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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blugal View Post
    Is anyone else reading this thread, and these sorts of quotes, and thinking of Oscar Pistorious' defense? Shoot first, ask questions later?
    It only works for privileged white people.

    Which would describe those posting on this thread.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #62
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    Aug. 12, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by JER View Post
    I've lived in some pretty sketchy areas at times, with high crime rates and gang activity and so on, but I've never felt the need to own a firearm. Block/neighbourhood safety? Yes. Bars on windows? Yes. Phone numbers at the ready? Yes. Exit plans? Alarms? Yes. But not arming myself.
    Well, bully for you, Jer. I guess you've also been a single woman living in a rural house (see before mentioned - house at end of dead end dirt road). Just three days ago a woman was abducted from a house in a TINY town 20 miles from me. That was a town I lived in for six years before I moved to the farm I have now. Bad things happen everywhere.

    If I have to shoot an intruder in my house do you honestly think I'll be celebrating? Ummm, no. I'll be traumatized - but I also won't be a victim. Sorry, but if someone doesn't want to be shot, don't break in. I swear, if you can walk past my car and truck with NRA car tags what do you expect?
    "Dogs are man's best friend. Cats are man's adorable little serial killer." -- theoatmeal.com


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trakehner View Post
    The scum's family will scream how he was a good boy, never started no trouble, it was a racist attack, why didn't they just wound him vs. kill him...they're racist, the papers will be judgeing you also.
    On the subject of race: ya know what, if a strange man walked up to me @ night, it doesn't matter what race he is; I'm going to be scared. Because, really, when I think of all the really sick, serial-killer types, they're all white men. Go ahead and call me sexist, but not racist.

    And I find it interesting that the Texas D.A. who was just shot in his home along with his wife didn't shoot the intruder. He's in Texas, his assistant D.A. had recently been murdered, so it's safe to assume he had a gun, yes? Just goes to show you that having a gun does not necessarily protect you or your family.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #64
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    Aug. 2, 2004
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    Whidbey Is, Wash.
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    Only posting because the subject line is driving me crazy!

    For those WHO own a gun. WHO. WHO.

    Sorry. I stay out of gun arguments. Only because I have guns and wuv them. I guess to be useful to the thread: OP, read your state laws. Some are duty to retreat, and some have castle doctrine.
    COTH's official mini-donk enabler

    "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #65
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    Feb. 25, 2012
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    If you have a gun, and you are thinking of using it for self defense, then it is an excellent thing to have thought out exactly what you would do, and certainly to know the laws of your jurisdiction. In our neck of the woods, that is Montana Gun Laws, and it is terrific - all the state laws in readable language, including those on deadly force.

    If you are not planning on using a gun for self defense, and many are not, that's fair but don't think you can be awakened from a dead sleep, scared and think, "I better grab my gun",find it, load it, and be competent with it, with NO PRACTICE and NO PRIOR THOUGHT, you are being very unrealistic.


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  6. #66
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilitiger2 View Post
    If you have a gun, and you are thinking of using it for self defense, then it is an excellent thing to have thought out exactly what you would do, and certainly to know the laws of your jurisdiction. In our neck of the woods, that is Montana Gun Laws, and it is terrific - all the state laws in readable language, including those on deadly force.

    If you are not planning on using a gun for self defense, and many are not, that's fair but don't think you can be awakened from a dead sleep, scared and think, "I better grab my gun",find it, load it, and be competent with it, with NO PRACTICE and NO PRIOR THOUGHT, you are being very unrealistic.
    Right, if you are going to have guns, please get some instruction.
    A concealed carry license course, if you get one or not, is an excellent place to learn what the laws about gun ownership and use are where you live.



  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    I think history shows that this is not categorically true.
    Indeed? What history is that? What are the numbers? Remember that the standard for action is "certainty" but "reasonability."

    For those who choose not to carry I say God Bless You. It is a personal choice and I hope it works out. Sadly, many who make that choice then falsely reason that since they are intelligent and have made an intelligent decision that anyone who comes to a different decision is either less intelligent or just, plain wrong. They then demand that ALL people follow their road. Those folks I do not will well.

    As far as a "duty to retreat" is concerned, when I took the TN Hand Gun Carry Permit Class the instructor was frank in noting that if you can "back off" and call for help, or maybe just defuse the situation, then by all means DO SO! Since the consequences of pulling the trigger are massive any steps you can take to avoid that action are only good judgement. But if you can't then don't hesitate. Once you make the decision act, then act decisively. Do not apologize for your actions. The responsibility lies with the assailant, not the victim.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #68
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    Oct. 13, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by JER View Post
    What a heart-warming thread.

    All this talk about home intrusions and shoot-to-kill and firepower, yet any actual crimes and threats aren't exactly happening. One of you even said there's 'little if no crime' in your area.

    I've lived in some pretty sketchy areas at times, with high crime rates and gang activity and so on, but I've never felt the need to own a firearm. Block/neighbourhood safety? Yes. Bars on windows? Yes. Phone numbers at the ready? Yes. Exit plans? Alarms? Yes. But not arming myself.

    I say this as someone who shoots regularly (several times/week) and competes in pistol events. I love shooting for sport but I really don't get this (fantasy) siege mentality or share your enthusiasm for Fifty Shades of Intruder-Shooting.
    I haven't read any of the responses as "I can't wait to be able to unload a clip into a intruder." The OP question was "in the unlikely scenario that you have to defend yourself/family aim to wound or aim to kill?" We have been answering the question as asked and discussing the various potential fallout, I think for a gun discussion, relatively politely.

    I think that you have an excellent plan that works for you. I live in a rural area, where the houses are a long way apart. There is no immediate help or safety right outside my house. My closest neighbor's kids are the local drug dealers. I would absolutely try to get away, but I would not hesitate to shoot if I *truly* felt that it was me or the criminal. And I accept both the mental and legal consequences that would come, whatever they may be.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #69
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    May. 12, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndyrgal View Post
    Do I believe the average citizen, or most hunters need an automatic weapon? No. If I can kill something with one shot, so can you. Practice.
    Ever been in a real honest-to-God life-threatening situation?

    And are you referring to a Class III fully-automatic weapon, or just a semi-automatic one. You know, the ones the politicians and mainstream media like to call "assault weapons".
    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
    John Adams


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blugal View Post
    And another charming racist fear-mongering post from you!
    BUSTED!
    What is it with you Left-wingnuts? Any time someone mentions bad characteristics in a person, race immediately pops into your minds. You need to quit listening to your leaders and start thinking for yourselves. Besides, the race card is so Twentieth Century.
    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
    John Adams


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank B View Post
    BUSTED!
    What is it with you Left-wingnuts?
    Congratulations on upping the intelligent level of debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank B View Post
    Any time someone mentions bad characteristics in a person, race immediately pops into your minds. You need to quit listening to your leaders and start thinking for yourselves. Besides, the race card is so Twentieth Century.
    I didn't bring up race, Trakehner did, by insinuating that every intruder/potential raper is a person of a different race and will use racism as a defence:

    Quote Originally Posted by Trakehner View Post
    Remember, you'll probably be arrested, have to post bail and go to court. It's going to be expensive. The scum's family will scream how he was a good boy, never started no trouble, it was a racist attack, why didn't they just wound him vs. kill him...they're racist, the papers will be judgeing you also. But ya' know, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Your family will be alive, won't have been raped and you will get over this.
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng



  12. #72
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    Dec. 22, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank B View Post
    Besides, the race card is so Twentieth Century.
    If only.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/us...vonmartin&_r=0



  13. #73
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    Apr. 25, 2011
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    Would Jesus have used a semi-automatic to defend himself?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #74
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    Feb. 25, 2012
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    IF you have to use deadly force (even if it does not result in death), it is reasonable to assume you will be "judged" by people who a) do not know anything about firearms, b) know nothing about being personally threatened and c) have strong opinions about those things. So, that's why thinking over, really,important. One can take firearms training classes where they actually DO get your adrenaline going, so you have the experience of trying to think and aim and keep safe while under pressure. I don't know that all gun owners need to take that but it underscores the huge difference between shooting unthreatened vs when someone is shooting back at you or at least posing a threat.

    This judging without knowledge is not limited to firearms. When "into thin air" came out about deaths on Mt Everest, lot of people who A) knew nothing about climbing, b) knew nothing about being at altitude (28k) and c) had very strong opinions about those things spouted off all over about what the climbers should and should not have done. I think its very fair to warn people that this could very well happen regardless of the circumstances when firearms are involved. It is not unreasonable to expect that if there is a racial issue, it will be considered, although it might not be.


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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by JER View Post
    What a heart-warming thread.
    Good cheer and feelings have nothing to do with self-defense.

    All this talk about home intrusions and shoot-to-kill and firepower, yet any actual crimes and threats aren't exactly happening. One of you even said there's 'little if no crime' in your area.
    This is such a strange, myopic and patently absurd view of the world, this summary denial that crime exists in the world. I don't even know what to say. Do you also believe the world is flat?

    I've lived in some pretty sketchy areas at times, with high crime rates and gang activity and so on, but I've never felt the need to own a firearm. Block/neighbourhood safety? Yes. Bars on windows? Yes. Phone numbers at the ready? Yes. Exit plans? Alarms? Yes. But not arming myself.
    So? I have been in some pretty sketchy situations myself and narrowly escaped. Yet I have friends and relatives who have been raped, robbed, mugged and murdered in their homes (in a quaint, rural community, by the way). Sorry, but your personal feelings do not count.

    I say this as someone who shoots regularly (several times/week) and competes in pistol events. I love shooting for sport but I really don't get this (fantasy) siege mentality or share your enthusiasm for Fifty Shades of Intruder-Shooting.
    That's cute and all, but how is it relevant to people exercising their fundamental constitutional right to self-protection?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  16. #76
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    Apr. 3, 2012
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    Hudson Valley, NY
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    I haven't read the whole thread, but I didn't see any posts about competitive shooting, which the OP mentioned she might be interested in trying.

    I love shooting IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association) and if I ever did have to use my handgun defensively, the consistent training (hopefully) means I am more familiar with my pistol and will (hopefully) better enable me to compensate for the fear and stress. You can check their website to see if there is a club near you--your local fish and game/hunt/gun club may have one. I've found the people super friendly and very helpful in all aspects of gun ownership. Even if you chose not to compete, if you have a handgun you must practice regularly or it is more of a risk than a help.

    Personally, I prefer a shotgun for home defense, b/c when your scared and nervous aiming accurately is hard (even with practice) and shotgun gives you more leeway. Plus, the sound of of a pump action is enough to scare most people away. Yes, racking the pistol makes a noise too, but if you're serious about defense, there should already be a round in the chamber, so you wouldn't be racking it anyway b/c by then they could be on you. IMO,most bad guys (or girls) are more likely to charge at you while your trying to rack a pistol then when pumping a shotgun, b/c they KNOW you're not going to miss with the shotgun, but they have a chance with the pistol


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  17. #77
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    Oct. 16, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    I don't have an opinion on which is worse- jail time or any of the exceedingly horrible or gruesome alternatives.

    I'm asking if the legal ramifications are researched by most people who are pro-self-defense-with-guns as part of their decision to do that.

    If you are willing to suffer any and all legal penalties for shooting to kill, that's your choice. I just wanted to know if people were making an informed decision here.
    Got you.



  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by JER View Post
    What a heart-warming thread.

    All this talk about home intrusions and shoot-to-kill and firepower, yet any actual crimes and threats aren't exactly happening. One of you even said there's 'little if no crime' in your area.

    I've lived in some pretty sketchy areas at times, with high crime rates and gang activity and so on, but I've never felt the need to own a firearm. Block/neighbourhood safety? Yes. Bars on windows? Yes. Phone numbers at the ready? Yes. Exit plans? Alarms? Yes. But not arming myself.

    I say this as someone who shoots regularly (several times/week) and competes in pistol events. I love shooting for sport but I really don't get this (fantasy) siege mentality or share your enthusiasm for Fifty Shades of Intruder-Shooting.
    Perhaps, if you had felt the need to draw your guns, or if your neighbors had felt the needs to draw their guns, your neighborhood would not be pretty sketchy at times?

    You treat guns as a fancy toy, something to shoot for fun and nothing more, and that is fine. Shooting IS fun. But don't you think your fantasy in owning a loud banging toy to be quite ironic?


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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarkspurCO View Post
    Sorry, but your personal feelings do not count.
    Well, most other posters on this thread think their personal feelings count. To that point, I'd say there has been a severe lack of actual facts & statistics on this thread.
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by JER View Post
    It only works for privileged white people.

    Which would describe those posting on this thread.
    JER ... Are you really as bigoted , racist and wrong as this post makes you appear?


    2 members found this post helpful.

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