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  1. #81
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    This whole "shoot to kill" mentality keeps calling to a very recent incident from my area:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2908442.html

    I don't own a gun, nor do I ever intend to live in a home with one. Clearly, everyone else is entitled to their own view. Life isn't black and white, however--I think it's important to remember that by choosing to keep a gun in your home to protect yourself, you are also committing to potentially taking a life--a life that could just as easily belong to someone who wasn't intending to do you any actual harm.

    So yeah, the glee that some of the posters on here seem to harbor for the idea of getting to "take someone out" is, as JER noted, pretty damn heart warming.



  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    JER ... Are you really as bigoted , racist and wrong as this post makes you appear?
    Pointing out that someone is a privileged white person isn't racist. Beyond the fact that it's a simple statement of fact, white people (particularly white men) have no significant history of oppression or marginalization in this country--quite the contrary. The whole "reverse racism" thing is crap for that reason.



  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank B View Post
    Ever been in a real honest-to-God life-threatening situation?

    And are you referring to a Class III fully-automatic weapon, or just a semi-automatic one. You know, the ones the politicians and mainstream media like to call "assault weapons".
    I have a gun for emergencies of the equine nature. It's kept locked up.

    As for the real life emergency, I was a hostage in a bank robbery with a knife to my neck. He came up behind me so quietly that I didn't hear him. I don't see how a concealed weapon would have saved me in that situation. Thankfully, my 8 year old daughter who was with me (we were the only customers in the small rural bank) slid down next to the water fountain and he didn't see her. The tellers gave him money and he turned and ran.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by happymom View Post
    Would Jesus have used a semi-automatic to defend himself?
    Now see you laugh, but here is a facebook post from a fellow collie rescue person that I am "friends" with.

    IN this day and age when we are sitting back, allowing the government to call so much a Entitlement....Guns kill, a marriage is open to anything that can mumble the words "I do", don't spank your children, keep God behind closed doors. I'm proud to say, my nephew will have a Easter basket full of Remington Cartridges! And in 10 years from now I hold this young man up as example to all, for he will realize that God and GUns are to be respected and to stand up for his beliefs. And a Entitlement is what he drives in and up to daily because he worked for it! His home! That he can protect and provide for.

    I asked her didn't she see the contradiction of putting bullets in an Easter basket and quoted Jesus's sermon on the mount. She responded by saying:

    The bullets werent (sic) given to have him go out andharm (sic) anyone. anyone can quote scriptures. the bible proves that even satan knows them. we all put what we want in an easter basket. some people consider it odd that we celebrate it the way we do anyway. candy isnt biblical. not one scripture that says we shouldnt gove bullets. (well, just sic the whole thing)

    She further went on to say that the 10 year old boy was learning to protect himself.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by JER View Post
    It only works for privileged white people.

    Which would describe those posting on this thread.
    Really? Well sorry, I'm definitely NOT privileged white people.



  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natalie View Post
    Pointing out that someone is a privileged white person isn't racist. Beyond the fact that it's a simple statement of fact, white people (particularly white men) have no significant history of oppression or marginalization in this country--quite the contrary. The whole "reverse racism" thing is crap for that reason.
    Natalie. First: JER was referring to all the gun owners posting on thread. JER is wrong.

    Second: Unless your "history" is your only lifetime. (A narcissistic view by the way.) Consider the experience of the Irish, Poles, Jews, Italians, Indentured servants, and other "Whites" in this country. "Oppression or marginalization" fits their life experience. Of course, they weren't permanent victims. Their children climbed on their basis.

    No, I'm not of these groups. US Gov't said I was under privileged as a child. My family refused to accept that designation. So, now I'm privileged to own & enjoy horses. And now I'm going to leave this forum to serve the horses their food.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria View Post
    Perhaps, if you had felt the need to draw your guns, or if your neighbors had felt the needs to draw their guns, your neighborhood would not be pretty sketchy at times?
    It's not the quantity or quality of armaments and fortifications that make an area safe or unsafe or fringe.

    In an urban area with a fair amount of gang activity, there is no shortage of guns. There is also no shortage of people drawing their guns. But these two things don't make an area less sketchy or more safe.

    (That this needs to be pointed out to you is, to me, mind-boggling.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria View Post
    You treat guns as a fancy toy, something to shoot for fun and nothing more, and that is fine. Shooting IS fun. But don't you think your fantasy in owning a loud banging toy to be quite ironic?
    'Your fantasy'? Fantasy?

    I compete in 10m air pistol as well as in pentathlon, which has shooting as one of its disciplines. I don't know what part of that you think is fantasy.



  8. #88
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    I thought this thread was for people who had a gun. It was about how those people (with guns) view issues of self defense.

    If you do not have a gun, or want anyone else to have one, then....this is probably not your thread. Perhaps there should be a separate thread for people who do not have guns and/or don't like them.

    And an excellent point that certainly having a firearm does not always guarantee safety. I think THIS thread is aimed at IF someone has a firearm and IF they plan on using it for self defense, then how would they use it.



  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by JER View Post
    It's not the quantity or quality of armaments and fortifications that make an area safe or unsafe or fringe.

    In an urban area with a fair amount of gang activity, there is no shortage of guns. There is also no shortage of people drawing their guns. But these two things don't make an area less sketchy or more safe.

    (That this needs to be pointed out to you is, to me, mind-boggling.)
    The fact that I have to point out to you that the more people standing up to crime, the less crime there will be, IS mind-bogging.


    Quote Originally Posted by JER View Post
    'Your fantasy'? Fantasy?

    I compete in 10m air pistol as well as in pentathlon, which has shooting as one of its disciplines. I don't know what part of that you think is fantasy.
    So? you compete in pistol as well as pentathlon. So what? All that says is you enjoy shooting and think of guns as toys. It is fantasy to believe that just because you practice shooting and use guns at ranges, you think you know crimes, or you should tell others whether they should or should not allow themselves to be victims. It is the same fantasy if I say since I ride dressage, which by definition is military training of horses to assist warriors on horse back, that I'm a great warrior in medieval time.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #90
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    I have not read this entire thread...well, because it seems these types of threads always end up with one side bashing the other.

    But, to answer the orginal question....you shoot to kill, period.

    If someone breaks into my home its probably NOT to just say "Hi" or ask for a glass of milk. I live in a rural area with response times that would allow for my entire family to be murdered and my entire farm packaged up and walked off with before help arrived.

    There are no warning shots, there is a shoot to kill shot, period.
    Busy Bee Farm, Ellijay, GA
    Never Ride Faster Than Your Guardian Angel Can Fly
    Way Back Texas~04/20/90-09/17/08
    Green Alligator "Captain"


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    The Object of the Exercise is to STOP the assault on your life (or the life of another). If that action takes the life of the assailant then so be it. If they survive, so be it. When a person presumes to assault another with deadly force they assume the risk of of death or serious bodily harm.

    The surest way to STOP the assailant is to aim center of mass. "Shoot to wound" is a '50s TV cowboy myth. An injured assailant can still kill you.

    In every jurisdiction I'm aware of the basic law is that a person may use deadly force to protect them self or another if:

    a. They are put in fear of death or grievous bodily harm, and

    b. A reasonable person under the same or similar conditions would be put in fear of death or grievous bodily harm.

    Both conditions must be satisfied for a claim of self defense to be successful against a criminal charge of homicide or a civil claim for wrongful death. Be prepared to hire a good lawyer if you're ever charged or sued.

    If you live in a "gun friendly state" you're a whole lot better off than if you live in places like D.C., N.Y.C., Chicago, etc.

    G.
    Thanks for the explanation, G.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    Indeed? What history is that? What are the numbers? Remember that the standard for action is "certainty" but "reasonability."
    ....
    Since the consequences of pulling the trigger are massive any steps you can take to avoid that action are only good judgement. But if you can't then don't hesitate. Once you make the decision act, then act decisively. Do not apologize for your actions. The responsibility lies with the assailant, not the victim.

    G.
    Meh, I don't think either of us has access to stats from All of History that will show whether, in the majority of situations, something other than possessing a weapon that can kill gets one out of an assault.

    I pointed out the alternative to what someone had said about "someone attempting to hurt you won't be reasoned with" because of the way they presented that claim: That is was factually true, obvious and beyond debate.

    As you say, the consequences of killing someone are massive. I'm cool with gun owners practicing self-defense so long as they take the whole shebang seriously. There's no room from being glib when you are talking about taking someone's life, even in the worst of circumstances.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  13. #93
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    If they back off, they get to walk away. If they advance after being warned, I will blow a big hole in them. I have a .40 SIG P226 that I know how to use.
    You are what you dare.



  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria View Post
    It is fantasy to believe that just because you practice shooting and use guns at ranges, you think you know crimes, or you should tell others whether they should or should not allow themselves to be victims.
    You're 100% right, it is fantasy. Your fantasy because I said no such things. I said that I never felt the need to own a firearm. And that's all I said, you can go check my post.

    Not sure where you got all the rest of that -- about knowing crimes and victimhood and telling others what to do -- but it sure wasn't from anything I said.

    I hope you're more based in reality when you're handling your gun.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    I think history shows that this is not categorically true.
    Hey, if you're a little old lady who uses the Bible to convince someone to stop, MAYBE. I've heard of that happening. The odds, however, do not favor it. Personally, I'm not going to gamble MY life on being that good a salesman. The instant someone decides to break in, they've put their life below mine on my priority list because they've already demonstrated they're willing to commit one felony. Only a fool would operate on the assumption B&E is all they're willing to do.



  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by happymom View Post
    Would Jesus have used a semi-automatic to defend himself?
    So you'd let someone rape and kill you/your child/your friend? Or, to use a direct comparison, you'd allow someone to torture and murder you for your faith? If you're going to dredge up the "what would Jesus do" to argue that people shouldn't defend themselves, remember to consider the converse.

    Not to mention--would Jesus break into someone's house to rape, murder, and rob the occupants? Would He be totes okay with sitting there and allowing it to happen?



  17. #97
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    I was home alone with my daughter a few months ago. Husband had just left to go to a friend's house to help him out. My daughter gets a text from a neighbor boy "Police cars outside ,guy behind tree, cops have shotguns" . I made sure all our doors were locked, turned on the outside lights and turned off the inside lights. Called the dog and the kid and I hung out in the bedroom with the 44. Turned out to be not such a big deal, but we were prepared in case it was. Situations like that happen too, not every intruder sneaks into your house while you're asleep.
    Kerri



  18. #98
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    All this machismo about how y'all would kill and not feel bad about it. Time for a spin-off thread. Look for it.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    The instant someone decides to break in, they've put their life below mine on my priority list because they've already demonstrated they're willing to commit one felony. Only a fool would operate on the assumption B&E is all they're willing to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Natalie View Post
    This whole "shoot to kill" mentality keeps calling to a very recent incident from my area:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2908442.html
    Did you all read this article about a teen who accidentally went into the wrong house (he'd snuck out to a party earlier) and was shot and killed by the home-owner.

    This doesn't exactly fit the profile of "Only a fool would operate on the assumption B&E is all they're willing to do"...
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng



  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    All this machismo about how y'all would kill and not feel bad about it. Time for a spin-off thread. Look for it.
    Where did anyone say they wouldn't feel bad about it? I saw a couple posters say they WOULD feel bad. I'm sure shooting a human is not fun. Shooting anything is a bit traumatic (I felt guilty about a raccoon.) The point seems to be, if it comes down to shooting someone who intends to hurt or kill you, or crossing your fingers and hoping that there's a chance the police will be there in time, most posters are realistic and are going to see to their own defence.



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