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  1. #81
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    Around my neck of the woods, the kids often drive themselves to the bus stop if they are, say, 12 or more and are on private property to do so. It isn't any 200 yards, either...
    We also have public boarding high schools (Paisley, Crane, Mitchell), and there are plenty of students who are issued special drivers licenses at age 14. They can drive only to and from school, during the appropriate hours, and have to pass the usual tests as well as have the local sheriff sign the application.



  2. #82
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    Agreed!

    Honestly, too many non-parents on this thread and the ones about the problems in the educational system. One thread thinks parents are not involved enough, this one thinks they are too involved. .
    And obese non parents complaining about obese children
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  3. #83
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    The only thing I saw that your parents would risk arrest for nowadays was leaving you alone overnight at age 11 or 12.
    Kerri



  4. #84
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    Mar. 1, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    Children, and women, and even grown men, are at risk in their homes, in their driveways waiting for the school bus, and on the streets in brought daylight.

    [snip]

    Every child, in the cities and countryside, is at risk fro predators at anytime of the day or night.

    [snip]

    I am careful about the safety of my dogs and cats and horses. People with children should be just as obsessed about their safety.
    There are some good reasons on this thread for keeping children safe. But your quotes above basically say, "we are all at risk all the time, it's a terrible world out there." So your solution is to have a father who's a crack shot with a gun?

    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    I categorically refuse to live my life in fear of the .2 percent. (Which, statistically, is not even .2 percent. It is more like .00000....2 percent.)
    I agree, with respect to my own life. But I guess I also agree with other posters that they are entitled to choose however they want to react to life and its risks.

    I read somewhere about the underlying message of "helicopter parenting" - things such as always saying "be careful" or not letting a child experience life's risks and potential consequences. The underlying messages are "I don't trust you to make good decisions" and "I couldn't live with myself if you got hurt/I couldn't survive if you were killed."

    None of those messages is actually healthy for the child. It's all about the parent's worry.
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng


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  5. #85
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    Meup...and it was uphill both ways!

    Seriously...agree that way too many people coddle their kids. Don't agree that making sure your young child doesn't get flattened by the morning commute traffic is coddling your kid. The laws for that were created for reasons other than the handful of child abductors out there.

    They were created due to the alarming number of people who don't think twice about leaving a 5 year old home alone, etc. By stating that now they require an adult to be present for the young children to be released from the bus, they are preventing kids being left unattended at dangerous ages. That does translate into parents also needing to be there for the morning pickup too.

    The laws do not cover children old enough to safely be home unattended. Then if your 12 year old gets off of the bus without an adult there and is home alone and sticks a fork in the toaster...well, that's natural selection and you can't legislate that. It is sad that you need to legislate "Don't leave a 5 year old home alone"...but apparently you do. Not all people make decent parents. And it's not the childrens' faults, so they have to be protected a bit.

    If you and your kids are too busy having their faces in electronic devices...well...they were raised that way.

    And seriously...there isn't walking trick-or-treaters in my town due to how dangerous the roads can be. Doesn't make this a soft town. The kids who do go house-to-house here do so with a couple groups who's parents drive them. In a wagon behind a tractor loaded with lights to keep cars from hitting them. And even then it's only a couple areas because all of our driveways are too long to make walking up them worth a snack-sized snickers.

    I would prefer to err on the side of safety for small children rather than "buck up buttercup and do things my way!" Kids can still bike across towns at 14. And go on all day trail rides with friends and no adults. Go swimming at the quarry. Go out on the ATVs and dirtbikes. The neighbor's kids climb the cell tower next to me...funny little psychos. They also shoot cans in the woods. But before they were 9, they had a parent at the bus stop with them.
    You jump in the saddle,
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    ...Belefonte


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  6. #86
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    Nov. 1, 2005
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    The Prairie
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    I categorically refuse to live my life in fear of the .2 percent. (Which, statistically, is not even .2 percent. It is more like .00000....2 percent.)

    I walked on sidewalks and crossed streets over a mile to summer camp by myself when I was 11. I flew as an Unaccompanied Minor to Australia, got taken by car to a hotel, ordered room service and waited for my parents to arrive from their travels the next morning when I was 12. When I got sent to German relatives/friends for a month at a time in the summer the family kids would usually still have a few weeks of school left. I would go along with them, and no kidding all of the kids boarded REGULAR PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION (not special school busses but regular busses with adults and old people and people going to work and twenty somethings coming home from a night out on the town) to get to school. Once I had my driver's license in highschool and could get groceries by myself and drive myself to school, my parents left me home alone for weeks at a time while they travelled.

    Someone lectured me on COTH once for the fact that I ride alone in the barn at 11pm. Not, what if you fall and no one is there but some scary man could come in and who knows what. I can not imagine living my life in such fear, I think it would be debilitatingly awful.

    However, since the law now LEGISLATES for the .00000000002 percent, it is impossible for people like me to raise children without getting arrested. Other parents will approach me and wonder why I let my children do x y or z. Even when I was a kid other parents would ask me how my parents could let me bike by myself 15 miles to the barn by myself at age 14. I am aware of this and thus will choose not to have children.

    You are free to take whatever risks you like. Parents however, have to weigh risk to their child (i.e. things that pose some risk but would increase a child's independence and maturity) and decide whether there is in fact a benefit to taking the risk. Job 1 is to actually get the kid to adulthood. That requires consideration of the actual child in question (age, maturity level) and the external circumstances that you can't control.

    Frankly, an 11 year old crossing streets and walking a mile doesn't sound that risky to me. Neither does having a 12 year old take a plane ride by themselves.

    Leaving a toddler alone in a running vehicle...that is risky.
    Leaving a 6 yr old alone at the end of dark driveway to wait for the bus on a busy road...that is risky.

    Admittedly, if a car takes said 6 yr old to the end of the driveway and then goes back into the garage (instead of driving off to work) it does, on the face of it, sound kind of lazy. However, as I don't actually know what is going on in their lives I am not prepard to judge without knowing their side of things.
    I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.


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  7. #87
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    Aug. 6, 2002
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    When my 15 yo niece lived with me for a year, I was shocked at how early the bus came - it was pitch black, she had to walk half a mile down an unlit street in mid winter. I joined the parents driving them down, fortunately the bus was timely. I made her walk back in the afternoons, she did suffer through some pretty nasty weather without complaint.

    When the days became longer & the weather nicer, I put my foot down & told her she had to walk in the mornings too.

    She had to walk by a loser family a wreck of a house that everyone pretty much knew were dealing drugs (lot's of strange cars passing by on our private street... lots of loud late night parties.). One day she comes home out of breath saying two guys in a car coming from that house asked her to come "to a party" and when she said no, followed slowly behind her all the way to my drive.

    I drove her to & from the bus stop the rest of her stay with me! (Was working from home).

    An odd case, but wanted to share as you might wonder why I was chauffering a teen in daylight to & from a bus stop and there it is! That house was scary. (they finally busted the owner & put him in jail, now it is just an abandoned wreck).


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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    Maybe they have somewhere to go after the bus picks up the kids? Like to a job?
    OK. OBVIOUSLY, I need to spell everything out for some people. I GET that some parents have places to go. I was not talking about them.



  9. #89
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    I live in a rural area. On the main road, the bus stops at the end of each driveway. However, I live on a private road and if there is a group of kids, they all walk together (safety in numbers). Now that there is just one family with kids that are school age, the family either drives or walks them to the pick up spot.


    I won't walk along the main road, no shoulder and a drop off on either side. I certainly wouldn't expect a child to.
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  10. #90
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    Oct. 12, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMF11 View Post
    Good for you! This passes my number one parenting rule: If it works, do it! Being so independent worked for you and your parents. Great!

    But, other set-ups work for other parents and children. Good for them! If it works for them to drive their child to the bus stop, fantastic!

    I'm not really sure why there has to be only one right way to do things. And I'm not really sure, aside from the inconvenience of being stuck behind one of those buses, why anyone would devote any thought or energy to this issue.
    I love this answer. One of my dearest friends ever summed it up quite nicely one day: As you get older and wiser, you try not to generalize to what ONE way is best for all, but to follow what you find works best for you.

    I think the posters out there that are hinting that a parent that drives to the end of the driveway with their kids and doesn't require them to walk to school uphill (both ways!! -haha) in a snowstorm is going to raise a soft or inferior child are really out there. And if that child gets creamed by a car or abducted... oh the outcry that there would be: "WHAT?!?! why was no one with the poor kid?!?!?! Out there next to the road by themselves?!?!?!" You know it would happen.


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  11. #91
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    Dec. 18, 2006
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by chancellor2 View Post
    OK. OBVIOUSLY, I need to spell everything out for some people. I GET that some parents have places to go. I was not talking about them.
    So you're only talking about the lazy parents who have lazy kids. I see. How do you know which ones they are?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #92
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    Mar. 10, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasjordan View Post
    Really?! Sorry if your parents didn't spend time talking with you. My daughter talks my ear off.
    Wasn't me, just what I observe. I walked to and from bus stop alone (or with my sister when our ages meant we were attending the same school). I talked my mom's ear off as well when we traveled somewhere together. But smartphones and iPads were not around during the Pleistocene era.



  13. #93
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    Mar. 29, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by headsupheelsdown View Post

    I think the posters out there that are hinting that a parent that drives to the end of the driveway with their kids and doesn't require them to walk to school uphill (both ways!! -haha) in a snowstorm is going to raise a soft or inferior child are really out there. And if that child gets creamed by a car or abducted... oh the outcry that there would be: "WHAT?!?! why was no one with the poor kid?!?!?! Out there next to the road by themselves?!?!?!" You know it would happen.
    Once again, why does the parent need to be there in the car? (AND NO, S1969 I am not talking about the parents who have someplace to go besides back to the house).
    How do I know which ones are the lazy parents? Well, once again, I will try to spell it out for you. They are the ones who have the SUV (I am using hyperbole here in case it isn't obvious to you) that gets 7 gallons to the mile and they stop at the end of the driveway and once little Johnny (or in case it isn't obvious, this is just a generic name....could be any name) gets on the bus, they back their SUV(oh, it could be a car too s1969) back up the driveway and go back into the house.
    This I have seen as I wait for yet another stop of the bus in front of my car.



  14. #94
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    Oct. 4, 2010
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    There's a lot of privilege and economics being bandied about here, but they're being talked about like they're personal character strengths in some instances.

    OP, I think you were clearly a pretty independent, capable kid. And you can be proud of that, without assuming that anyone else who doesn't do what you did is helpless and coddled.

    For instance, I don't know a lot of kids who can (let alone would be allowed to) fly alone to a strange city, get oneself to a hotel using public transportation, and installed into said hotel and ordered room service. I was a kid who could take care of a farm full of animals and a couple siblings for days, yet had never set foot on an airplane when I was 12. My parents simply couldn't afford vacations that included air travel. I did not grow up city-hopping and traveling by plane, and I'd never been exposed to much public transportation, having lived in a rural area my entire life.

    If you had seen me when I first flew at 18, and had to figure out WHAT TO DO at the frigging airport, and how to get a cab once landed, would you have laughed at me and started a thread on COTH about "idiot hicks who don't know how to get themselves through the airport"?

    We have different experiences; doesn't automatically make one of us a better person for it.


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  15. #95
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    Nov. 24, 2006
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    Maybe they worked night shift, came home and are in their pajamas for the day? Maybe there's a baby in the car they don't really want out in the weather? Maybe they are making phone calls for their work and don't want the outside noise? Maybe they are listening to the radio for traffic updates? Maybe when that kid gets on the bus, the next comes out of the house and gets in the car to get driven to school? It's their car. It's their kid. It's their 8 cents in gas money. Only 2 and a half more months and everyone will have the summer off from school buses.
    Kerri


    9 members found this post helpful.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasjordan View Post
    Maybe they worked night shift, came home and are in their pajamas for the day? Maybe there's a baby in the car they don't really want out in the weather? Maybe they are making phone calls for their work and don't want the outside noise? Maybe they are listening to the radio for traffic updates? Maybe when that kid gets on the bus, the next comes out of the house and gets in the car to get driven to school? It's their car. It's their kid. It's their 8 cents in gas money. Only 2 and a half more months and everyone will have the summer off from school buses.

    Now that is the first post with actual reasons. Thank you! Good points.



  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by chancellor2 View Post
    Now that is the first post with actual reasons. Thank you! Good points.
    Yeah, but three posts ago this car time was INVALUABLE FAMILY TIME TO TALK.

    Now it is essential to be in the car so that we can listen to the radio for traffic updates instead or make work calls without outside noises (such as our lovely child talking to us).

    And for those who are claiming this is all socio-economic snobbery, look at the picture I posted.
    1.) There is a lady riding a horse in a field.
    2.) Look at the size of the house in the background.
    3.) This is not 8-Mile.
    4.) The bus stopped at the end of the driveway. None of the kids had to walk along the road. As you can see, the car was not waiting IN THE ROAD. They have an entire driveway, along with a large field, in which they theoretically could wait for this bus without risking getting run over.
    5.) Yes, said car returned to the house every morning. Neither of the kids who emerged from it every morning appeared disabled in any way. The driver did not appear to have any other pressing morning obligations to get to via a luxury vehicle. Nobody appeared downtrodden by the heavy weight of poverty or lack of financial advantage, what with living in a tony, extremely low-crime suburb and cruising their very nice car back and forth in their driveway and all.

    Nobody is making fun of 12 year olds who can manage a farm.
    The kids sitting in that car did not walk down their own driveway.



  18. #98
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    Nov. 15, 2005
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    To get to our bus stop DS would have to go down my looooong driveway [and we have coyote, bear and other animals in the area, incl two neighbor dogs that I have had to scare away from a child they were attacking], and then he has to go up the road that in one direction comes around a blind curve, and the other over a blind rise, to the bus stop that is almost directly where my neighbor was hit while on his lawn tractor while just turning around in the road a couple years ago. He was launched over the steering wheel landing with a thud in the road.
    He's not fully recovered yet.

    There are no shoulders or sidewalks, and people drive like asshats around here, particularly when they are late to work, and afraid of getting stuck behind a school bus.

    The school/bus company has a rule that no kid in grade 3 and lower can be dropped off at the stop without a parent present at that stop, though other parents at the stop do cover for one another, after the driver being told that this was the arrangement.
    DS is in 4th and honestly I do not want him home alone for more than 30 minutes, and we've not even done that yet.
    It is also against the rules for a parent to board the bus.

    I'm not really sorry if my walking with or driving my kid to the stop upsets you.
    When it's your kid you can do what you want. This one is the only one I will get in this life, I cherish him, I almost died bringing him into this world, and I choose to keep him safe while teaching him how to keep himself safe. I'm going to guess I will know when it's safe for him to go to the stop without me before you will.

    And if it's that bad when you get stuck behind the bus on your way to work, maybe you should leave earlier to avoid that?
    Last edited by Angela Freda; Apr. 2, 2013 at 05:03 PM. Reason: spelling


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  19. #99
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    No, three posts ago- it was another suggested scenario- maybe they WERE talking. It could be any of the listed reasons, not one person here said there was One.Reason.Why. The point being you aren't them. You have no clue why they are doing what they are doing. And why does it bother you so much?
    Kerri


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  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Yeah, but three posts ago this car time was INVALUABLE FAMILY TIME TO TALK.

    Now it is essential to be in the car so that we can listen to the radio for traffic updates instead or make work calls without outside noises (such as our lovely child talking to us).

    And for those who are claiming this is all socio-economic snobbery, look at the picture I posted.
    1.) There is a lady riding a horse in a field.
    2.) Look at the size of the house in the background.
    3.) This is not 8-Mile.
    4.) Yes, said car returned to the house every morning. Neither of the kids who emerged from it every morning appeared disabled in any way. The driver did not appear to have any other pressing morning obligations to get to via a luxury vehicle.

    Nobody is making fun of 12 year olds who can manage a farm.
    The kids sitting in that car did not walk down their own driveway.
    Yet you riding your horse in a field in an area full of McMansions doesn't just SCREAM privilege at all?

    Every example you gave, OP, is laden with socio-economic privilege. And the take-away is that you, and the way you were raised, are clearly superior. I'd think you'd be happy with that.

    And my point is that, for every fat housewife who drives her fat kid to the end of the driveway of their McMansion in a Cadillac Escalade, there are a hundred kids who have ACTUAL reasons to be driven somewhere, reasons you may not see from your vantage point.


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