now and then. Maybe some home horse shows. I bought a show outfit 2 years ago and have yet to show because I am a wuss even though I had a horse to then. Sweet, nice and safe horse. Basically a confidence builder!
    She actually sounds like a good fit for you. How much are they asking? I'm just worried because the trainer sounds a little shady. What was the feeling you got from him/her? As long as she's reasonably sound, she should suit your needs. I would definitely do a basic vetting (don't expect perfection, but don't trust the trainer either). The most important thing is that you said you had a blast riding her and were comfortable with her. Huge points in my book.



  10. #30
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    Try to find out more about her show mileage / background. If has been heavily used and jumped hard/high, I might be more concerned about her age. If not, a sturdy seventeen doesn't seem too old to me. She probably has several good riding years ahead of her, especially given your goals.



  11. #31
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    She has shown pretty consecutively back to 2009. Her show name is Lilikoi and results can be found on horseshowtime.com. All mostly 3" jumpers.



  12. #32
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    I agree she looksmvery out of shape. No top line and actually sinks behind the saddle. Neck is underdeveloped and yes all this can be worked on and improved but not for 10k at her age either. Nor the way she goes around the course. She looks easy enough but maybe not as easy as you need from what your saying. I would pay tops 4k for her after the video. Why not find a packer qh type or tb were you may get more bang for your buck in age and training for 10k?
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole


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  13. #33
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    I wouldn't be paying 10k for her, I'd pay 5k.



  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    There are many serviceably sound or stiff-moving horses that can do a low course. This type of riding doesn't require that the horse step well under himself or move through his back. It's more like go straight, turn, jump, go straight, turn jump, etc. Training level is asking for impulsion and connection. You must practice twenty meter circles repeatedly, and then there's the sharp turning in the corner. It isn't just flat work.
    Um, thanks. I know what dressage is..and there are plenty of serviceably sound horses competing in it. If your flat work isn't worthy of training level dressage you might wan to up your game. We'll just leave it at that because your ridiculous bias is showing.
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"


    5 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
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    Sep. 27, 2000
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    If you can see the brand well enough you should be able to tell if she was born here or Europe as the brands are different. The ones born here have a NA with the brand (http://www.holsteiner.com).

    She may be microchipped which may, in turn, allow you to ID her.

    Two price points:

    A friend bought a horse with a somewhat similar story and background (but was 16 years old vs the 14 he was supposed to be) and definitely paid less than $10K. Based on the video, he is an easier ride, but there were vetting issues.

    My trainers now 19 y.o. Westphalian was given to her about a year and a half ago. Out of shape. Definite soundness issues, but maintainable ones. He was a 1.2-1.3-m jumper back in the day. He has a hard to non-existent lead change, depending on the day. I've jumped him up to 3'3". He's taught others to jump. He is a saint.
    The Evil Chem Prof



  16. #36
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    Oct. 13, 2011
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    I sold my 17 year old mare.. Registered.. Total packer.. H/J, 3-Day.. Do it all mare for $6000k. We had her priced at 10k but took the offer because it was a GREAT home, and she was starting to get arthritis. Owners knew, stayed with my trainer.. All's well that ends well. I would say her your offer you are comfortable with. 10k is a great starting price for an older packer, but I don't think you would be insulting offering less either.



  17. #37
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    Sep. 27, 2000
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    Just looking at the Horseshowtime record (which will show many of the county shows and quite a few of the USEF shows) there are a couple of gaps in her record that I would ask about. Sometimes that indicates a layup for an injury. Caveat- when you combine the Horseshowtime with the USEF record there may not be as many gaps. She has definitely done more than just county-level shows and up to 1.1-m, but not real recently.

    You can play around a bit with Horseshowtime as pretty much everything is a hyperlink. So, you can click on the names of the shows, pull up the Entries for the show and figure out which trainers she's been with
    The Evil Chem Prof



  18. #38
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    Sep. 13, 2011
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    She has had atleast two foals so maybe that could be some of the gaps. I talked to a trainer tonight that knew of her from 2004-2009. She had nothing but nice things to say about her and will reach out to her owner in 2004 to see if she can get more info. She will also give me some info on her foals because the people who bred her still have them and they are showing all around in Southern CA.



  19. #39
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    I had thought about the possibility of foals. Perhaps the people who bred her and/or have her foals may have papers or something that will help you to get an age on her. I have a friend who has shown in and around the San Diego area for a number of years and knows the agent. I can ask her if she knows the mare if you want.
    The Evil Chem Prof



  20. #40
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    Jun. 30, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by RugBug View Post
    Um, thanks. I know what dressage is..and there are plenty of serviceably sound horses competing in it. If your flat work isn't worthy of training level dressage you might wan to up your game. We'll just leave it at that because your ridiculous bias is showing.
    I'm with Bristol Bay on this one - there is no way that mare is going 1st Level ... Training Level sure, & you can ride her through the "steps" of a 1st Level test but she'll still be a TL horse.
    She could certainly improve with correct training/riding & likely would appear less stiff with appropriate vet support.

    horsietalk I'd do a thorough PPE & then decide on a price that works for you.



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