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  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by poltroon View Post
    Our bus drivers have a policy that they encourage traffic to go around them whenever possible. So they'll get the kids on the bus, turn off the flashing lights, wait for everyone behind to pass, and only then go on to the next stop.
    The solution!

    And it only took 12 or so pages. I'd be very pleased with this policy if I were regularly getting stuck behind school busses. In Cali, I think it used to be state law that if you were towing something and driving slowly, you had to pull over and let other traffic pass if there were more than 5 cars behind you. I use this as a guideline and practice it. It just seems like common decency.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


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  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyGuineaPigLady View Post
    Interesting observation about this thread…

    It seems like the people who had the hard core parents, grew up to have little or no compassion for others. Unknown children and parents are called lazy or entitled and school buses should stay off the road.

    Please explain what these strict, unwavering parents have done to make you a better person. All I see is finger pointing and entitlement for the life YOU have. Not at all the way I want my children to see the world.
    FWIW, my momma would have kicked my a$$ if I didn't show consideration for others.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    (Not to mention - most of whom also have no children of their own.)
    Well, sheeit. If y'all want everyone to have to show their qualifications before having an opinion about "the other side," then this will remain an adversarial thing. That's because *each side" can claim a special experience the other one doesn't understand and which justifies their point of view. That's not only stupid (because it insures bickering in a way that anyone can see), but it also underwrites the basic lack of empathy that folks are b!tching about.

    I think the solution *is* to "keep your side of the street clean" so that no one else has to care what you do and how you do it. That people have children and how they raise them is none of my business. So don't make it my business!
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #284
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    That's because *each side" can claim a special experience the other one doesn't understand and which justifies their point of view.
    No. You have zero experience having children. I had a childless life. Therefore I have an experience that you have not. I *also* have had your experience and I *also* have thought many of the same thoughts you think.

    And then I learned.

    Only one side here is refusing to listen to the other side, and it isn't those of us with children.

    We KNOW this is a pain, we TRY really hard to deal with it. We also have developed an empathy that YOU have not.

    Let's put it another way - when an elderly person pulls out in front of me (as they invariably do) when I'm late, do I b*tch and whine and moan about why they always do that? No. I've learned that perhaps there's a reason that they are still driving. Perhaps their family isn't around to get them their medication.

    Similarly with a tractor - I understand that that farmer may only have that one hour to get to that field that he hasn't been able to work because it's been raining for a month. It's MY fault that I'm late, not his that he's on the road.

    That empathy only develops through talking to elderly people, farmers, bicyclists etc. and starting to understand the challenges that they go through.

    So why wouldn't you accept that from a parent, trying to explain that they aren't trying to make your life difficult? And that, in fact, they are doing everything they possibly can?

    That's a genuine question, not a snark.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    FWIW, my momma would have kicked my a$$ if I didn't show consideration for others.
    And you are showing consideration to the parents on this board, how? By blaming them for something they have no control over, you know, where the bus stops and whether the driver lets you pass? Or is it in the belittling of explanations and telling them how your momma did things so much better? And here you are saying a majority of the population (people with kids) should accommodate your needs and wants because, darn it, that’s the considerate thing to do.

    I don’t know your momma so will I try not to lump her in with any particular parenting set but I do think she failed you in the consideration department. That is something you teach by example.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  6. #286
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    MVP... I generally enjoy your input and you were spot on in my thread. I also don't mind the childless having opinions on child rearing provided they don't shove it down my throat. However... For instance I an sure OGP tried her best, in the end was successful. No all her problems would not have been solved by treating this tough colt exactly as you prescribe when he was young. That is ridiculous.

    I understand why people walk their children to the bus stop. I can see my children from my house with binoculars if my stop was right here. Otherwise I would/will coordinate with another parent and we can provide check ins "Hey your children got on the bus everything good" just so god forbid something did happen on their way to the stop, I would know very quickly.

    That's my one qualm. Well what if something happens and I don't find out for hours because it was just assumed they missed the bus? But again I can network with another parent, whatever and what have you. I try so hard not to be a helicopter parent, kids need independence.

    My 18 month old has already experienced skinned knees... And a skinned forehead outside on the porch and lawn. And a splinter in his foot. Yes I felt bad and took care of him but he will trip and stumble. He is happily out there about 8 hours a day in good weather with his brother and I. I won't keep him from positives to avoid the risks but I do understand the concern.

    Even as a parent... Stopping at every single house is ridiculous. It makes sense if there are no other children but if there are... Come on now. One stop end of the block. Get it together. That is so dumb and it IS very inconsiderate to everyone else in the world. I am annoyed thinking about it.

    I do not care if they drive their car or walk, although my children will walk unless it is nasty. They're not my kids not my choice. At least DS1 I am sure will want to walk, he is an outdoor kid. DS2 doesn't walk or crawl yet so time will tell lol. But I intend to encourage them to be outside as much as possible, I would have loved to grow up on a farm in the country as a child and I want to encourage that love of nature and adventure in them.



  7. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicteetango View Post
    Even as a parent... Stopping at every single house is ridiculous. It makes sense if there are no other children but if there are... Come on now. One stop end of the block. Get it together. That is so dumb and it IS very inconsiderate to everyone else in the world. I am annoyed thinking about it.
    I walk my own child across the street so that the driver doesn't have to make a second stop 25 feet down the road, get out, and run her sign to help my daughter cross a two lane road posted at 45 mph. We go across to the neighbor's driveway, get a chance to chat with the neighbor, and the driver only has to make one stop for the two kids without getting out. Bonus: there's a little bit of dirt shoulder there so the bus can pull a little bit off the road.

    So I agree with you. But, the logistics of the situation don't really allow for a collective bus stop in our particular area in most cases. And these logistics are outside of the control of parents or the school district.

    (On the good side, each bus probably eliminates 50 round trip car trips, which substantially helps with congestion and pollution, and as I said, in our neighborhood, the bus does all it can to yield to other traffic, so you only have to stop for the bus once.)

    I could point out that if the road had shoulders, AT ALL, instead of a wide open ditch, that this would be safer and more convenient for everyone, and that even better, it could have a trail up to Main Street. If we had that, forget walking; my daughter and I could ride horses to school in the morning.

    So there's my rant. Lazy government that didn't think to get enough easement to put in a horse trail next to the road when it was first built.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket


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  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicteetango View Post
    I understand why people walk their children to the bus stop. I can see my children from my house with binoculars if my stop was right here. Otherwise I would/will coordinate with another parent and we can provide check ins "Hey your children got on the bus everything good" just so god forbid something did happen on their way to the stop, I would know very quickly.

    That's my one qualm. Well what if something happens and I don't find out for hours because it was just assumed they missed the bus? But again I can network with another parent, whatever and what have you. I try so hard not to be a helicopter parent, kids need independence.

    My 18 month old has already experienced skinned knees... And a skinned forehead outside on the porch and lawn. And a splinter in his foot. Yes I felt bad and took care of him but he will trip and stumble. He is happily out there about 8 hours a day in good weather with his brother and I. I won't keep him from positives to avoid the risks but I do understand the concern.

    Even as a parent... Stopping at every single house is ridiculous. It makes sense if there are no other children but if there are... Come on now. One stop end of the block. Get it together. That is so dumb and it IS very inconsiderate to everyone else in the world. I am annoyed thinking about it.

    I do not care if they drive their car or walk, although my children will walk unless it is nasty. They're not my kids not my choice. At least DS1 I am sure will want to walk, he is an outdoor kid. DS2 doesn't walk or crawl yet so time will tell lol. But I intend to encourage them to be outside as much as possible, I would have loved to grow up on a farm in the country as a child and I want to encourage that love of nature and adventure in them.
    Unless I’m mistaken, your oldest child is 18 months? What you think you’ll do while they are so cute and non-opinionated doesn’t always turn out to be a reality. They have different needs, different personalities and different schedules as they get older. Your neighbors might turn out to be freaks with “creepy” kids that you want to avoid. One of your children could have a physical or mental condition that would necessitate you being hands-on until their aid arrives on the bus. Watching them through binoculars won’t cut it.

    We ALL want our kids running barefoot in the sun but life doesn’t always work that way. You may end up being a helicopter parent because of things you can’t control.

    My son has a HUGE bone cyst in his left arm that took 6 months to heal after the first break. We opted out of surgery (another 3 months of recovery) because he was already showing behavior issues from being on “stall rest” but it’s very likely he’ll re-inure in the next 5 years. It is my responsibility to keep him from doing stupid things. If that means I get talked about by some childless people on the internet, oh well. I'm not the one in need of a hobby.


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  9. #289
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    Obviously a child with physical problems is very different. And since they are my children if I cannot coordinate with another parent I will come up with something else, or walk with them or wait for an aid or whatever. That is what I signed up for as their mother, but nowhere else on this thread did I see mentioned children with disabilities or special needs so I posted from the reference point of a child without those. When I described a helicopter parent and mentioned my kids being outside all day, I know plenty of people who cannot handle a scrape or bruise on their child and freak out if their child trips. It is one of those things I try not to do with my children who, as of yet,do not require extra care in those aspects.

    My children are not always cute and agreeable now, but thank you! I am sorry your child's bone cyst means he cannot walk indendently (or be walked) to a bus stop at the end of the block. The bolded section you highlighted mentioned a stop at every single house. If your child has a physical need for his own stop than fine, but what about other children that do not need that for a physical or other documented health reason? Why can't they walk or be walked?

    When I said I am trying hard, that means I do worry and try to over ride myself in that aspect. Hence why I worry they will get kidnapped at their bus stop and I won't know for hours and want to coordinate with another parent. I want them to have their independence but would need a check and balance system to make sure they were okay. I was trying to convey that I get the struggle between letting them grow up and have some independence and keeping them safe.

    And poltroon... See? There goes someone trying to make it better and I definitely agree. I live on a very quiet road with room to walk off the road so they are safe from traffic so I am lucky in that aspect.



  10. #290
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    My son just turned 8. He’s not so frail that he can’t walk independently or fool around with supervision but… he’s 8. Some children, boys in particular, do stupid things at this age and it’s not worth the risk to go through another 6 months of healing before we can do the surgery. Not to mention he developed some behavior issues last time that I want to stay on top of. I can trust his twin sister not to get in trouble but she’s 8, too. Younger than I think is ready to handle a major problem.

    It doesn’t really matter if my kid has a non-obvious physical or mental issue that requires a stop at our driveway, though. People who lack compassion will still drive by and judge our entire life because they are cranky about the school bus.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #291
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    How about this for a solution to the picking kids up at driveways and waiting: When bus pulls up little Johnny has two minutes to make an appearance on the front porch if little Johnny's mommy is unable to get him out the door so he is at least present outside and walking towards the bus in these two minutes, bus drives away. That's how it's been done for decades at bus stops (hell if there was no one present at the bus stop, my bus would just keep on driving past) and I don't think anyone should be entitled to any special treatment of making the whole world wait while they take their jolly old time getting little Johnny's jacket on.

    Remember the people that that are complaining about being stuck behind these buses pay taxes, which fund the school district and buses so they do have a right to speak up about the policies that affect them.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #292
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    Dec. 18, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmedHope View Post
    How about this for a solution to the picking kids up at driveways and waiting: When bus pulls up little Johnny has two minutes to make an appearance on the front porch if little Johnny's mommy is unable to get him out the door so he is at least present outside and walking towards the bus in these two minutes, bus drives away. That's how it's been done for decades at bus stops (hell if there was no one present at the bus stop, my bus would just keep on driving past) and I don't think anyone should be entitled to any special treatment of making the whole world wait while they take their jolly old time getting little Johnny's jacket on.

    Remember the people that that are complaining about being stuck behind these buses pay taxes, which fund the school district and buses so they do have a right to speak up about the policies that affect them.
    What happens when the bus is early? Does the kid get more time? What about when it's late? Do they owe the kid more "minutes" the next day?

    How about everyone just get a grip, for Pete's sake! We're talking about kids getting on a school bus. I'm sure if the driver feels that certain kids are a repeat problem, they have a plan for addressing that student. Good lord!



  13. #293
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    Well you know what, just like everyone is saying to those that get stuck behind these buses, deal with it, inconveniences happen. The same applies to mommy getting Johnny ready and she should give her self some wiggle room of roughly 5 minutes.



  14. #294
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    Our buses do not stop and wait for children unless they are actively sprinting to the bus stop, so I really don't have an issue with that. However they did vary by approximately 15 minutes (early or later than the time assigned by the district) on a daily basis, which is pretty understandable in a rural area but highly irritating on a bad morning. Very few districts actually wait in a manner described in this thread.


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  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by alterhorse View Post
    The meaning of the above statement, seems to have the opposite meaning of the statement below.



    I think one can point to more problematic causes for childhood obesity and commuter gridlock, then parents caring enough about their kids to see them safely to a bus.
    Hmmmm....maybe, I dunno....watch them from your window of your house that is sitting about 20 feet from the end of the driveway? Because if you read the OP, we aren't talking about your rural driveway, miles long, blah blah, we are talking a few freaking feet.
    Equus Doth Indeed Makeus Brokeus. Or Brokeus Meus -- when you have a baby warmblood, it could be either one!



  16. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmedHope View Post
    Well you know what, just like everyone is saying to those that get stuck behind these buses, deal with it, inconveniences happen. The same applies to mommy getting Johnny ready and she should give her self some wiggle room of roughly 5 minutes.
    What makes you think they don't? How many kids in a row have you had to sit and wait for while commuting? 1 in 20? 1 in 30? Surely not every kid.

    Sure, it's annoying when the bus stops every 100 feet. (And they do stop at almost every house for kids in grades K-5 in my district; middle & high school kids use community stops unless rural roads). Leave earlier. Take a different route. Or put an audio CD in the car and deal with it. No one likes it, but it's not anyone's "fault" that the bus stops for kids.



  17. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    The difference is that your daughter cares, Laura. Different strokes for different folks. I tried that and my son had the rest of his class wearing PJs the rest of the week.
    Sorry, but I burst out laughing at that one.


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  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    Let's put it another way - when an elderly person pulls out in front of me (as they invariably do) when I'm late, do I b*tch and whine and moan about why they always do that? No. I've learned that perhaps there's a reason that they are still driving. Perhaps their family isn't around to get them their medication.

    Similarly with a tractor - I understand that that farmer may only have that one hour to get to that field that he hasn't been able to work because it's been raining for a month. It's MY fault that I'm late, not his that he's on the road.

    That empathy only develops through talking to elderly people, farmers, bicyclists etc. and starting to understand the challenges that they go through.
    I nominate this as best post of the thread.



  19. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    What makes you think they don't? How many kids in a row have you had to sit and wait for while commuting? 1 in 20? 1 in 30? Surely not every kid.

    Sure, it's annoying when the bus stops every 100 feet. (And they do stop at almost every house for kids in grades K-5 in my district; middle & high school kids use community stops unless rural roads). Leave earlier. Take a different route. Or put an audio CD in the car and deal with it. No one likes it, but it's not anyone's "fault" that the bus stops for kids.
    I still don't see why the two minute time limit is so terrible. Buses don't wait at group bus stops if one of the kids is not present, so what makes a kid getting picked up at his driveway so damn special that traffic has to back up for him?

    I do like the policy of getting the child on the bus and letting others pass before moving on to the next one.



  20. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmedHope View Post
    I do like the policy of getting the child on the bus and letting others pass before moving on to the next one.
    I agree.



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