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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Apr. 3, 2006
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    That be the problem. No one knows if they are harmful long term. Kinda like asbestos.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2002
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    It scares me. Monsanto certainly does not need protection, on the contrary. And to the people who say, "Don't like GMOs? Don't buy them", it's easier said than done. How can I be sure the corn ears I buy aren't GMO? How do you know that your Tofu isn't made with GMO soy? etc. etc.

    Does "Organic" equal "non GMO"?

    I wish there was a label "GMO" or "non-GMO" on all produce / products.
    In France the "AB" (Agriculture Biologique") label ensures that the produce is 100% organic and 99.1% OGM-free - the .9% is allowed for "fortuitous contamination". I don't think there's anything like this here in the US?

    We just don't know how GMOs affect human health. There has been one recent non-Monsanto funded study on rats that shows that rats fed GMO corn were getting tumors and dying at a much higher rate than the control, non-GMO group.
    There is just a lot of uncertainty / disinformation and Monsanto is not forthcoming at all, which of course adds to the problem.
    Ottbs - The finish line is only the beginning!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Mar. 22, 2005
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    Where it is perpetually winter
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    Of course, part of the problem is that mouse models aren't always accurate when it comes to using them to extrapolate what will happen with people; for one thing, mice have significantly longer telomeres than people do (continuous expression of hTERT whereas humans do not express it normally past a certain point).

    You can induce things in mice that aren't induced in people (introducing immortality in mouse cells only requires introduction of the SV40 large T antigen, whereas in human cells, you have to introduce SV40 large T and hTERT) - and it takes a lot of transformations to make human cells be tumorigenic in mice.

    Agreed with the people who think that the whole organic, small farm movement is nice in theory but not practical for the vast majority of the population.

    Edited to add (since I said I wasn't going to say more on this but then did), most mouse models are immunodeficient in one way or another - there are SO many different kinds.
    Last edited by supershorty628; Apr. 4, 2013 at 08:08 PM.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2005
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    NY
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    6,242

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    Concerned? Very.



  5. #65
    Join Date
    Sep. 24, 2012
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    282

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    Quote Originally Posted by supershorty628 View Post
    Of course, part of the problem is that mouse models aren't always accurate when it comes to using them to extrapolate what will happen with people; for one thing, mice have significantly longer telomeres than people do (continuous expression of hTERT whereas humans do not express it normally past a certain point).

    You can induce things in mice that aren't induced in people (introducing immortality in mouse cells only requires introduction of the SV40 large T antigen, whereas in human cells, you have to introduce SV40 large T and hTERT) - and it takes a lot of transformations to make human cells be tumorigenic in mice.

    Agreed with the people who think that the whole organic, small farm movement is nice in theory but not practical for the vast majority of the population.

    Edited to add (since I said I wasn't going to say more on this but then did), most mouse models are immunodeficient in one way or another - there are SO many different kinds.
    Agreed, but we're using it as the model for everything else, so in that case, it cant be argued with. (trust me, I agree mouse models shouldnt be used!)

    For the cholesterol study? They used rabbits. AN HERBIVOROUS ANIMAL FOR AN OMNIVOROUS STUDY. Ugh.



  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2002
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
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    16,684

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    Quote Originally Posted by randomequine View Post
    I think I love you.



    The problem with this is it's great for you and your small operation -- but are we going to be able to feed 9 billion people by 2050 with these methods and (very expensive) Neem Oil? Can we cover 7000 acres with row covers?

    I just don't see how it can be done. And not everyone has the space and time to grow and maintain their own crops.
    Did you read that article about India? They outproduced the GMO's by over 30%. No kidding. With that kind of productivity you can do it with less land than we have in crops now. The problem is changing the way we grow food and changing the mentality of making those changes happen because we have the naysayers like you who simply can't believe it can be done despite the truth that organically run operations generally do out produce conventional farms without using toxic chemicals. We also have a big problem in that companies like Monsanto will fight tooth and nail to protect their profits and will continue to buy out our politicians to make sure laws are written in their favor while continuing to attack alternative agriculture. I don't know how it's all going to end but I suspect not well at all for us Americans at the mercy of big profit driven corps like Monsanto who don't mind using us and our nation as a big experiment.



  7. #67
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2007
    Location
    Montana
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    5,192

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    Does the phrase "Too big to fail" ring a bell?



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