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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2005
    Location
    Upper Midwest
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    5,714

    Default Water question when you tie your frost free line or barn water into your house

    We have rural water. Where does the tie in actually occur? At the house or somewhere in the yard where the pipe comes to the house? This is probably a dumb question to some, but does it have to tie in where there is already an outdoor faucet? Our basement is largely finished, of course, but the back yard faucet is on the wall of the unfinished portion (as are all the utilities, because that is the furnace/water heater room).

    We were looking at our two outdoor faucets yesterday and the front yard one is way out of the way and would require going under the driveway. The back yard is on the other side of utilities (propane line, electric, etc.).

    I'm seriously wondering how this is going to happen...and the field is at least 200 feet away and of course there is a stupid basketball court in the middle of the direct route... (gulps as visions of $$ signs flushing down a pipe dance by).

    I called the excavation company that was recommended to me, but they haven't returned my call yet. I believe we need to go about 4 feet deep. Yippeee.
    Siouxland Sporthorses: http://slsfarm.blogspot.com/

    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
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    12,004

    Default

    I am not exactly sure what you are asking. I think I get it. Hopefully I am answering your question.

    As far as the utility is concerned as long as you are on your side of the meter and backflow prevention they do not really care where you connect.

    The advantage of connecting to your water supply in your house and then running out to your hydrant is it allows you to have a separate shut off valve that is accessible inside your house. If something goes wrong with your hydrant (and we all know something with eventually) you can easily shut the water off in your basement and not affect the water to your other items. If you make a connection in an underground pipe outside you will not have a separate shut off and you are adding a fitting that might fail.

    If you are in an area that freezes you need to install your water line below the frost line. 4' seems like a typical location.

    ETA - If you are on a well it depends on what type of set up you have. You have to be on the correct side of your pressure tank, etc.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2002
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    4,977

    Default

    I'm not sure I understand - when you say rural water, are you on a well? We are, and this is how ours works, but I don't know if it is the usual way to do things. Our well is located above our house and water goes from well to holding tank in garage. All house and outside taps (including some frost free) come off tank. Barn also gets water from tank, including the frost frees there. The only faucet that does not come from that tank is one that is located right off the well.

    I'm not sure what you are asking, so my answer may not be helpful at all?!



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 10, 2011
    Posts
    852

    Default

    No, the tie in does not have to occur where there is already a faucet. It can happen anywhere between the street and your house. Where the water enters the house varys from home to home. Mine came around my house and in through the hose by my back door (coincidentally where the main shut off valve for the house is). My neighbor, who had the same builder, has his water coming from the street, under his foundation to his homes's back wall. He had to dig 6 feet of his front flower beds up to tie into his water to connect a pipe for his detached garage.

    I tied in about 6ft away from the house (found the pipe on accident). I have a shut off valve in the yard. Before they found the pipe (they hit in when they were burying the electrical) I was in the same boat because I had no idea where I could tie in. My guy said that you could have a pipe coming off your outdoor faucet but where that pipe would tie in would be exposed and therefore freeze.

    I had a septic tank and a ditch that they had to dig around. I feel your pain. It's expensive, but not having to haul buckets is glorious! Good luck!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
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    12,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fatappy View Post
    It can happen anywhere between the street and your house.
    Where is your water meter? At the street?



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2005
    Location
    Upper Midwest
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    5,714

    Default

    First, thank you for those who responded. This is giving me angst. I hate budgetary unkowns.

    Rural water meaning the county supplies the rural water--not well water. There may be well lines we will run into though as I'm told this pasture I'm running to was a cattle yard years ago and the rusted out frost-frees are still standing and run perpendicular to my intended line (the well was disconnected when the county came through with rural water--was only 37 feet deep--previous homeowner told me it was super nasty or I would use it for watering). I don't know where the well came into the house back in the day. Hadn't even thought about that bit of buried pipe...

    The water meter is in the unfinished basement (so back of the house) on the wall close to the water heater and furnace. So maybe it has to come from there??? There is so much stuff back there (air conditioner right outside the wall, etc.), all the utility lines run into the house there, etc. It is not a wide area, as there are parts of the house that extend out into the backyard on either side of this (hard to visualize, sorry). So the line would need to go straight south for 20 feet or so to clear the house/deck and then head west 200 feet (approx.). I'm pretty sure the propane guy told me their line could be anywhere from 1-3 feet deep depending...

    Of course everyone I talk to about this is very DIY, and just rented a trencher, but I think this is a bit beyond my comfort level. I'm also worried about buried electrical that isn't from the utility company--maybe they catch it all when they mark it. The falling down chicken coop has live electrical running to it underground (suprise!) and I'm guessing the grain bins did/do (had augers). Those are all to the south, but there is a concrete pad for an old cattle auto-waterer that is long gone that has power and that's off to the west (but south of my run). It's like some of the wires are in the air, but some go underground. Obviously I will call before digging...

    Ugh.
    Siouxland Sporthorses: http://slsfarm.blogspot.com/

    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
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    12,004

    Default

    You can connect into your water piping in your house anywhere you want to - after their meter. Your contractor will know this (I should hope, if not find a different contractor). Tell them you want a shut off valve for this line.

    Adding a new line off existing piping inside your basement like that is really a no big deal to anyone who does plumbing work. I can totally see it causing serious worries to someone who does not do plumbing work though.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb. 2, 2003
    Location
    Iowa, USA
    Posts
    2,394

    Default

    Why not go ahead and do the one-call locate now? It's a free service and would give you a sense of where the lines are-- maybe will narrow down your decisions about where to place the new hydrants. Your contractor will likely repeat the locate prior to digging, but that's not a big deal. I would go with most direct pipeline possible-- while it's nice to have a hydrant everywhere you want, given all your obstacles you might want to adjust fencelines vs. dig a byzantine path for pipes. The other thing I wonder is if you shouldn't just dig a well for the field watering. Curious if that would be cheaper in the long run?
    Try to break down crushing defeats into smaller, more manageable failures. It’s also helpful every now and then to stop, take stock of your situation, and really beat yourself up about it.The Onion



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2005
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    10,341

    Default

    If you have them come out and locate things for you, they can most likely answer your questions too.
    Our outdoor hydrant line come off the main line in the basement. It has a shut off valve so it can be shut off from inside.--no digging. Its location is unrelated to the outside faucets.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2005
    Location
    Upper Midwest
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    5,714

    Default

    I mentioned a deep well to my dad and he asked me if I had 20k to spend. Now he may be exaggerrating grossly, but he used to dig wells for his dad decades ago...

    I do know the original homeowner told me his 37 foot deep well always had water, but would make the hogs sick until they got used to it. Ultra hard too. This is pesticide/fertilizer country (surrounded by farms)...

    I'm not sure how deep you have to go to get to soft water??

    The closest pasture (east) is on the highway (negative) and will flood with heavy rain...oh and my septic field is out there (I understand that is not good to run horses over your drain field). South of the house would be much closer, an 85 foot straight line (and thre is already electric there). Maybe I should get the fire dept. out to burn the barn there sooner rather than later. Having the hydrant out there sort of sucks because then I loose my field driveway access from the East. The west pasture where I'm trying to go is such a nice spot because it is nestled between the thick north and west shelter belts.
    Siouxland Sporthorses: http://slsfarm.blogspot.com/

    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 10, 2011
    Posts
    852

    Default

    [QUOTE=HungarianHippo;6918612]Why not go ahead and do the one-call locate now? It's a free service and would give you a sense of where the lines are-- maybe will narrow down your decisions about where to place the new hydrants. [QUOTE]

    If you are reffering to 811, I have a caution on this. When you call 811, they will only mark lines laid by the city or it's affiliates (ATT, internet provider, etc). When I called about spraying my water (and I did this three times before i learned), they were only coming out and spraying the dot where my line met the cities. Anything beyond that was not their problem. Same with electrical. I had water and electrical running to an unknown place in my yard that was never sprayed because it was done by the previous homeowners. Not the city's problem.

    And, when they did lay my electrical and hit my water line, they also cut my cable and internet because it was about 15 feet from where Comcast had sprayed. So yeah. Calling 811 did me no good.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2005
    Location
    Upper Midwest
    Posts
    5,714

    Default

    I have had them do it in Oct. last year (that's how I have some idea that everything goes into there). Like fatappy, I'm worried about the lines the farm owners added after-the-fact.

    I had to pay $45 to have the propane line marked, which was a suprise when I got that bill. Luckily the flags are all still there.
    Siouxland Sporthorses: http://slsfarm.blogspot.com/

    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 2, 2003
    Location
    Iowa, USA
    Posts
    2,394

    Default

    We had a deep well re-dug--went a little under 200ft, and it was about $9k. You'd have to add the cost of a new pump, etc and this was 10yrs ago. But since we're in IA and I see you're in the midwest also, maybe it's worth a quote?
    I DEFINITELY would not use the icky shallow well .
    Going deeper didn't get to soft water, but for water troughs, not sure I'd care? It's not like you're showering or running it through appliances.

    I do keep the horses off the pasture with septic field when the ground is soft, i don't worry about it when it's baked or frozen hard.

    Bottom line I'd do anything I could to streamline this new water line, so if the barn is on the list to come down anyway, then yes, take it down. Hauling water for another year will prob be worth it, to give yourself time to get that stuff done.
    Try to break down crushing defeats into smaller, more manageable failures. It’s also helpful every now and then to stop, take stock of your situation, and really beat yourself up about it.The Onion



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep. 9, 2003
    Location
    Yellow Point, BC, Canada
    Posts
    1,025

    Default

    I have a suggestion- why not put in a rain water collection system, from your barn eavestrough, or other collection system. It's basically free water (well, once you pay for and install the collection tanks and lines and any purification that might need to be done). It can be above- or below-ground, and then your water bill won't go up, and the basketball court won't be disturbed Depending upon the initial cost, it may have paid for itself in as little as 2 years.
    Another owner of A Fine Romance baby who has grown up and joined the fun!!!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2006
    Location
    The rocky part of KY
    Posts
    9,298

    Default

    One of the not so wonderful things about buying a developed property is all the utilities running hither and yon underground. Second 811, they stayed out at the street and didn't touch a thing on the property,we can see that our electrical runs down the pole and underground to the meter, and the shop power runs from the meter to the shop so that whole area is not to be dug up. Our water has the meter at the street, it runs under the house foundation to the other side of the house and there is a cut off for the hydrant which is at the corner of the house and the house water both in the crawl space.

    If we extend the hydrant to the barn we will most likely tap into the line in the front yard and head across the front of the house where we don't think there are any buried pipes etc.

    I've heard of people witching for pipes before, if there's someone in your area it could save a lot of grief. A good friend of mine started work on his wife's dream home to the back of their property and discovered a natural gas service to his neighbor right smack in the middle of the homesite, the cost to have it relocated was the breaking point of their budget. If he'd had a guy out witching he might have found out about the lines and picked a different spot.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
    Incredible Invisible



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb. 2, 2003
    Location
    Iowa, USA
    Posts
    2,394

    Default

    side note: i've actually tried dowsing sticks and it totally works. I was blindfolded, and my friend moved buckets of water around in random pattern, some empty and some full, and I'll be damned if those sticks didn't cross over the full buckets like two magnets drawn to each other. It was really weird because i'm the biggest skeptic there is. (Now, would I authorize an excavator based on my dowsing rod skills? um, no )
    Try to break down crushing defeats into smaller, more manageable failures. It’s also helpful every now and then to stop, take stock of your situation, and really beat yourself up about it.The Onion



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