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  1. #1
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    Default Educational system and recent changes

    I was talking to an educator recently and they commented that more and more parents are expecting the schools to raise their children. I remember a quote from a law maker stating something to the same effect. Basically - the teacher's role is to raise the child.

    Do you think the education system is changing? Do you think parent aren't as involved in their children's lives as they were in past generations? Are parents just too busy with work, etc. and they expect teachers to make up the difference?


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  2. #2
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    Jan. 26, 2010
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    Oh jeese. You're never going to let me go to the barn are you? This is SUCH a hot button question for me. I was going to write it.

    AS a teacher of 15 years, a lot of this is happening. We have great parents, but we also have so many kids in such bad situations that if we don't take care of these kids, we are allowing them to be raised to be leeches on society.

    I've had unending kids transferring into my class because they're being pulled out of the other middle school because it is out of control. These kids show up 2, maybe 3 days a week and do nothing. Mostly I try to keep them in my class so they don't vandalize the school or sell drugs. I have one girl who had something "unimaginable" to deal with (counselor's words) that was out again because she told me someone threatened to kill her and come and shoot up the school.

    I used to have 1 or 2 kids that did nothing. Now I have 10 to 15. These kids I tell about 40 to 50 times (in about 1 1 2/ hours) to stop staring at the wall, stop chewing on your fingers, stop drawing on your hands, stop picking at the paper and DO something that is very easy to do and all you have to do. Some parents have given up on them. Some parents are psychotic and wonder why their child isn't getting a passing grade like he is in every other class (even though he/she is illiterate) because every other teacher has passed him on and doesn't want to deal with it.

    Sigh. Yeah. I told this to my principal when he said out job is to be the parent figure at school. I said no way, my JOB is to TEACH, including being honest with them about abilities, getting after them for not doing work or behaving, and not to make them feel happy and comfortable sitting there doing nothing and being a jackass.


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  3. #3
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    May. 30, 2006
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    617

    Default

    Totally agree with the above post. I work in many different schools and it is amazingly apparent when kids have supportive parents at home who have expectations and boundaries for their children. *Amazing.* I have worked in schools where the kids are out of control and in schools where kids are there to learn. It's just a complete difference. There are great teachers in both schools.

    I do think that many parents are not doing the job of setting the expectations for life, but I also think that many of those same parents do not want to have teachers set expectations and boundaries. Pretty frustrating.


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  4. #4
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    Jan. 14, 2003
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    It's pretty scary when you think about it. It seems that teachers are not really allowed to discipline or hold kids accountable and have to put up with all sorts of crap and yet on the other hand, they are expected to parent the kids. There is something missing form the equation.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
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    Sep. 13, 2006
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    Default

    When I was a kid there was a brain damaged grown man who used to stand on the corner, yelling at people, peeing if he needed to, punching cars, whatever, his parents were in 40s when there only child was born so they were old by this time. No one expected him to behave cause he was retarded I know its a horrible word but that was what he was called back then. My neighbor who was nobodys fool & raised 3 kids of her own was elected to take care of him when his parents passed, & he learned how to behave because SHE EXPECTED HIM TO. If he did something wrong she corrected him, so slmost anyone clan learn. Dont stop expecting kids to behave, it may be the only time they are asked to. Plus the parents get a check if there kid acts up so theres no reason to make them act right.
    “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.” Peter Drucker


    4 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
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    Jun. 16, 2011
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    As a teacher I will say that more parents expect us to do the work while if the child turns out well they take the glory.

    I think a lot of admin has bowed to the parents and told the teachers to do x y and z and the parent and child do nothing. Then if the child does not learn it is our fault.

    I tell my students that their job is to learn and my job is to teach but it is their responsibility to make an effort.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
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    Aug. 2, 2004
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    Agree with sketcher.

    Only it's not just teachers, it's everyone. Parents expect everyone else to raise their children. Pre-school, day care, teachers, law enforcement. I can't tell you how many times I contact families with "out of control" seven year olds, or fourteen year olds who "won't listen to me!" Um...did you try to be a parent when the kiddo was four? three? nine?

    Try being a cop and getting called to a house because a parent can't get his/her 10 year old out of bed to go to school. YES. Parents call 9-1-1 for this! What the what? And we HAVE TO GO. I had the same parent call in and ask for me three different times in one night, after I busted her 15 year old for stealing beer, first time was "when you bring him home, what if he starts yelling at us? he gets aggressive..." So I have a talk with the boy, tell him about how I will come back and arrest his butt if he touches his mother and he just needs to follow house rules, it's not hard. I kick him loose at the door, explain how mom has the right to not allow his friends to come over, has the right to know their names, and has the right to tell them to empty their pockets before coming in. This was more for mom than boy... Twenty minutes later, she calls back in "he's threatening to run away now." I call her back and tell her, hey, you're the mom, be one. She calls back two hours later, "he keeps coming in my room and waking me and his sister up." My Sgt took this one over, it was a very short conversation. STOP WASTING POLICE TIME BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO PARENT.

    /vent

    I tell deans at the local HS (when I'm responding for some issue or another), that there is just no way I could do their job. Same responsibilities, deal with messes parents create, and no power to leave, or call parents and give them verbal slaps up side the head? No thanks. No envy.
    COTH's official mini-donk enabler

    "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8

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    I am just about finished with student teaching and I gotta say... you see a lot of kids whose parents are just setting them up to fail. No one double checking homework, no one seeming to notice that Suzy is really struggling, no one making sure Suzy comes to school with her stuff, etc. Some parents seem to think fourth graders should be totally independent little adults. Sorry, not happening with all of them. Some, not all.

    I think parents need to be parents but also need to recognize what they are not. They are not profesisonal educators. They are not doctors. I had a parent the other week drop off her son late and ask me if I thought he should take his meds that day (he has PPD and ADHD) because he got up late. Do I look like a doctor, lady? While I might believe that yes, your kiddo should take his meds, and no, I don't see how getting up late would change that, I am not legally allowed to tell you that as I AM NOT A DOCTOR.... and neither are you. There are parents out there who are basically self medicating thier kids. I don't know how this is possible or why they think it's a good idea... but it really does not benefit the kids in the long run.

    Leaving the doctoring to the doctors, the teaching to the teachers, and raise your child with manners, a worth ethic, and lots of support in academics.


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  9. #9
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    Nov. 25, 2005
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    LMAO.

    I teach high school. In an area where over 70% of the kids get free lunch. It is OBVIOUS which kids have parents who get it and parents who don't. I'm not even saying parents that care- parents that GET IT. We just had 2nd semester parents night. I had a parent in with her daughter who has a crappy grade in my class. DD somehow LOST her progress report from 2nd period to 8 PM. Mom just said, yup that's her! Are you kidding me? That's it? On the other hand, I had parents come in that wanted to know why their kid's grade was so low... she had a B+. Guess who's parents are teaching their kid to make the most of every opportunity they get?

    At least my kid that sets things on fire transferred...


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
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    Jan. 26, 2006
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    Default

    nanny state .... brith to grave


    6 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
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    Feb. 14, 2003
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    Windward Farm, Washougal, WA- our work in progress, our money pit, our home!
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    Clanter--no. What we have here is "self-absorbed adult state". This ain't about economics, politics or Obama. 20 years as an educator, I've seen a steady decline in the act of "parenting"--you know, that crazy idea that the adult is right, the adult dishes out discipline, the adult teaches responsibility, compassion, consideration and respect to their child? Yeah that idea!

    I've got kids who are being raised by Iphone/Ipod, DVD player and unlimited spending to keep them occupied and out of their parent's hair. Granted, I have a ton of kids who are great--clearly being raised well by caring and responsible parents. We are in a community of 51% free/reduced lunch status--lots of haves and lots of have nots. I'd say both pools produce quality kids/parenting in equal numbers.
    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!


    13 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    Jan. 26, 2010
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    Not nanny state, the if I say it enough, it becomes true Bush mantra. I noticed a HUGE difference in lack of responsibility when Bush came into office--no kidding. He never took responsibility for anything, and it transferred to all politicians and the public. Its slightly better now with Obama, with the kids, not the politicians.

    The whole thing is so frustrating to me I'm trying to start a revolution in my district. NO ONE wants to hold the line and buck up and be tough--EVERY SINGLE success story in turn arounds in education is more work, longer hours, stricter. We finally got out lying SOB union president out and I've already talked to the new one about this. Our school board is wondering why out testing scores are going down when our grades look so good. I've been fighting complaints of "bullying" children for years because of low grades (no kidding) and so has every other good teacher I now that teaches and grades at grade level. Now we've got common core, which are what I teach anyway, but some people are freaking out because the testing requires they actually KNOW what they're doing. Our district office CYA'd every which way about how great a job they are doing about education, but NO wants to talk about we grade too damn high, expect WAY too little, and have WAY too many people not doing their job.

    A lot of this comes down to the squeaky wheel. Parents love to squeak and threaten to sure all of the time. Our current personnel director and my ex-principal is all about appeasing them. You can see the decline because of this. 50% for missing work, everyone has higher grades, more pressure on teachers doing their jobs, and declining test scores. I think the only way we can make progress is to squeak. We REALLY need to sue a few bad parents. That would be a start. I am trying to start a committee to start from kindergarden up raising the standards and lower grades so we set kids up for reality, and success, not failure. Right now some teachers in my middle school give 95 to 99% passing grades, and 50% of these kids are failing freshman classes in high school. The focus has always been on complaints from parents, which are ALWAYS about low grades. I am trying to figure out how to turn it around and focus on getting lazy damn teachers to do their job, and lazy damn parents to do their jobs, and teach them if need be.

    We do have SO many great parents, but their voices are not heard, because sane people don't harass people doing their jobs. But, it's time for the meek to inherit the schools and we need to change the dialogue.

    And we need to get rid of iphones and such! I can't believe parents are spending $70 a month on these! That's a college education. And these kids are on it ALL of the time, like 10 hours a day, but they can't manage to write 800 words a week on a piece of paper or read a book. The more access a kid has to technology, the lower the grade, almost 100%.


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  13. #13
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    May. 6, 2004
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    As a 15 year veteran teacher, I cannot even begin to respond to this. There are no words other than I am very, very afraid of what this country will be in 20ish years when the entitled generation runs the workforce.
    "Life is too short to be a slave to the whims of others." -- RugBug, COTH


    13 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
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    Dec. 4, 2005
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    Default

    Well, we could all just look down a few threads about the parents of a 24 year old adult who would rather sit home and play video games all day rather than contribute to his own life or much less contribute to society. The parents who wring their hands and enable rather than parent. Pretty simple answer, I would say.

    I am not saying the Dept of Education is all roses and perfection, it's not.
    The Knotted Pony

    Proud and upstanding member of the Snort and Blow Clique.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
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    Feb. 13, 2009
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    The teachers have been pretty vocal here, but as a parent - I'll never forget the day my first grader came home and with a delighted smile told me "Guess what? You can't scold me anymore. Or ground me or anything. My teacher says that if you do anything at home that I don't like, I can come to school and report you."

    All with a smile, to her it was a big joke, haha, I can "tell" on Momma.
    We had a sit down and I explained to her what that really meant. Because how it was presented to her was that I couldn't scold her, ground her, take away her things, make her do anything she didn't want to, make her eat her veggies - if a 6 year old didn't like it, she was to report it to her teacher.
    Yeah, shades of 1984, right?

    But, way to go teachers! Start totally undermining a parent's authority as soon as the kid's out of kindergarten, and then sit back and gripe that parent's won't parent.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
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    Dec. 4, 2005
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    Are you in Chicago?
    The Knotted Pony

    Proud and upstanding member of the Snort and Blow Clique.



  17. #17
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    I was busy with my prep period about 45 minutes before my afternoon kindergarten class started when a Mom walked in, sat her son down with his McDonald's Happy Meal and then turned to walk out. I called out to her and explained that A) I was in and out of my room during prep and he could not be there by himself, B) it was too early for noon duties to be on the play ground to supervise and he couldn't be out there alone and, C) the rule is that a student can't be dropped off earlier than 25 minutes prior to their bell.

    She stopped, looked me up and down and said, "Well, I have a hair appointment in 20 minutes, you'll have to watch him". And she turned and walked out. As far as she was concerned, kindergarten was nothing more than a baby-sitting service. This kiddo never returned homework, was often off task and sometimes rude. His older brother was in 3rd grade and had very similar behavior.

    Thankfully most parents aren't like that. But dealing with parents/students like this takes time away from the families/students who are actually there to learn.
    Sheilah


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
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    Idaho Rider, we had the same problem at my gym. We had a preschool type program combined with gymnastics that was very popular. We had to lock the door until it was time for the class to start (they had their own entrance) and charge $1 a minute for every minute they were late over 10 minutes. First offense got a warning. It's entitlement...suburban Baltimore style.

    I could tell you stories....

    I have to say, I haven't seen as much "entitlement" since I moved to the boonies in KY.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    parents are expecting the schools to raise their children
    Teachers say this all the time. Funny thing is you never hear parents say that. Hmmmmmm. In fact, you often hear the reverse. Public education isn't about teaching students what they need to be self-supporting in the future. It is about indoctrination.

    Teacher quality in the US is fairly low compared to other countries. This is one cry of many excuses offered for their lack of ability. To hear educators tell it, when students fail, it's the parents fault. When students succeed, it's because of their teachers. The world just doesn't work that way.
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.


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  20. #20
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    This didn't start with either Bush. The seeds of this started IMO with the Boomers and then as many of them were so busy "doing their thing" during the 1970's many kids were left to their own devices. Those 70's kids are now the parents and some cases the grandparents of the kids in schools today.
    DH and I have mentored boys at the local military school. Over half of the kids are from broken marriages, parents with some sort of addiction or single moms where the sperm donor either left or never was there. Of the last two kids, mom is "overseas" and the other mom drove down for her son's graduation and told DH she couldn't handle him and put him in our care. Then she got in her vehicle and left.

    Everyone dropped the ball and now everyone will have to figure out how to work together to resolve. Starting with the parents who need to take responsibility for their own children. While I appreciate educators encouraging children to speak up about abuse, often it comes back to the parent as you can't discipline me anymore. And I have heard this from many parents over the past 20 or so years.
    I don't know if the PTA is still active, extra work for both parents and teachers, but it is better for the both to work together and be consistent with the kids. My sibling and I knew our parents were in contact with our teachers, understand there are 5 of us, so if we acted up or out, our parents knew about it.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


    5 members found this post helpful.

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