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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_BaldStockings View Post
    I think pigeonholing people is labeling for convenience no matter how it is done.

    And the purpose is to be able to respond to an amorphous 'position' not an individual human opinion.

    A person can be of the opinion that slaughter is not a valid disposal method without being a rabid RARA monster.

    Or a person can be of the opinion that slaughter is the best disposal method without being a bloody ripper monster.


    That does seem to be where the discussions end up, however.

    I wonder, if faced with the problem of 'a horse you know personally' being discovered in a similar situation: what ideas does anyone have of changing a step here or there that would change the outcome?
    That is how I looked at the discussion.
    I think that the slaughter plants have protocols for such situations.
    I expect the protocol was followed, the current owner the one to make decisions, the meat tested and disposed as indicated by their regulations.

    If the horse was considered not legally bought and sold, then their protocol may, as in the Dallas plant, call for putting a hold on the horse.

    I expect the investigation will determine what happened and if their rules were broken, that will be remedied and fixed.
    Sad that the horse died, whatever way it happened, properly if sold for slaughter, that is legal to do and even sadder if someone really wanted another chance at the horse, was not just covering their behind after dumping it, as it possibly may have happened here, we don't know but one side of this story.


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  2. #102
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    bluey, your mission from what I can see is to intimidate people.

    Sadly not everyone has a thick enough skin to ignore or laugh about your copy-and-paste ramblings.

    There are plenty of people out there who feel that you are calling them names with your constant RARA labeling.

    But that's your goal: Keep them from voicing an opinion, offering solutions or just simply participating in a discussion on a public horse forum.

    As much as you always gripe about dictatorship from your prior life, you sure seem to have turned into a dictator yourself.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    19 members found this post helpful.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    bluey, your mission from what I can see is to intimidate people.

    Sadly not everyone has a thick enough skin to ignore or laugh about your copy-and-paste ramblings.

    There are plenty of people out there who feel that you are calling them names with your constant RARA labeling.

    But that's your goal: Keep them from voicing an opinion, offering solutions or just simply participating in a discussion on a public horse forum.

    As much as you always gripe about dictatorship from your prior life, you sure seem to have turned into a dictator yourself.
    You really are not serious there, are you.

    I think those so intent on branding slaughter and anyone not for banning it as evil page after page are the ones trying to silence any other opinion expressed here, with their name calling of any that don't agree with them.

    Anyone that tries to explain why it is a process only, not evil in itself as animal rights extremists want to make of it, how SOME horses used once more thru slaughter has been one more use of the natural, renewable resource humans have made uses of for millenia, that is reason to attack those posters personally as not caring enough, as being ogres, look how "disgusting" slaughter is.
    Tell me, who here has pages of copy and paste to show for, whole long posts of it?
    It is not me, if you have noticed that or not.

    That post of yours above is a prime example of a personal attack.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    bluey, your mission from what I can see is to intimidate people.



    good lord....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  5. #105
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    She also likes to bait me with that natural resource thing. *runs screaming*

    I'm not even entirely opposed to slaughter, only for as much as it has been.

    A dumping ground for irresponsible breeders big and small. A crappy kill method, a really crappy pipeline for the species, including transport. A total lack of oversight and testing.

    You want slaughter? Start with those penned wild horses that have yet to see a needle or a kind hand.

    Show me it can be better. I'm still waiting, no takers thus far.


    13 members found this post helpful.

  6. #106
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    I think it's wrong if people have sent Bluey PM's calling him/her names, though I'm skeptical anyone would waste their time doing it.

    Do you remember this thread?

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...errerid=118027

    I made contact with the RARA's (who, by the way, never claimed that was horse vomit), and they answered my questions. It's very clear that their mission is something I can't support, but they responded to me in an intelligent and polite way, very different from the responses of the anti-RARA's here. If you believe you are right, let the other person's position speak for itself. Don't misrepresent or insult them. In the immortal words of my boss, "MOST PEOPLE AREN'T STUPID."


    10 members found this post helpful.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discobold View Post
    I think it's wrong if people have sent Bluey PM's calling him/her names, though I'm skeptical anyone would waste their time doing it.

    Do you remember this thread?

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...errerid=118027

    I made contact with the RARA's (who, by the way, never claimed that was horse vomit), and they answered my questions. It's very clear that their mission is something I can't support, but they responded to me in an intelligent and polite way, very different from the responses of the anti-RARA's here. If you believe you are right, let the other person's position speak for itself. Don't misrepresent or insult them. In the immortal words of my boss, "MOST PEOPLE AREN'T STUPID."
    No one has sent me PMs calling me names for a while now.
    My comment was that people PM telling me they agree with me, that ban slaughter drive is not in the best interest of horses or the horse industry, but that they won't post about it because of the name calling.

    They also said that some of the antis are fanatics that will then hound them in the real world and who wants that.
    I don't think any that is against the ban slaughter drive would do that.
    That is a big difference from one position on this to the other, that is what my point with that comment was.
    It is silly to say those that don't want the ban are in any way doing other than defending themselves, while those antis that want slaughter banned are the ones more apt to be name callers in their zest for the cause, here "ban slaughter!"

    You know, I don't think there are any "bad" people on either side of these discussion.
    There are people expressing their opinion and that is what open, public forums are all about, I think.


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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADM7040 View Post

    The current EID documents are inadequate as well. First of all, if answered truthfully to the spirit of the document, it still only requires 6 months of history and there are plenty of commonly administered substances which are, by regulation, never to administered to animals intended for human consumption. In actual practice, the document is pretty meaningless as illustrated by the fate of Backstreet Bully and many, many others.

    I do not understand how the pro-slaughter faction can continue to push that breaking these regulations is a non-issue. If regulations regarding possible contamination of the human food chain are blown off, how in the world can the industry expect the general population to believe their other promises to improve compliance on past infractions.


    Fairfax constantly alludes to new testing that will allow them to test every horse while it is still alive. I have asked for him to tell us more about this, but he has ignored every one of my requests so I have to question if this is really being developed. A test such as this would be important and would show that the industry is truly trying to improve.
    The test I remember Fairfax talking about is for Bute. I would be interested to learn if it tests fat, muscle, blood or all three. Then there's the question of the accumulation of drugs in the organs. How do you test for that on a live animal, and at what cost and what do we really think the compliance with that would be?

    There are many more, commonly used drugs on that list of 'never to be administered to horses for Human Consumption' that would therefore not be tested for... or else the test covers more than bute?

    Which is it? I doubt we'll ever get a straight answer. It hasn't happened thus far...


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #109
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    The worst is when someone gives away a horse to a supposed "good home", and 16 days later that horse is sold to a kill buyer through OLEX in St. Jacobs. Diamond is one of the rare, lucky ones thanks to one good judge of horses and a group of people who cared - as well as LongRun (a thoroughbred retirement society)....he would have been slaughtered on Tuesday, they day he was shipped back to OLEX where we picked him up.
    That horse is currently finishing his breakfast in a QT pasture, and will be coming home to join my other OTTB geldings in three weeks.
    So far.... http://wilddiamondintherough.blogspot.ca/
    I've started a blog on him, and am probably going to do a thread on him soon!
    Last edited by DeeThbd; Apr. 1, 2013 at 10:55 AM.
    Founder of the I LOFF my worrywart TB clique!
    Official member of the "I Sing Silly Songs to My Animals!" Clique
    http://wilddiamondintherough.blogspot.ca/


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #110
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    DeeThbd, Diamond could have been my Bluey...looks and situation. He raced for 8 years...although he started out in the tux world of racing and ended up in the blue collar world at Penn National. He was dumped in layup after he won his last race and the owner/trainer walked away. But for luck...he would have been on a truck.

    He was the horse of a lifetime. Enjoy your Diamond.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  11. #111
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    Dee, 16 days.. that's a long time. I know of one former eventer who was picked up on Sunday and at Olex on Tuesday. She was bought by a dealer who takes horses to a rescue (NYNE as well) for first choice, but a friend took her before she got on the truck... they since found out WHO the culprit was, all her aliases, and her picture and her bf's were plastered over FB. The OPP got involved (fraud) and the farm and rescue people went down to have a little talk. They had done the same thing a week later at Carson's.... Some horses ARE lucky.. Bully would have been too if for one extra hungry kb. That Lalonde guy... because, let's face it, even "meat only" horses do not necessarily go for meat...
    Recently one such horse was saved because something did not get filled out on the form!!!

    And Dee, glad to see Barbie is still helping at Olex!
    So, can I be a member?



  12. #112
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    Here's a bit more about what happened to BSB, I quoted from FB and removed names.

    "Many of you have read the article on the front page of the Toronto Star about Backstreet Bully. He HAS had the last word and although it will never bring him back, he represents a drop in the bucket of the many horses that head to slaughter that clearly illustrate the massive flaws in the horse slaughter industry.
    I stood on that catwalk at OLEX that day asking J. L. to buy that horse. He refused - he claimed he was "meat only". I did not believe that so I asked again. He repeated the same thing. That designation was never made on that horse and that has been proven. He lied. He was quickly backed up by T. T. that runs NE and promotes the sale of his so called meat horses. She also heard him state that as she was standing there as well. She also claimed she saw it written on the EID or kill sheet as it is commonly known. It was not. She repeated it numerous times. I was not the only one that heard her make these claims. I did not believe a word of it. T. also knew that there was a very good chance that I could identify that horse and have his drug records produced clearly indicating he was not eligible for slaughter. She knew because I told her that point blank and then I asked her what she thought would happen should that be the case. She did nothing but stand behind her lie.
    Did both J. and T. know that racehorses are in general not eligible for slaughter due to the excessive drug use? Yes, they did but "they all do it" as in send them to slaughter regardless. There was ample opportunity to stop it. He could have been pulled off that truck in Ottawa along with the other horses she was intending to broker for him on NE. If things went true to form, he would have off loaded along with all the others and then re-loaded to head to the plant. It could have been stopped - easily. It was not. He was "just a horse" and the thoroughbred people that love and admire these horses and fight for them so much are "just a joke". I kept trying. My calls and messages to both of them were ignored - she was "too busy".

    Backstreet Bully never won the Queen's Plate or the Kentucky Derby, nor did he make millions of dollars on the track, in fact only a few thousand but it did not matter to those of us that fought to save his life up until the very end. He was NOT "just a horse" in our eyes and he is only one of many. To add further insult to injury, we asked to have his halter returned - the leather halter with the brass nameplate on it reading Backstreet Bully and that simple request has never been honoured"
    Last edited by up-at-5; Apr. 2, 2013 at 06:51 AM. Reason: make paragraphs
    "My doctrine is this, that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt.”
    ― Anna Sewell


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #113
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    "prolific warmblood producers"

    I did not think there were any prolific warmblood breeders in NA.



  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeThbd View Post
    The worst is when someone gives away a horse to a supposed "good home", and 16 days later that horse is sold to a kill buyer through OLEX in St. Jacobs. Diamond is one of the rare, lucky ones thanks to one good judge of horses and a group of people who cared - as well as LongRun (a thoroughbred retirement society)....he would have been slaughtered on Tuesday, they day he was shipped back to OLEX where we picked him up.
    That horse is currently finishing his breakfast in a QT pasture, and will be coming home to join my other OTTB geldings in three weeks.
    So far.... http://wilddiamondintherough.blogspot.ca/
    I've started a blog on him, and am probably going to do a thread on him soon!
    Will look forward to that thread.

    Similar to several of my stories, Rowdy one, that barely squeaked by, was already in the trailer and on his way, when I asked he be unloaded and let me try him.

    It is a shame that, whatever way it happened, the horse in this thread is now dead.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #115
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    Public thumbs up Bluey.

    Comrade False Impression, I don't think we have a membership chairman...the more the merrier!
    Last edited by LauraKY; Apr. 1, 2013 at 01:53 PM.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  16. #116
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    I want in, Laura! I am against slaughtering horses for consumption period! Whether there is abuse or not -- which is pretty much *BS* -- those situations invite it -- Why do you think there are now laws passes in several states that make it a criminal offense to covertly film animals on pig, cow, and chicken farms, etc. as well as through feedlots, sales and the slaughter houses?? BECAUSE they don't want the public to know how bad it really is! Yeah, I guess that makes me some kind of nutcase. Uh huh. Cruelty to any living being is just wrong. Yes, I eat meat. Maybe I should go vegan. Wouldn't really be that difficult. I AM an animal activist and work daily trying to help various rescues, mostly dogs/cats. But I also work with any group that is trying to make the world better and safer for domestic and wild animals. I guess there aren't poachers either that are decimating many endangered species. Or killing wolves by helicopter or poisoning their cubs is ok? Let's just wipe out all the predator animals and really muck up the environment and natural food chain so there can be extended hunting for the special interest groups. Ah, but I ramble! No, horses are NOT meat animals and should never be considered as such regardless. No, I don't have the answers -- do any of you pro-killers have the answer for our national budget debacle? Does it stop you from spending? REALLY! So if there is no better answer -- we just send them to slaughter? Does that apply to third world countries that are starving? Yeah, right! It's not something that you can be proud of, smug about or rationalize -- it's just plain damned wrong! Many of those slaughtered are hustled through the process without being given a chance to get a decent home. For that reason alone it's crap! Label me whatever you wish -- I'm proud to give a damn and know it's wrong and defend them since they have no other defense. Maybe we should unload the nursing homes at the slaughter house too. Ridiculous? Of course! But they don't have much "use" and are expensive to keep. Really. JMHO! When YOU have the answer to the rest of the issues feel free to call us (those who are anti-slaughter) out on an answer to the unwanted horses. They aren't food or trash!
    PennyG



  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by up-at-5 View Post
    Here's a bit more about what happened to BSB, I quoted from FB and removed names.
    "Many of you have read the article on the front page of the Toronto Star about Backstreet Bully. He HAS had the last word and although it will never bring him back, he represents a drop in the bucket of the many horses that head to slaughter that clearly illustrate the massive flaws in the horse slaughter industry.
    I stood on that catwalk at OLEX that day asking J. L. to buy that horse. He refused - he claimed he was "meat only". I did not believe that so I asked again. He repeated the same thing. That designation was never made on that horse and that has been proven. He lied. He was quickly backed up by T. T. that runs NE and promotes the sale of his so called meat horses. She also heard him state that as she was standing there as well. She also claimed she saw it written on the EID or kill sheet as it is commonly known. It was not. She repeated it numerous times. I was not the only one that heard her make these claims. I did not believe a word of it. T. also knew that there was a very good chance that I could identify that horse and have his drug records produced clearly indicating he was not eligible for slaughter. She knew because I told her that point blank and then I asked her what she thought would happen should that be the case. She did nothing but stand behind her lie.
    Did both J. and T. know that racehorses are in general not eligible for slaughter due to the excessive drug use? Yes, they did but "they all do it" as in send them to slaughter regardless. There was ample opportunity to stop it. He could have been pulled off that truck in Ottawa along with the other horses she was intending to broker for him on NE. If things went true to form, he would have off loaded along with all the others and then re-loaded to head to the plant. It could have been stopped - easily. It was not. He was "just a horse" and the thoroughbred people that love and admire these horses and fight for them so much are "just a joke". I kept trying. My calls and messages to both of them were ignored - she was "too busy".

    Backstreet Bully never won the Queen's Plate or the Kentucky Derby, nor did he make millions of dollars on the track, in fact only a few thousand but it did not matter to those of us that fought to save his life up until the very end. He was NOT "just a horse" in our eyes and he is only one of many. To add further insult to injury, we asked to have his halter returned - the leather halter with the brass nameplate on it reading Backstreet Bully and that simple request has never been honoured"
    If you really want a good read, go to Transitions Thoroughbreds facebook page, and see the whole story that this ^ post is based on. Sad, and disturbing!



  18. #118
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    Welcome Comrade PennyG (TKR).
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKR View Post
    No, horses are NOT meat animals and should never be considered as such regardless. ...
    ... Maybe we should unload the nursing homes at the slaughter house too. Ridiculous? Of course! But they don't have much "use" and are expensive to keep. Really. JMHO! When YOU have the answer to the rest of the issues feel free to call us (those who are anti-slaughter) out on an answer to the unwanted horses. They aren't food or trash!
    PennyG
    It is not illegal to eat horsemeat in the USA, only to offer it for sale to others since necessary inspection is not funded. In nearly every horse owning society horsemeat has been eaten by humans and I am old enough to remember it being in supermarkets in the 1970's for a time in the USA - no, I never ate it.

    If you would choose to illegally sell your grandmother or give her away (as people legally buy and sell and give away horses) then I suppose your nursing home slaughter image would be valid.

    It is not.
    Humans do not become excess to society or their families due to age, infirmity, etc. You might google Steven Hawking, for example.

    Expensive, long-lived luxury hobby animals definitely often do. That is reality.


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  20. #120
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    For convenience, I multiquoted from up-at-5 's posting of ANOTHER unnamed person from facebook about what happened to BSB; this is not up-at-5's thoughts, merely how multiquote pick it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by up-at-5 View Post
    …I stood on that catwalk at OLEX that day asking J. L. to buy that horse. He refused - he claimed he was "meat only". I did not believe that so I asked again. He repeated the same thing. That designation was never made on that horse and that has been proven. He lied. He was quickly backed up by T. T. that runs NE and promotes the sale of his so called meat horses. She also heard him state that as she was standing there as well. She also claimed she saw it written on the EID or kill sheet as it is commonly known. It was not. She repeated it numerous times. I was not the only one that heard her make these claims…
    This is classic debating technique. The problem is the debate is the wrong platform as there should be no opponent in a negotiation; just two parties with different positions considering creating a compromise that must be valuable to both.
    Offering an opportunity to repeat an erroneous position sets it in granite and stiffens up the defense of that position. It is also a perfect fail when trying to shift someone off their position.

    Quote Originally Posted by up-at-5 View Post
    …T. also knew that there was a very good chance that I could identify that horse and have his drug records produced clearly indicating he was not eligible for slaughter. She knew because I told her that point blank and then I asked her what she thought would happen should that be the case. …
    Direct threat with a time window before any action will occur?
    Not making any easy way out for the ‘seller’ to go along with you, are you? And providing real incentive to slaughter the horse ASAP!
    Very counterproductive to what you desire. And if you have a ‘gun’ don’t brandish it or threaten with it, wait until necessary and then shoot effectively.
    “What she thought would happen…” Yikes! Put the other party in a negative mindset, with you as the attacking agent, why don’t you?
    That will not further getting the horse out.

    Quote Originally Posted by up-at-5 View Post
    …There was ample opportunity to stop it. He could have been pulled off that truck in Ottawa along with the other horses she was intending to broker for him on NE. If things went true to form, he would have off loaded along with all the others and then re-loaded to head to the plant. It could have been stopped - easily. …
    Ample opportunity for whom to stop it? The ones wanting to stop it blighted their opportunity.
    It seems the advocates jimmied up the works with every word out of their mouths.

    Quote Originally Posted by up-at-5 View Post
    … I kept trying. My calls and messages to both of them were ignored - she was "too busy"….
    If all you had was words -and you had effectively closed her ears to you- then you needed to go up the power chain to someone she must appease with real proof of drugs onboard, no 6 month timeframe, etc.
    Why would she listen to someone who is being nothing but confrontational and threatening to put her at risk, yet has no genuine power to stop her or doesn’t know the channels to use it?
    At this point your bridges are burned and you need the boat to get to the other side, yet you don’t have one ready.

    Quote Originally Posted by up-at-5 View Post
    … To add further insult to injury, we asked to have his halter returned - the leather halter with the brass nameplate on it reading Backstreet Bully and that simple request has never been honoured .
    Because it was your halter? I don’t believe it was - it was on a sold horse.
    What right do you have to any property of theirs, whether you have a sentimental interest in it or not?
    Last edited by D_BaldStockings; Apr. 2, 2013 at 03:35 PM.


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