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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 7, 2011
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    11

    Default Chiro questions

    Okay this is a little long but want to try to include as much info as possible. So after not being able to get a chiro out for my horse for a very long time I found one. I literally called quite a few ones that are very reputable multiple times and only got one callback and she could only offer me one date that I could trailer the over 4 hours roundtrip to her and that date was not one I could do. I asked my vet's tech if she knew of any and she said she did and I called him. He answered right away (good sign or bad, hmmm) He made an appointment for the following week. I looked him up on the internet and found out he was a human chiro for 25 years but had just recently switched to horses. His site was professional complete with many testimonials.

    He arrived in his sporty car and teacup breed puppy in hand. Asked me to watch the puppy and proceeded to put on what I would call a "show." Showing me how my horse was sucking out my energy at a pain point until he "fixed her." I was not impressed but stuck with it. He found some issues and seemed legit and he did seem to make her feel better as she stopped showing negative reactions. He said he needed to see her again in two weeks.

    I rode her the next day and she was not much improved. The whole reason why I had him out was for what was happening under saddle, (ears back, hollowing back, etc.) I don't know he really understood. He is not a horse person but his wife is.

    By the time he came back I did seem some limited improvement in the horse. On the next visit. Same thing, puppy watch (okay the puppy is cute, but still a strange thing for a professional to do, but if he is good at what he does, that is okay by me) Luckily there were other people around to puppy watch because this visit my horse was not cooperating. She kept pushing forward and getting upset. He was not amused and proceeded to tell me I need to send her to a cowboy to learn manners.

    Finally did get her to relax and he found quite a number of "new" issues that he had not discovered last time including her being toed out in the back. (she has always been that way, but he missed it last time?) I find it hard to believe all these new things happened in 2 weeks when she was only lightly worked and had not had any particular incidents. He then said he did not need to come back for 2 months. (though he found more wrong with her this time)

    He seemed really aggravated she had not been 100% cooperative. I don't know if she is any better and guess I will reserve my opinion on his abilities until I ride her again but does this sound normal? I don't have experience with Chiro's so I just don't know.

    Thanks!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 5, 2013
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    204

    Default

    I've had it done twice on my horse... but the guy I am using is a vet who is only doing chiro now. He is super calm and really knows anatomy. I would steer clear from a human chiro now working on horses, especially if you don't know how he got his equine training.

    Grain of salt - I had to have back surgery at my L5/S1 from a bad human chiro working on me. I don't trust them and I think that soft tissue work does as much or more good than chiro. That said, I have used a chiro on my girl, but his veterinary credentials are impeccable.


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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2010
    Location
    Tucson
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    5,785

    Default

    Doesn't sound normal at all to me.

    For one, when a chiro has worked on my horse I have been limited in what I am supposed to do (no riding for sure) for a couple days.

    I could see a horse needing a return visit in 2 weeks, possible, but the 2 weeks then jump to 2 months makes it sound fairly arbitrary.


    Most of all, though, I think horses tell you whether someone is good or not. My horse melts with good bodyworkers.... and would likely try to kill a poor one if it hurt, because he doesn't suffer fools or unnecessary discomfort well. I think the fact your horse was worse the second visit probably tells you all you need to know - I say this without having been there, but based on my own experience.
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2013
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    342

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sfbayequine View Post
    I've had it done twice on my horse... but the guy I am using is a vet who is only doing chiro now. He is super calm and really knows anatomy. I would steer clear from a human chiro now working on horses, especially if you don't know how he got his equine training.

    Grain of salt - I had to have back surgery at my L5/S1 from a bad human chiro working on me. I don't trust them and I think that soft tissue work does as much or more good than chiro. That said, I have used a chiro on my girl, but his veterinary credentials are impeccable.
    I doubt highly your damage was done by a Chiropractor. I'm sure your medical quake told you that though.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2013
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    342

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sfbayequine View Post
    I've had it done twice on my horse... but the guy I am using is a vet who is only doing chiro now. He is super calm and really knows anatomy. I would steer clear from a human chiro now working on horses, especially if you don't know how he got his equine training.

    Grain of salt - I had to have back surgery at my L5/S1 from a bad human chiro working on me. I don't trust them and I think that soft tissue work does as much or more good than chiro. That said, I have used a chiro on my girl, but his veterinary credentials are impeccable.
    I doubt highly your damage was done by a Chiropractor. I'm sure your medical quake told you that though.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2013
    Location
    Sonoma County, Ca
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    14

    Default

    Knowledge of equine anatomy is absolutely essential to diagnose an equine problem and work on it. Sounds like you stumbled on a poser. And not all back pain is a chiropractic issue. It can also be muscular.
    _______________________________________

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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 7, 2011
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    11

    Default

    He said he went back to school for equine chiropractic. He told me to give her 24 hours off last time. I have seen mixed views about that on this forum. I think I am just going to keep trying to get one of the chiro's that are raved about to see her some how. Also will look into the muscular therapy as well.
    thanks!

    his website says he graduated from this program in 2010
    "graduated from the Options for Animals College in Wellsville, Kansas completing an intensive program on Animal Chiropractic. "
    Last edited by ThisMyAlter; Apr. 1, 2013 at 09:22 PM.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
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    Default

    It varies by state but many states require an equine chiro to be a vet. Your guy sounds like a complete flake to me and nothing like the experiences I have had with chiros in the past, all of whom are vets.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 7, 2011
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    Default

    thanks I think I got duped, seems some people like him, my vet's tech was just trying to help but ..................... be interesting to see how my horse feels after this last "adjustment," I posted as an alter just to be fair to the chiro since it was my first experience with one. Where I am pretty sure chiro do not have to be vets and some of the goods ones appear not to be. The one I really wanted to see my horse is but she is just so busy can't get an appointment unless I travel to her which is really difficult for me.

    Interesting on another thread about chiro's notice a lot of the popular ones around here are not certified, including many of the recommended ones by COTH.
    All so confusing!



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 2001
    Location
    Washington, DC
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    6,434

    Default

    i have only used chiros who are vets -- seems to be the norm here. I would agree with the poster who said your horse will tell you. When I have had someone good work on them it is quite obvious from THEIR immediate reactions, in addition to the improvement I feel subsequently.
    For certain issues it can be a dramatic improvement, but a good chiro/vet will also tell you when what an issue cannot be resolved with chiro.
    The big man -- no longer an only child

    His new little brother


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
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    Default

    My chiro is one who was originally a human chiro (and still is) then went to school for horses. The upside is that she also used to ride, so at least knows horses to some degree. So, not being a vet is not hindering her.

    However, your guy sounds like a wannabe - maybe he really did go to school, but WHICH school, what did he actually learn, what did he actually retain and what does he actually pick and choose to use?

    Based on what you described, he would not remotely be coming near my horses.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug. 6, 2012
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    151

    Default

    Our chiro also started out on people, but he's great. He tells us three days off after treatment. And he had no problem checking our horses and telling us no adjustment was needed if that was the case. My girl would always let out a huge sigh after her adjustments and just seemed so relaxed.

    I would def. try to find someone else.



  13. #13
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    Mar. 24, 2010
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    Tucson
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    Default

    The chiro I use is a vet, so I'm curious for those of you who use ones who aren't... The chiro I use checks for basic lameness/unevenness before and after working on my horse, trotting on flat ground to and away, in circles, etc. Do non-vet chiros do that? I think it helps give them info, including if they should do any chiro work at all!
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
    Posts
    8,425

    Default

    To the OP, I have three words for you:

    Quack, Quack, Quack.

    To Snowfox, chiros can and do cause injury as a result of failures to comply with appropriate standards of care. I've personally reviewed medical records of injuries up to and including quadriplegia. Medical doctors and osteopaths (and nurse practitioners and physical therapists and pharmacists and etc.) also cause injuries by failure to comply with appropriate standards of care.

    We are personally batting under .330 with chiros (three different ones). In baseball that's not bad; in a health science it's a disgrace.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2002
    Location
    Chesterton, IN US
    Posts
    1,300

    Default

    I've used 3 chiro's who were also vets. 2 were very, very good. They have standard western medicine to compliment the chiro. For example, mare was always out at the wither/shoulders. Her accupressure points also indicated pain in the feet. Since shoulder issues usually aren't primary, he recommended I have my regular vet out to x-ray her feet. X-rays showed some changes so I had her fetlocks injected. Without him, I wouldn't have realized that her shoulder tightness was actually caused by sore feet.

    I used 1 human chiro who took the horse course and does horses and he did a fine job. Found the same chronic areas that my regular vet/chiro did.

    I think it's like any other profession. There are good ones and there are quacks. Yours sounds like the latter, but I wouldn't coat the entire profession with the same brush.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2004
    Location
    South Park
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    3,094

    Thumbs up

    My horse chiro is also a vet - and appointments are about 6 weeks out. They last about 1 hour per horse and may include lameness evaluations (flexions, etc)
    A friend told me I was delusional. I almost fell off my unicorn.



  17. #17
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    Jan. 5, 2013
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    204

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    To the OP, I have three words for you:

    Quack, Quack, Quack.

    To Snowfox, chiros can and do cause injury as a result of failures to comply with appropriate standards of care. I've personally reviewed medical records of injuries up to and including quadriplegia. Medical doctors and osteopaths (and nurse practitioners and physical therapists and pharmacists and etc.) also cause injuries by failure to comply with appropriate standards of care.

    We are personally batting under .330 with chiros (three different ones). In baseball that's not bad; in a health science it's a disgrace.

    G.
    Thanks for that Guilherme. When the chiropractor made the bad adjustment it was like no pain I had ever felt. No quack had to tell me anything. Given that I could not walk, sit or stand shortly after it was a pretty good indication that something had gone wrong. Anything that manipulates the spine in humans or animals should not be undertaken lightly.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2012
    Posts
    113

    Default

    I think OP's chiro sounds bad for a number of reasons but most importantly because the horse didn't want the second treatment.

    I've used 3 equine chiros over the years - two are fabulous and one should not be allowed to touch horses ever again. None of the three are vets. Two of the three have training in human chiro including the one that's really bad. The two good ones actually ride (one western and one dressage) and those two are both very aware and knowledgable about the stress we put on our working horses, even at the lower levels of sport.

    My expectation of my horse chiro is that he/she be well trained in equine anatomy and medicine and to be good to my horses. I want to see positive changes in movement & attitude after every treatment. No chiro adjustment should be rough or uncomfortable.

    And as to bringing a dog - no big deal so long as a client isn't expected to care for it! You're paying the guy to treat your horse, and the focus should be on your horse not on his dog!



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2007
    Location
    Triangle Area, NC
    Posts
    6,704

    Default

    My Chiro travels all over the US, and is amazing. He utilizes a combo of Chiro and trigger point massage. See if he comes to your area.
    Animalkrackersequine.com
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep. 5, 2007
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    2,134

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    I have a chiro out regularly for my guy. He does several horses at my barn and also treats a few owners as well. Very professional, does a great job and I have found the results to be excellent. Following the 1 hour treatment, we hand walk for 20 minutes, then hand walk the next day (he can be turned out as usual), then light riding the third day. Back to normal under saddle activity by the fourth day. We saw him two weeks after the first treatment and second treatments, then a month later and now we are at every 6-8 weeks, if needed.
    "I am still under the impression that there is nothing alive quite so beautiful as a thoroughbred horse." -- John Galsworthy



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