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  1. #21
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    I just saw this in my facebook feed...

    http://www.paulickreport.com/feature...ay-many-hands/
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    I just saw this in my facebook feed...

    http://www.paulickreport.com/feature...ay-many-hands/
    What an appropriate time for that to come out.

    Let's remember that in spite of all of the bad press that the TB industry is one of the very few breed associations that are being proactive about this problem. Add in the recent interest in the all TB shows and the TB as an all around athlete, things are looking up..


    8 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    Sep. 18, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    Yes, they have tried to self-police the TBs to avoid the SH. But in reality, recent investigations have found that many of the retired TBs which were sent to wonderful retirement homes where they could run in lush pastures, actually went to holding farms where they were starved to death!
    So, choose the future wisely. To a 'retirement' home where they may linger for months before dying, or the SH where one, painless impact from the bolt gun ends its suffering!
    Neither is a very nice alternative!

    where did you get the idea the 'one, painless impact from the bolt gun ends its suffering'...??

    how about saying within XX hours 'their suffering is over'...that may be days in a holding pen, 1-2 or more auctions, a trailer trip crammed with other horses or 2 or 3 trips, regardless of sex for XX hours, run thru a chute then hopefully killed instantly rather than being just stunned and alive while being eviserated.. I think that is more reality.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    Jun. 30, 2011
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    Uphill,
    It doesn't sound like you've ever been to a SH. Your post sounds like a direct copy from a Wayne Pacelle speech. One instance of each of your points may have occurred over the past 100 years, but hsus and the rara's condense them all together to make it sound bizarrely cruel. Please educate yourself. Take a look at the Canadian operation!
    If so many people keep drinking that hsus koolaid, discussion is pointless. That is exactly what Wayne wants. 'One generation and out' is all he cares about.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
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    Jul. 19, 2007
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    Michigan
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineAlready View Post
    Ah, my mistake. I don't think a rule that only prevents direct sale to slaughter really prevents much at all, unfortunately.
    But it does prevent owners/trainers being held responsible for something someone five owners later does. If it were the case that they were responsible no matter how long it had been, the smart thing would be shoot it the minute its last race was over because that's the only way to guarantee it never, ever changes hands again. You can't hold someone responsible for another person's actions just because they own property you once owned.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
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    Sep. 24, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judysmom View Post
    No.

    Again, check into the rule at which ever specific track its is you are concerned about, but the rules are intended to prevent the owner/trainer from SELLING DIRECTLY TO SLAUGHTER.

    If Joe Schmo buys the horse, and then sells it to slaughter, no problem. If the owner/ trainer sells DIRECTLY to the kill buyer, THEN the owner/trainer can get banned from the track. This is not a lifetime prohibition from selling to slaughter for the horse.
    This exactly.

    It also has nothing to do with selling at auction. There are some well known TB auctions that sell horses that are done their racing career as breeding prospects. (Fasig-Tipton is one). These horses usually have a reserve put on them and have value as breeding animals.

    So the 'rule' is not selling at auction per se, but selling to slaughter. If a racing owner takes the horse to a low-end auction with no reserve and they end up going to slaughter, then the track holds the racing owner responsible for that. Of course that's if they get caught.



  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineAlready View Post
    Not really. I think most track policies basically say that IF a horse that ended its career at their track EVER later ends up at slaughter, the owner/trainer of that horse will be permanently banned from racing future horses at that track.
    Tracks have timeframes attached to such rules. The idea is to prevent on track trainers from selling horses from the backstretches to the kill buyers. If a trainer sold or gave away a horse 10 years ago and it turned up in an aution or killpen, it's hard to hold that trainer responsible.

    Once you own a horse, legally you can do whatever you want with him. Sadly many people have taken horses for free off the tracks with promises of
    green pastures, plenty of downtime to ease old ailments or happy trail rides only to send them (still in racing plates) to shady auctions.
    F O.B
    Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
    Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique



  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    Uphill,
    It doesn't sound like you've ever been to a SH. Your post sounds like a direct copy from a Wayne Pacelle speech. One instance of each of your points may have occurred over the past 100 years, but hsus and the rara's condense them all together to make it sound bizarrely cruel. Please educate yourself. Take a look at the Canadian operation!
    If so many people keep drinking that hsus koolaid, discussion is pointless. That is exactly what Wayne wants. 'One generation and out' is all he cares about.
    Sometimes even Wayne is right. Even Temple Grandin has admitted that the horse slaughter houses should be monitored by outsiders constantly. And if you don't believe there are plenty of grisly videos and testimony on the net showing it. Now do ALL of the horses suffer like this? No, some live close by, some are sold directly to the plant, some are lucky enough to get through the whole pipeline relatively unscathed and SOMETIMES the guy with the bolt or the gun actually kills them outright right away, however unusual it is. Note a bolt gun is not SUPPOSED to kill them simply render them unconscious but sadly horses normally wake up within about 30 seconds and are often very much aware when they are hung up. It is also extremely painful for them vs. ruminants which usually are rendered unconscious and stay that way. I was disturbed to read that more of the Canadian plants were going to the bolt gun versus a real gun. I HOPE that is not true although one of them was caught shooting horses with the door to the kill box open and horses behind him. Doesn't take a genius to figure out how badly wrong that could go.
    Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

    Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
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    Jun. 30, 2006
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    SF Bay Area, California
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    Remember the story of Cactus Cafe and Canuki?

    The case of Canuki and Cactus Cafe is nearing its conclusion, at least for the horses. The two Thoroughbreds became famous in May when their surprising return from the Richelieu slaughterhouse in Canada led the horsemeat company to stop accepting Thoroughbreds and raised questions about the effectiveness of racetrack anti-slaughter policies.

    http://www.drf.com/news/banned-train...aughter-policy
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
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    I know of one track that had to relax it's policy on taking horses directly to slaughter because of all the dead horses in the river bottom with their upper lips cut off. It was creating a public health hazard. The policy is still there, but not enforced at all.
    From AliCat518 "Seriously, why would you NOT put fried chicken in your purse?!"



  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    I just saw this in my facebook feed...

    http://www.paulickreport.com/feature...ay-many-hands/
    Thanks for sharing this, Comrade Laura. I love this quote:

    “It is our responsibility as owners, tracks, breeders, trainers, jockeys, bloodstock agents, and anyone who has a stake in the game to take responsibility for the aftercare of these great animals who are the keystone of our sport,” Wolf said at the time.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by summerhorse View Post
    Sometimes even Wayne is right. Even Temple Grandin has admitted that the horse slaughter houses should be monitored by outsiders constantly. And if you don't believe there are plenty of grisly videos and testimony on the net showing it. Now do ALL of the horses suffer like this? No, some live close by, some are sold directly to the plant, some are lucky enough to get through the whole pipeline relatively unscathed and SOMETIMES the guy with the bolt or the gun actually kills them outright right away, however unusual it is. Note a bolt gun is not SUPPOSED to kill them simply render them unconscious but sadly horses normally wake up within about 30 seconds and are often very much aware when they are hung up. It is also extremely painful for them vs. ruminants which usually are rendered unconscious and stay that way. I was disturbed to read that more of the Canadian plants were going to the bolt gun versus a real gun. I HOPE that is not true although one of them was caught shooting horses with the door to the kill box open and horses behind him. Doesn't take a genius to figure out how badly wrong that could go.
    You are just saying what animal rights activists have been stating..the bolt allows them to awaken and be gutted alive. DOES NOT HAPPEN. In four years monitoring I saw fewer than 25 cases where an emergency procedure had to be followed. There is the immediate impact of the second spear bolt definitely destroys the brain. All that is required is for the heart to keep pumping the blood out. The twitching projected as horse is still alive is just the horse twitching.

    The industry has grown, changed, has a different mindset and work mantra. In Canada the industry is very well monitored by volunteers (I was one).

    I guess if the lie is told enough times it circles the globe 10 times before the truth wakes up.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
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    Jul. 24, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by caffeinated View Post
    I don't know of any tracks that would have a forever prohibition on horses going to slaughter/auctions. Most that do have rules just prohibit the trainer/owner from selling directly to slaughter. The tracks that we deal with do investigate if horses end up at New Holland or other area "high kill" type auctions, as to how the horse got there. The frustrating thing is if the race owner can say they sold or gave the horse to someone in good faith, they can't really be held accountable (even when there's good indication they knew exactly what they were doing). If horses from one trainer show up repeatedly on 'broker listings' or similar, they can get in trouble. Either way the track rules about this are hard - they are not easy to enforce as there are often third parties involved (and sometimes fourth and fifth parties, even in the space of a week), and also because they encourage people who want to get rid of horses fast to just sort of "disappear" them - sending them with dealers with strict instructions not to try and sell the horse (at auction or otherwise) so they don't get caught (instead going direct to kill). Some tracks will consider a sale to certain dealers they know of the same as sending a horse directly to auction or slaughter, but there's always more people willing to pick up horses for a cheap buck so it's hard to keep up with (and some trainers really are misled or duped, been involved in a few of those situations)



    CANTER only screens purchasers if the horse has been donated to us and is part of our retraining programs.
    Exactly this.
    "When a horse greets you with a nicker & regards you with a large & liquid eye, the question of where you want to be & what you want to do has been answered." CANTER New England



  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    You are just saying what animal rights activists have been stating..the bolt allows them to awaken and be gutted alive. DOES NOT HAPPEN. In four years monitoring I saw fewer than 25 cases where an emergency procedure had to be followed. There is the immediate impact of the second spear bolt definitely destroys the brain. All that is required is for the heart to keep pumping the blood out. The twitching projected as horse is still alive is just the horse twitching.

    The industry has grown, changed, has a different mindset and work mantra. In Canada the industry is very well monitored by volunteers (I was one).

    I guess if the lie is told enough times it circles the globe 10 times before the truth wakes up.

    Sorry but this is the truth and it is a published study (or more than one now) and you can google it and read it all for yourself. Bolt guns are designed for Cows and sheep and works well on them. It is not designed for horses and does not work very well on them. This is the TRUTH.

    They better not be gutted alive though, they are supposed to be bled out first.
    Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

    Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
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    As for volunteer monitoring that is probably as usefull as our fire inspectorl monitoring was at my previous job when the inspector would call and say I'm coming out on THIS DATE. About THIS TIME. Yeah do you thnk he EVER found anything wrong? The films taken with hidden cameras tell the tale and the industry as a whole has been found lacking.
    Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

    Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    The industry may have been lacking in security and pre-employment checks, but that is about all. Who would have anticipated that a person would come begging for a job, then set about committing severe abuses while filming one another! That is so abnormal to most folks, but it is exactly the modus operandi of the AR groups.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
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    The policies at the tracks are only as good as the people behind them.
    At many of the tracks the burden of proving the trainer/owner knew that the horses was headed to a bad place is such that there's no punishment and it ends up being nothing more than lip service.

    Do the tracks and TB industry do more then the AQHA and other organizations? Sure, but there's a lot of room for improvement and as always the money talks.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustbreeches View Post
    I know of one track that had to relax it's policy on taking horses directly to slaughter because of all the dead horses in the river bottom with their upper lips cut off. It was creating a public health hazard. The policy is still there, but not enforced at all.
    Ye gods. I think I just threw up in my mouth a little. If this is the kind of scumbags you pro-slaughter people want to jump into bed with, have at it, but leave the rest of us OUT of it please.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by summerhorse View Post
    Sorry but this is the truth and it is a published study (or more than one now) and you can google it and read it all for yourself. Bolt guns are designed for Cows and sheep and works well on them. It is not designed for horses and does not work very well on them. This is the TRUTH.

    They better not be gutted alive though, they are supposed to be bled out first.
    Please tell us which slaughter plant you have been to in the past seven years?
    Monitoring goes on EVERY DAY there is a kill floor operation AND the horses are filmed from the intial time into the chute to the final hoist to move the carcas from the killing floor to the area for cutting.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #40
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    If you just hate slaughter and all aspects you will, like some on the boards, try and restrict all aspects of ownership and equine movement. It is not just slaughter they hate..it is the FACT that they can not MAKE others do as they say.

    Nothing in the world is 100 percent however this is what THEY demand

    The anti group commenting the most have NEVER been to Canada nor to any slaughter plant by their own admissions on other threads. (here on COTH)

    I accept slaughter "as an option" and I have worked hard to make sure horses getting dead are treated in a kind manner. I do not try and ban anyone nor stop them from what it is they are doing.

    Slaughter is NOT against the law however those who are anti try every trick in the book U Davis etc to make their WISHES into law.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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