The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 50
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep. 24, 2008
    Posts
    1,668

    Default If you knew.....

    Let's just say you know of a situation where a "trainer" is given an upper level horse to work with, rides the horse a total of 3 times in a month and longes him the rest of the time. Would you tell the owner/make sure the owner found out? (You don't know the owner personally.) Or would you leave it alone and hope karma takes care of it because, after all, the horse isn't suffering?

    NJR
    Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2009
    Location
    Montreal, Qc
    Posts
    2,915

    Default

    Do you know the details of the arrangement?

    How do you know the owner doesn't know?

    What is your take in this?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct. 4, 2010
    Location
    Middle America
    Posts
    551

    Default

    I've been there before. And I couldn't say anything because of my relationship to the parties involved.

    In this case, the owner figured it out pretty darn quickly. And word spread, too.

    I'd probably only stick my nose in, if a) I REALLY knew, first-hand, what was going on day-to-day in the horse's "training", and b) if the owner was a good friend.
    In order to think outside the box, one must first know what is in the box.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep. 24, 2008
    Posts
    1,668

    Default

    Let's say the details of the arrangement were full training with an aim of showing the horse up a level this year.

    I'm pretty sure the owner doesn't know they are paying full training and getting 3 rides and some longeing a month. I suppose it could happen that someone would be happy with that, but I'm doubtful.

    My "take" is that an absentee owner is being taken advantage of.

    I have realized that the situation is going to be self-limiting because at some point the owners are going to want the horse shown and will see that everything is not as it should be. Still, comments appreciated.

    NJR
    Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2007
    Location
    Triangle Area, NC
    Posts
    6,704

    Default

    It could also be that said horse has holes in his training that need to be addressed on the longe. Longing is training
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble


    5 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2006
    Posts
    8,500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
    It could also be that said horse has holes in his training that need to be addressed on the longe. Longing is training
    If it is an upper level horse, it really ought to be able to make enough sense of the aids to be trained under saddle.

    I get longing for, "This is contact, here's how to go forward into it, and let's teach you some bridging voice commands."

    But by the time the horse is trained to go steer and stop undersaddle, is there really something that two inert sidereins, a longewhip, and a 20m circle round and round and round can accomplish better than a human skillfully applying the aids? Really, the side reins are going to teach the horse better than tactful sentient hands?

    I mean, long lines I would get. You can do a whole GP test on the long lines.
    But when people longe trained horses around and around and around I completely don't get it, unless for some reason theirr hands aren't good enough to be better than side reins.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 24, 2011
    Posts
    500

    Default

    Why do you care?

    I mean, unless you are friends with the owner and are privy to their arrangement then mind your own freaking business.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2005
    Posts
    588

    Default

    I wouldn't. It would be different if the horse were in danger or if I knew the owner well, but otherwise, I just wouldn't feel like it was my story to tell. The truth will come out eventually, but I wouldn't feel like it was my place to get involved.

    JMO.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2009
    Location
    Montreal, Qc
    Posts
    2,915

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nojacketrequired View Post
    Let's say the details of the arrangement were full training with an aim of showing the horse up a level this year.

    I'm pretty sure the owner doesn't know they are paying full training and getting 3 rides and some longeing a month. I suppose it could happen that someone would be happy with that, but I'm doubtful.

    My "take" is that an absentee owner is being taken advantage of.

    I have realized that the situation is going to be self-limiting because at some point the owners are going to want the horse shown and will see that everything is not as it should be. Still, comments appreciated.

    NJR
    But you don't know.

    Horse just got there. Maybe he's not in shape? (Despite being an upper level horse)

    Maybe you haven't seen all the rides? Maybe the trainer rode him twice a week or at least once a week and lunge him the rest of the time.

    Maybe the horse is not as good as you think he is. Maybe he needs the lunging.

    Maybe the owners don't have that much money and this trainer does exactly what s/he is paying for.

    I assume you are talking about the month of March. And the show season starts like in a month or so... Do you also know why this horse wasn't in training before that? You cannot expect to go up a level in such a short amount of time.

    What 'upper level' are we talking about here? My friend rides her GP schoolmaster 2-3 times a week and lunge him the rest of the time and he is fine with that.

    Again, what would you benefit by telling the owner?
    Why are you kinda stalking this trainer?

    Have faith in people, I bet those owners aren't idiots and will find out soon enough if something isn't right.

    Or you could always go up to them and say : Hey! How is your horse doing? He's been very good everyday on the lunge, can't wait to see him ridden!!!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep. 24, 2008
    Posts
    1,668

    Default

    He didn't just get there. This has been a number of months now.

    I'm not kinda stalking this trainer. S/he's doing this in full view of everyone with eyes.

    Regardless, I'll just keep my mouth shut and wait to see how it comes out. Always something interesting going on, right?

    NJR
    Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behaviour does.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2009
    Location
    Montreal, Qc
    Posts
    2,915

    Default

    Then the trainer is visibly not ashamed of what s/he is doing, you can only assume that this is what s/he supposed to be doing. Not everyone can pay for 5-6 pro rides a week.

    And, as I said, you could always kindly ask the owners if they are happy with the progress of their horse.

    I also don't always agree with what goes on at my barn; lessons that are given by pros and 'training' sessions.... but if the owner/rider is happy, who am I to rip their dreamz appart? I'm not there to cause drama, I'm there to ride.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr. 27, 2012
    Location
    SE Pennsylvania
    Posts
    108

    Default

    Are you paying for the training? Because IMHO, unless you are, this is none of your business and you should keep your mouth shut. You have no idea what sort of arrangement has been worked out between the owner of the horse and the trainer. The better part of valor is discretion, always.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2007
    Location
    Triangle Area, NC
    Posts
    6,704

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    If it is an upper level horse, it really ought to be able to make enough sense of the aids to be trained under saddle.

    I get longing for, "This is contact, here's how to go forward into it, and let's teach you some bridging voice commands."

    But by the time the horse is trained to go steer and stop undersaddle, is there really something that two inert sidereins, a longewhip, and a 20m circle round and round and round can accomplish better than a human skillfully applying the aids? Really, the side reins are going to teach the horse better than tactful sentient hands?

    I mean, long lines I would get. You can do a whole GP test on the long lines.
    But when people longe trained horses around and around and around I completely don't get it, unless for some reason theirr hands aren't good enough to be better than side reins.
    There is a LOT that can be accomplished on the longe. It is an art with depth as deep as dressage itself. Most riders and trainers have not explored it as deeply, and therefore feel similar to what you've posted.
    Side reins play an important role in a horse's development because of their ability to make the training all about the horse, and remove the psychological effects of a rider. This gives the horse the opportunity to focus just on themselves and the very clear cause and effect of their actions.

    And "upper level" really does not guarantee a solid training foundation. Just in the last year I've gotten in a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd level horse, all of which had to go back and learn what rhythm and forward really mean.
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble


    9 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
    Location
    Waterford, VA USA
    Posts
    4,798

    Default

    If that were one of my horses in training I would appreciate a phone call. As an out-of-town owner you always find out the hard way - i. e. after months of paying thousands of dollars for training, the horse is making no progress and the trainer attributes it to lack of talent on the part of the horse, or whatever. I don't understand why some folks are willing to sweep such behavior under the rug, so to speak....
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.


    20 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    11,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by siegi b. View Post
    I don't understand why some folks are willing to sweep such behavior under the rug, so to speak....
    Because most people do not know the details and why make a stink about something you do not know anything about?
    One should not assume they know they details.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2011
    Posts
    1,188

    Default

    I've seen this situation work both ways. Many eons ago, I worked for a trainer that rode the horses about once a week, and we longed the horses the rest of the time. She was such a "talented" rider that the horses would learn with those few rides and go out and win everything. Owners didn't question her methods, because they were getting what they wanted..a winning horse. I have also seen the reverse happen...horses is never ready to compete, because (fill in the blank and pay more money to the trainer..next time, next show...never happened). Owner found out and threatened wire fraud lawsuit and got horse home after losing thousands... So, it goes both ways. Has the horse progressed?



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct. 16, 2008
    Location
    Central Oklahoma
    Posts
    3,047

    Default

    If I feel chivalrous and are really convinced that something is amiss, when opportunity present itself such as when we happen to sit side by side for lunch, I might chat with the owner to see what the arrangement is. However, remember that Petstorejunkie is absolutely right in that longing can be a valuable training tool so don't come in ready to accuse the trainer.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2009
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
    There is a LOT that can be accomplished on the longe. It is an art with depth as deep as dressage itself.
    ^ This


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2004
    Location
    Saratoga Springs, NY
    Posts
    4,539

    Default

    Without knowing the agreement between owner and trainer, or the training program the trainer has in mind for the horse, I'd MYOB. Who knows what arrangements they've made?
    Different Times Equestrian Ventures at Hidden Spring Ranch
    www.DifferentTimesEquestrianVentures.com


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2004
    Posts
    7,538

    Default

    and we wonder how people can get away with so much in the horse world

    OP, if i were the person paying for full training i would want your input. your challenge is to let the owner know what you have seen in a way that doesn't attack or assume anything.

    i do not know the best way of bringing it up - but i for sure would want the info if you had it.


    10 members found this post helpful.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: Nov. 28, 2012, 03:37 PM
  2. IF I knew who did this....
    By pj in forum The Menagerie
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: Sep. 3, 2012, 02:56 PM
  3. Old Fracture you never knew of?
    By Alagirl in forum Off Course
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: Oct. 11, 2011, 01:29 PM
  4. I knew I was forgetting something!
    By Laurierace in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Jan. 1, 2010, 10:25 PM
  5. Who Knew It Cost So Much?!
    By indygirl2560 in forum Hunter/Jumper
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: Mar. 10, 2009, 10:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •