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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by quietann View Post
    Total side point here, but one of the most common rat poisons is an anti-coagulant taken by many humans (Warfarin or Coumadin -- same thing, different modes of administration.) And the risks are known -- you bleed more if you get hurt, you have a greater chance of having an aneurysm, etc.

    (My mom started taking Coumadin after having a pulmonary embolism -- a blood clot in the lungs -- for which she was given IV Warfarin while in hospital. Less than a year later, she had a brain aneurysm which was almost certainly related to the Coumadin, and she died.)
    I may be mistaken but I think it was used in people first and then in larger per # dosages as a rat poison?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warfarin

    Nope it was rats first then people.
    You are correct.

    My point, however, was that there are many substances that we know are harmful in people without conducting studies to determine they are.



  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by quietann View Post
    And, hm, Bluey has yet to address my question, which is the same one asked by several others here. Too busy trying to "win" I guess...
    No, just tired of not responding, that was not going anywhere with all the ganging up comments.
    Decided to try to respond more and see what may happen.

    The way I see it, I wonder if those trying to silence me realize that, without some of us questioning the ones for the slaughter ban, there would not be any debate, just a few post from the usual suspects and the threads would die?

    Where will they go find their fun next, you think?

    Talking about wining, too bad no one seems interested any more on the horse in this story, just that their side win?
    Don't know what a win may represent to them, the most posts, maybe?



  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    No, just tired of not responding, that was not going anywhere with all the ganging up comments.
    Decided to try to respond more and see what may happen.

    The way I see it, I wonder if those trying to silence me realize that, without some of us questioning the ones for the slaughter ban, there would not be any debate, just a few post from the usual suspects and the threads would die?

    Where will they go find their fun next, you think?

    Talking about wining, too bad no one seems interested any more on the horse in this story, just that their side win?
    Don't know what a win may represent to them, the most posts, maybe?
    No one is trying to silence you. The goal is that you stop calling people RARA's, HSUS & Peta memebers, etc. As you are incorrect in saying the folks on here are affiliated with these groups.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by up-at-5 View Post
    D_Baldstalkings, Sorry, I guess you didn't read the first line of the post in question. It was a quote from a FB page, I wasn't there.
    I hope I fixed that implication that those were your statements. I did know and read that you were not the originator, sorry if I confused others by my multi-quoting.

    If what I edited is not enough, let me know.
    Last edited by D_BaldStockings; Apr. 2, 2013 at 04:55 PM.



  5. #225
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  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post

    Seems Canada is flirting with a Chinese disaster.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
    At least some more information, if from the same initial questionable source with a certain agenda.

    So the horse was tested, they don't say if before or after being killed and was found clean, whatever then they did with him.

    I wonder why, in all their anti slaughter rhetoric, they don't mention the real story here again, that some sold him and then claimed they had tried to buy him back and why that was not possible?

    We still don't know and that, I thought, would be what the article was about.
    Maybe the next one?



  8. #228

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Why didn't your dad just have him put down, either by bullet or vet?
    I have no idea, other than no place to shoot him or bury him.



  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    At least some more information, if from the same initial questionable source with a certain agenda.

    So the horse was tested, they don't say if before or after being killed and was found clean, whatever then they did with him.

    I wonder why, in all their anti slaughter rhetoric, they don't mention the real story here again, that some sold him and then claimed they had tried to buy him back and why that was not possible?

    We still don't know and that, I thought, would be what the article was about.
    Maybe the next one?
    Did you contact them with your questions/comments?
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    At least some more information, if from the same initial questionable source with a certain agenda.

    So the horse was tested, they don't say if before or after being killed and was found clean, whatever then they did with him.

    I wonder why, in all their anti slaughter rhetoric, they don't mention the real story here again, that some sold him and then claimed they had tried to buy him back and why that was not possible?

    We still don't know and that, I thought, would be what the article was about.
    Maybe the next one?
    I can play this game too Bluey. So the slaughter house said they tested him and found him clean. However, the racing barn knows his previous history and knows that's impossible. So who is slanting the evidence now?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    9 members found this post helpful.

  11. #231
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    one more use of the natural, renewable resource

    in Business definition, a natural resource is not manufactured or artificially modified. While horses are a bred-by-man mammal, they are considered natural in that they reproduce, grow live and die quite successfully if humans fail to intervene.

    Renewable means the supply may be rebuilt/restocked. You can breed more horses if you deplete the number existing at present, just as you can plant and grow more trees, wheat, corn. Non-renewable would be things like Oil, Gold.

    Resource means something available to be used given the ingenuity of mankind.
    We use sun, oil, corn, wheat, and we use horses.

    What is in dispute is the use of a horse as an edible. And not that they CAN (as uncontaminated horsemeat is not poisonous to humans) but whether one SHOULD.

    I am stepping back from replying to this aspect of the thread because I think it is a personal decision, not one I should influence or choose for others.
    Last edited by D_BaldStockings; Apr. 2, 2013 at 10:27 PM.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_BaldStockings View Post
    I hope I fixed that implication that those were your statements. I did know and read that you were not the originator, sorry if I confused others by my muti-quoting.

    If what I edited is not enough, let me know.
    No problem, I too, went back and edited so the first line is set apart from the rest.

    Hey Quietann, nice to see you posting here on this thread. Remember me from Florida, sitting by the pool

    Bluey, I don't think anyone is trying to "silence" you (although it would be nice if you'd give it a rest once in awhile). I'll donate 10 dollars to the horse charity of your choice, if you go a whole week without using the words or phrases HSUS, activist, RARA, fail to understand, final use, slaughter, and banning driving because of a drunk. Oh, and no smiley faces either!
    What say?

    Oh, and the horse was slaughtered, did you not bother to read the article that was posted here, or even check out the link?
    Last edited by up-at-5; Apr. 2, 2013 at 05:06 PM. Reason: adding in "no smiley faces"
    "My doctrine is this, that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt.”
    ― Anna Sewell


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    I may be mistaken but I think it was used in people first and then in larger per # dosages as a rat poison?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warfarin

    Nope it was rats first then people.
    You are correct.

    My point, however, was that there are many substances that we know are harmful in people without conducting studies to {determine they are.
    Really?
    Usually 'we know' because at some point in the past a person or persons was unfortunate enough to use a harmful susbstance and suffer the ensuing damage. Might not be a Study, per se, but at least some data.

    Perhaps I am getting the wrong meaning from your post... I took it to mean stuff used in animals that we 'haven't' tested in humans and the hearsay is negative but un backed up. So not aggreeing with the 'WE KNOW" part.
    Last edited by D_BaldStockings; Apr. 2, 2013 at 10:30 PM.



  14. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by quietann View Post
    And, hm, Bluey has yet to address my question, which is the same one asked by several others here. Too busy trying to "win" I guess...

    In my experience, you will never get an answer to that question. Several of my questions regarding this topic have also gone ignored. What Bluey excels in is deflecting and then creating a diversion, a roundabout way to never have to address a sensitive topic.

    Case in point:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    No, just tired of not responding, that was not going anywhere with all the ganging up comments.
    Decided to try to respond more and see what may happen.

    The way I see it, I wonder if those trying to silence me realize that, without some of us questioning the ones for the slaughter ban, there would not be any debate, just a few post from the usual suspects and the threads would die?

    Where will they go find their fun next, you think?

    Talking about wining, too bad no one seems interested any more on the horse in this story, just that their side win?
    Don't know what a win may represent to them, the most posts, maybe?
    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
    While an editorial piece, it does bring up some important points.

    When a trainer learned of Backstreet Bully’s fate and pleaded with the abattoir not to sell him as meat, the company said it had him tested and found no “bute,” which is only banned within six months of slaughter. No one will say if Backstreet Bully was sold for meat.

    As Dr. Martin Appelt of the food inspection agency says, the passport system is based on honour. But principles are often the first to be sacrificed when there’s money to be made.

    One would think that if the meat from BSB was not sold for human consumption, the officials involved would make that very clear. They are already under scrutiny for accepting a horse with a falsified passport. Why they won't come out and say the meat was not sold for consumption speaks volumes. Good PR would be for them to say they were extra careful and withheld the meat from being prepared for human consumption.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_BaldStockings View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    I may be mistaken but I think it was used in people first and then in larger per # dosages as a rat poison?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warfarin

    Nope it was rats first then people.
    You are correct.

    My point, however, was that there are many substances that we know are harmful in people without conducting studies to determine they are.
    Really?
    Usually 'we know' because at some point in the past a person or persons was unfortunate enough to use a harmful susbstance and suffer the ensuing damage. Might not be a Study, per se, but at least some data.

    Perhaps I am getting the wrong meaning from your post... I took it to mean stuff used in animals that we 'haven't' tested in humans and the hearsay is negative but un backed up. So not aggreeing with the 'WE KNOW" part.
    An actual study is different from anecdotal 'used in these patients with these results' which doesn't incl placebo and other measures to rule out what could happen even without the substance [being studied] presence in the subjects.
    That's what I am saying.
    Lala and Bluey and Fairfax keep suggesting that Bute is a non-issue for people because there are no studies saying it is an issue.
    And because horses take it without getting cancer.

    I am saying that we know it's an issue even without proper studies because we did use it in people, saw ill effects, and other better, safer treatments came along. And that this harm to patients who used it also explains why there are not and will not be any true studies.
    I've said, repeatedly, that doing a study to prove something is harmful is hard to do, in part thanks to the challenge of getting subjects to sign up for a harm study. I guess we would have 3 eager subjects were we to conduct such a study- Lala, Fairfax and Bluey who are certain it's not harmful and A-ok to feed to humans, but I think more would be a challenge to find.

    It's also hard to get funding for a study like this too.
    Heck if the slaughter plants/pro-slaughter side want to prove it's not a big deal, since they are the ones who would profit from the results... they should go for it and fund a study!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post

    While an editorial piece, it does bring up some important points.

    When a trainer learned of Backstreet Bully’s fate and pleaded with the abattoir not to sell him as meat, the company said it had him tested and found no “bute,” which is only banned within six months of slaughter. No one will say if Backstreet Bully was sold for meat.
    Can someone explain to me why the slaughter plants [who is the speaker of the above quote in the article, I assume] and several pro-slaughterers here on COTH keep insisting that there's only a 6 month ban on bute, when everything I've found says it's a drug that is never to be used in animals for human consumption?

    I also wish they would stop using the term 'passport' when they mean the IED.
    It is my understanding that a true passport, like the ones European horses have, are signed by the Vet administering or Rx'ing the med. [and someone who has actually seen w/their own eyes the passports European horses have for slaughter correct me if I am wrong on that]
    IEDs do not have that.
    Last edited by Angela Freda; Apr. 2, 2013 at 05:48 PM. Reason: spelling



  17. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_BaldStockings View Post
    one more use of the natural, renewable resource

    in Business definition, a natural resource is not manufactured or artificially modified. While horses are a bred-by-man mammal, they are considered natural in that they reproduce, grow live and die quite successfully if humans fail to intervene.

    Renewable means the supply may be rebuilt/restocked. You can breed more horses if you deplete the number existing at present, just as you can plant and grow more trees, wheat, corn. Non-renewable would be things like Oil, Gold.

    Resource means something available to be used given the ingenuity of mankind.
    We use sun, oil, corn, wheat, and we use horses.

    What is in dispute is the use of a horse as an edible. And not that they CAN (as uncontaminated horsemeat is not poinsonous to humans) but whether one SHOULD.

    I am stepping back from replying to this aspect of the thread because I think it is a personal decision, not one I should influence or choose for others.
    don't spoil the party with facts now!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
    Just as an aside, it's annoying that they refer to nitrofurazone and bute as "performance enhancing." It would actually strengthen the article to point out that most riding horses are treated with various preparations to address injury or illness that are not permitted for food animals, that it's not just about performance-enhancing drugs of questionable ethical value.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    don't spoil the party with facts now!
    You see that is the kind of smart alec comment people are tired of, It is not constructive. Why do you post on these threads anyway Alagirl?
    I never knew that you were not a horse person until someone brought it up, then over the years I realized you never have spoken of your own horses or riding. Do you just enjoy riling people up? Because it sure would appear that way, I do not see you adding anything constructive to the conversation.
    Sorry if you find that offensive, but I find your repeated little zings to be really not helping things at all. I am sure you will turn that around to mean you are being attacked, when we know that the Trio are the only ones being attacked. Like I said before there seems to be little you or Bluey are doing for slaughter or against, But maybe you both could really care less how horses are slaughtered, but really enjoying stirring the pot.
    Just the way it appears.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    You see that is the kind of smart alec comment people are tired of, It is not constructive. Why do you post on these threads anyway Alagirl?
    I never knew that you were not a horse person until someone brought it up, then over the years I realized you never have spoken of your own horses or riding. Do you just enjoy riling people up? Because it sure would appear that way, I do not see you adding anything constructive to the conversation.
    Sorry if you find that offensive, but I find your repeated little zings to be really not helping things at all. I am sure you will turn that around to mean you are being attacked, when we know that the Trio are the only ones being attacked. Like I said before there seems to be little you or Bluey are doing for slaughter or against, But maybe you both could really care less how horses are slaughtered, but really enjoying stirring the pot.
    Just the way it appears.
    Honey, I have been called all kinds of things in the last 6 or 7 years.

    It wears thin. And yes, it was always with the implication that since I do not support the ban I could possibly not care for animals.
    yes, plenty of personal digs.

    and oh my, guess what?

    Every time. every.single.time. certain people are called out on their lack of a) knowledge; b) lack of facts; c) outright...well, can't say it here or I'll be accused of name calling, wouldn't want that now...utter nonsense they switch the subject, divert attention, throw in a few personal digs that are very thinly veiled personal attacks and we rinse. lather, repeat until we reach the same strawman 'argument' again.

    Now, it is a moon thing.
    we used to have one of these themed amusements every single month, one week before Full Moon. Yes, we had them long enough and often enough that I actually bothered to keep track of it.

    The next thing I am expecting to be brought up - again - would be the fact that I do not own a horse. Which LauraKY has beaten like the proverbial dead horse for a good while now. Care to comment on that?

    Fact is the argument against slaughter is less sturdy than a house of cards.
    Every single time the pebbles are pulled from the foundation it's reduced to rhetoric (from PETA and HSUS) and emotions.

    Emotions are fine. But the way you feel has little or no bearing on how I conduct business.
    Pretty simply put: if it does not affect you stay out of it.


    On the other hand the anti slaughter/pro ban demands do affect the whole of the industry. And not in a positive way.

    Bluey and myself have pointed that out, before the plants closed down.
    If it would not be such a sad state of affairs it would be fun to say 'we told you so', and that was well before the economy collapsed.

    Oh, right: Bluey was called a liar for saying that horses got turned lose to fend for themselves. Did not happen.
    Well, it did, it does.
    She got called a liar for telling people how the closure of the plants affected the market where she lives.
    nah, didn't happen. because the handful of ladies who live where the pastures are always green (or in an apartment above the garage in mid town for all I know) don't see it in their MLP world.

    Never let some facts get in a way of a good cause, right!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.


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