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  1. #41
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    There is an ongoing problem with Bt and Roundup Ready GMO crops, which is that almost universal use has led to Superweeds and Insects. Resistance to Roundup and Bt is increasing by leaps and bounds. Farmers are often focused on short term productivity and not on long term sustainability. Roundup resistant Palmer Pigweed has been dominating our local farm press for the past three or four years. It makes several million seeds per plant.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
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  2. #42
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    The book "Silent Spring" has killed millions of people from malaria. See link .. http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/..._deaths_o.html

    Want more media scare? Google "Alar" more hysteria ! Debunked but damaging.


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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    There is an ongoing problem with Bt and Roundup Ready GMO crops, which is that almost universal use has led to Superweeds and Insects. Resistance to Roundup and Bt is increasing by leaps and bounds. Farmers are often focused on short term productivity and not on long term sustainability. Roundup resistant Palmer Pigweed has been dominating our local farm press for the past three or four years. It makes several million seeds per plant.
    Mis-use and over-use of antibiotics has created MRSA ... same principle. Deadly to people. Unlike pigweed. Guidelines for some crops now include sacrifice strips to maintain weed genetics.


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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    There is an ongoing problem with Bt and Roundup Ready GMO crops, which is that almost universal use has led to Superweeds and Insects. Resistance to Roundup and Bt is increasing by leaps and bounds. Farmers are often focused on short term productivity and not on long term sustainability. Roundup resistant Palmer Pigweed has been dominating our local farm press for the past three or four years. It makes several million seeds per plant.

    ACTUALLY ----- It is not the USE OF RoundUp Ready crops that has led to resistance. In fact, resistance by insects and weeds has come about because of not using ENOUGH.

    Before you jump, let me explain using this phrase again:

    "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger!"

    Weed resistance is caused when a farmer decides that a product has been working so well, that he maybe doesn't need to use quite as much of said product to save some money. This is foolish thinking, but it happens.

    Instead of trying to cut some costs, growers need to use the FULL RECOMMENDED RATE of Crop Protection Products in order to reduce these occurrences. There has been a huge push in the agronomy industry to educate growers about this. CPP distributors and retailers are very in-tune to the situation, and doing what they can to prevent it from happening in the future.

    The other good news about these concerns about resistance, is that with the new products we have coming to market, the rates on some are so small, you almost can't cut the rate. For example, the product "Sharpen" has a 1 oz/ac - that is ONE OUNCE PER ACRE rate. That is ONE OUNCE on 43,560 square feet!

    That is AMAZING!


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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenrow View Post
    Hogwash!

    You will not be accused of stealing. The only people who get sued for improperly using the traits are those who SIGNED a legal agreement with Monsanto, saying that they agree to NOT plant the offspring of the seeds they purchased in a Monsanto bag.
    OK but can they stop the GMO's from cross pollinating and contain the genes? If not, my organic crop is still ruined and I should be paid for my losses by someone. This HAS happened a number of times to a number of farmers and no, they've not been reimbursed for their losses.



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    It's not the theory of plant gene splicing that is scary, it's the outcome of planting genetically modified plants around the world as if it's no big deal.

    Not to mention the giant Monsanto and their "mafia" tactics (great phrase!) They are already so powerful, I am not sure why they need protection at all!

    Very scary and really disappointed in the administration for passing it.
    This. I think golden rice for example could be of great benefit in some areas however Monsanto's practices and policies scare me.

    Obama had little choice but to sign it as it was an amendment to a major spending bill
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenrow View Post
    How do I protect that bountiful harvest from the weeds that steal nutrients and cause stress? How do I protect the leaves from devastating chomping and chewing from bugs? Those nibbles open holes in the leaves, which let bacteria and fungus into my little plants. I have to protect the little guys - they can't do it themselves! And, I need to do it on a large scale. I have a say in the plants produced on over 300,000 acres.

    I can. not. find enough help to hand pick each rootworm, aphid, and stinkbug off those plants. I can. not. find enough help to hand weed every row. If I could find the help - I would charge you for it. I would charge you a lot. Because my labor bill would be outrageous!

    Now if you want to buy your vegetables from the local farmer, who did hand pick those bugs off and relocate them, go for it! He has a great business plan and a niche market. However, every season, I have to go diagnose problem organic fields that look really sad. Those poor plants have been under stress and have lesions and odd shaped seed heads and weird looking growths. Are those the guys you want to eat? No way! You want to pick out the best, healthy, strong looking ones when you go to the market.

    The other problem I see with organic farming - this is farming, not gardening - is the toll it can take on the soil. In many cases, since organic fields cannot have chemicals sprayed over the field, they cultivate and rip the soil to reduce the weeds between the row. What?!? What about no-till?!? "Save the soil! Just say 'no' to soil erosion!" For years and years, we have been taught to disturb the soil as little as possible. Wind erosion. Water erosion. Every time a soil particle is exposed, it is at risk! Cultivating is NOT a sustainable activity! It causes faster erosion, and less soil available for future generations to use to grow crops to feed your great-grandkids!

    So although you may buy unsustainable organic products, I feed the rest of the population. And I do it with GMO crops, because I can spray those crops - I can PROTECT those crops - by using herbicides that work WITH the plants, and eliminate their competition. I keep their stress levels down, your grocery bill down, and my yields up.
    I'm not sure where to start. First of all organic farmers do not pick off every bug. Quite often if the crops are not stressed there are not that many bugs to be dealt with. There are also many organically approved non persistent products that can be used like Neem Oil. I've grown my food organically for years now and I certainly don't pick off bugs one by one and generally have very little problems to begin with. There are also row covers to keep bugs off which work great for a lot of veggies. My understanding is that there are now BT resistant bugs that are killing corn...so the bugs are adapting..what next?

    Second on the soil erosion..did you ever hear of compost, organic matter, and building soil? That's how it used to be done and how it is done with true organic farming. You add back to the soil and yes, I understand erosion and tillage..which is why many organic farms will grow an undercrop to hold the soil while also enriching it. When the main crop is harvested, you then turn that crop under as green manure and further build the soil. Not only can you stop soil loss but you can rebuilt lost soil.

    Recently in India, organic farmers outproduced the GMOs by huge margins.

    http://www.naturalnews.com/039766_ri...re_yields.html

    Organic is unsustainable? And how sustainable is farming with chemicals and petroleum based fertilizers? Seriously? What next when Round up doesn't work? You escalate the chemicals like the farmers in my area are doing and create even more franken plants to grow in a stronger and stronger chemical brew. When we poison ourselves into oblivion, that is somehow sustainable?



  8. #48
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    Again we have been sold to the highest bidder. Why do you still hate Obama when he makes such a lovely doormat?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by happymom View Post
    Again we have been sold to the highest bidder. Why do you still hate Obama when he makes such a lovely doormat?
    He had little choice....sign the bill or risk a government shutdown. Perhaps you might want to look at who added the amendment to the bill Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Missouri) has been credited with crafting the language of H.R. 933 by working directly alongside Monsanto. Blunt has received $64,250 from Monsanto towards his campaign committee between 2008 and 2012.
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  10. #50
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    Here's what my dad (who has been in the agriculture/horticulture business for 40+ years and is the smartest person I know) had to say when I emailed him earlier (again, keep in mind the bias, as he is a former Monsanto employee). Bolded emphasis my own:

    "The Monsanto Protection Act is what environmentalists and anti-GMO people are calling a bill that President Obama recently signed into law. The bill was part of a bigger group of bills which was part of the legislation allowing us to fund government agencies through this year. The specific bill is actually called "Farmer Assurance" provision of the bill. It's designed to protect farmers from having to destroy or stop sale on genetically modified crops which have already been approved by the USDA for sale and consumption.

    Activists are claiming that the bill prevents them from challenging the validity of the USDA decision to allow the sales and therefore will benefit the big Ag companies like Monsanto who sell this stuff with what they consider "less than thorough testing." This is looked at by activists as too favorable and as a way to allow companies like Monsanto to avoid any liability in these cases.

    As it is written now, and unless it is acted on again separately, this bill will expire at the end of September 2013, when all the other parts of the bill also expire.

    The "Monsanto Protection Act" is the name being used to gin up support for changing this bill. I think it's now become a rallying cry for anyone who is fearful of genetic engineering. The thing is, it expires in October so it wont have any long term impact on anyone. Just a straw man for anyone who is angry about anything."
    Last edited by ybiaw; Apr. 4, 2013 at 04:51 PM. Reason: typos
    Everyone is running from something. Especially this person I'm chasing.


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  11. #51
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    carolprudm
    He had little choice..
    He CHOSE to have no choice. He has a veto pen and a mouth.


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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by happymom View Post
    He CHOSE to have no choice. He has a veto pen and a mouth.
    So you think he should have let the government shut down?
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    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    So you think he should have let the government shut down?
    Not to make this political as well but he already did let the gov't shut down when he let the sequester go through..I know a LOT of people down here in Hampton Roads who are going to be hurting badly from it. Obama likes to blame everyone else when stuff goes wrong but ultimately he's in charge and the buck stops there if you will. He could have worked out a deal to stop the sequester but he chose to campaign and point fingers and whine and cry about how awful it was going to be and how we needed to raise more taxes instead and they (the House) called his bluff. Seriously he has zero credibility IMO and not that the Republicans that supported this were in the right either. I'm disgusted with all of them. Obama however IS the one who has broken his campaign promise in a very big way in regards to GMO's and he continues to disappoint.


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  14. #54
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    May. 8, 2006
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    Northern Indiana
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenrow View Post
    As an agronomist, I work in the GMO seed research business. Just a few things to think about, from someone who works with GMO research daily:

    Organic foods are not suppose to be sprayed with "chemicals." In my world, these chemicals are called CPP's - Crop Protection Products. The key word here is PROTECTION. As a researcher and farmer myself (and a horse owner and competitor!) I know that I need to protect my plants, and therefore my yield (i.e. your food).

    How do I protect that bountiful harvest from the weeds that steal nutrients and cause stress? How do I protect the leaves from devastating chomping and chewing from bugs? Those nibbles open holes in the leaves, which let bacteria and fungus into my little plants. I have to protect the little guys - they can't do it themselves! And, I need to do it on a large scale. I have a say in the plants produced on over 300,000 acres.

    I can. not. find enough help to hand pick each rootworm, aphid, and stinkbug off those plants. I can. not. find enough help to hand weed every row. If I could find the help - I would charge you for it. I would charge you a lot. Because my labor bill would be outrageous!

    Now if you want to buy your vegetables from the local farmer, who did hand pick those bugs off and relocate them, go for it! He has a great business plan and a niche market. However, every season, I have to go diagnose problem organic fields that look really sad. Those poor plants have been under stress and have lesions and odd shaped seed heads and weird looking growths. Are those the guys you want to eat? No way! You want to pick out the best, healthy, strong looking ones when you go to the market.

    The other problem I see with organic farming - this is farming, not gardening - is the toll it can take on the soil. In many cases, since organic fields cannot have chemicals sprayed over the field, they cultivate and rip the soil to reduce the weeds between the row. What?!? What about no-till?!? "Save the soil! Just say 'no' to soil erosion!" For years and years, we have been taught to disturb the soil as little as possible. Wind erosion. Water erosion. Every time a soil particle is exposed, it is at risk! Cultivating is NOT a sustainable activity! It causes faster erosion, and less soil available for future generations to use to grow crops to feed your great-grandkids!

    So although you may buy unsustainable organic products, I feed the rest of the population. And I do it with GMO crops, because I can spray those crops - I can PROTECT those crops - by using herbicides that work WITH the plants, and eliminate their competition. I keep their stress levels down, your grocery bill down, and my yields up.

    I feed GMO corn to my livestock. My horses eat it and somehow still win at large pony shows you have all heard of. My cows eat it, birth normal healthy calves. I feed the meat from these animals, and GMO tomatoes and green beans and bananas to my family. If I had any hesitation coming from my own personal research in the field, in the lab, or on my plate, why would I continue to do it to myself and those I care about?

    I've worked with Monsanto on numerous projects. I have not been brainwashed or coerced in any way since I started. I like data and facts. And the fact is, people are healthier when they get quality, well rounded meals. A little of this and a little of that. Americans can have this variety because the food is affordable enough to buy more products. If you can afford to buy from the local guy, or pay more for organic stressed out spawn of sick plants, go for it. You are helping someone's economy. But please, do not try to limit what others get to choose to buy to feed their families.
    I think I love you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    I'm not sure where to start. First of all organic farmers do not pick off every bug. Quite often if the crops are not stressed there are not that many bugs to be dealt with. There are also many organically approved non persistent products that can be used like Neem Oil. I've grown my food organically for years now and I certainly don't pick off bugs one by one and generally have very little problems to begin with. There are also row covers to keep bugs off which work great for a lot of veggies. My understanding is that there are now BT resistant bugs that are killing corn...so the bugs are adapting..what next?

    Second on the soil erosion..did you ever hear of compost, organic matter, and building soil? That's how it used to be done and how it is done with true organic farming. You add back to the soil and yes, I understand erosion and tillage..which is why many organic farms will grow an undercrop to hold the soil while also enriching it. When the main crop is harvested, you then turn that crop under as green manure and further build the soil. Not only can you stop soil loss but you can rebuilt lost soil.
    The problem with this is it's great for you and your small operation -- but are we going to be able to feed 9 billion people by 2050 with these methods and (very expensive) Neem Oil? Can we cover 7000 acres with row covers?

    I just don't see how it can be done. And not everyone has the space and time to grow and maintain their own crops.
    To be loved by a horse should fill us with awe, for we hath not deserved it.


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  15. #55
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    I always hate bringing this up.

    We have an overpopulation problem.

    Stop that problem, and we can go back to growing things as they are intended to grow. (and I'm anti-GMO btw.)

    Also, movies like Food, Inc use SOUND DATA AND RESEARCH to back up what they are saying. It's easier to put it into a visual/auditory explanation, where you can watch it after work, vs having to read a book. Some people don't read books. Some people, like my husband, can't read and will never be able to due to a learning disability, so he learns from shows/movies on educational channels.

    Comparing it to Popeye is not a good comparison.


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  16. #56
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    carolprudm
    So you think he should have let the government shut down?
    You're asking the wrong person the wrong question. I think our corrupt and purchased government SHOULD be shut down....scrapped and started over with those who serve the people, not the lobbyists.

    However, had he a backbone, he could have solved it without selling out (like he did with health care)


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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenrow View Post
    As an agronomist, I work in the GMO seed research business. Just a few things to think about, from someone who works with GMO research daily:

    So although you may buy unsustainable organic products, I feed the rest of the population. And I do it with GMO crops, because I can spray those crops - I can PROTECT those crops - by using herbicides that work WITH the plants, and eliminate their competition. I keep their stress levels down, your grocery bill down, and my yields up.



    I've worked with Monsanto on numerous projects. I have not been brainwashed or coerced in any way since I started. I like data and facts. And the fact is, people are healthier when they get quality, well rounded meals. A little of this and a little of that. Americans can have this variety because the food is affordable enough to buy more products. If you can afford to buy from the local guy, or pay more for organic stressed out spawn of sick plants, go for it. You are helping someone's economy. But please, do not try to limit what others get to choose to buy to feed their families.
    speak it, and speak it loud goldenrow. You won't get through to most of the people who are afraid of what you do, but I believe you.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  18. #58
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    Deleted....not worth it
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    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  19. #59
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    A LEADER would have led.



  20. #60
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    We all have to make our own choices about what we do or don't put in our bodies. I personally grow many of my own fruits and vegetables organically, and choose heirloom varieties. When I shop I buy non-GMO products. I don't eat much meat, but what I buy comes from a local farm that chooses to raise their cattle on grass/alfalfa only and uses responsible management practices such as only medicating animals when they're sick. I do this because it is important to me and I don't want to support factory farming. If other people do then that's their choice.

    A while back I added up how much an average trip to the grocery store cost for conventional and organic, non-GMO products. It only cost me about $10 more per week to feed two people going the organic route. Now, I do live in an area where buying local is very important to people, so maybe the demand lowers the price and I rarely buy processed, pre-packaged foods because I enjoy cooking. During the growing season I save money because I'm not buying as many vegetables, and I actually make a little money selling my excess at the farmer's market.

    I did hear this story on NPR a couple months ago and thought it very interesting.
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/201...-supreme-court
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