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  1. #161
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    I don't object to you stating that you know what horse slaughter is. And I haven't told you what you should or should not post.

    Why do you think everyone who objects to inhumane treatment is really relaying secret messages from PETA, HSUS, RARA's, etc?


    8 members found this post helpful.

  2. #162
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    Thank you - your words are not wasted............on some.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    Oh Lord help me, it is like a bad car accident, I just cannot look away.
    Bluey has no sources, just repeatedly saying over and over, that is what I was told by someone I knew who worked in a slaughter house.
    PEople have made good sense, and you all shoot them down,
    I cannot believe you are so obtuse as to not see that she claims the same thing over and over for years, has no proof, only says, Thank you, and adds a winking smiley. Let's face it, you folks are right, and all of us, who are not totally against humane slaughter are totally off base and you can do nothing but shut us out. Truth. It is really old, pointless and tiresome. and it is sure not helping horses one bit. I know these words are wasted.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Why do you object to me stating that I know what horse slaughter is, a process to use the one more renewable, natural resource horses have always been and still are for us thru that process?
    If you don't agree, explain why, don't go on telling me what I should post or not post.
    As I have politely pointed out in the past, horses ARE NOT a renewable resource.

    renewable resources
    Web definitions


    (renewable resource) any natural resource (as wood or solar energy) that can be replenished naturally with the passage of time.
    wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

    Nothing about a dead horse can be replenished naturally with the passage of time. Really.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
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  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    As I have politely pointed out in the past, horses ARE NOT a renewable resource.

    renewable resources
    Web definitions


    (renewable resource) any natural resource (as wood or solar energy) that can be replenished naturally with the passage of time.
    wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

    Nothing about a dead horse can be replenished naturally with the passage of time. Really.
    Wrong, horses are a natural, renewable resource, but it is ok to disagree.

    Now, does anyone know any more about this story, if the plant did get notice someone wanted that horse in time, or not?



  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Wrong, horses are a natural, renewable resource, but it is ok to disagree.

    Now, does anyone know any more about this story, if the plant did get notice someone wanted that horse in time, or not?
    Wild horses can be considered a natural resource because they come from and are created in the environment.

    Based on the definition of renewable resource, horses are NOT a renewable resource. I'm posting the definition as well as the source, yet you continue to think I'm wrong about this.

    Why is it so difficult for you to admit something you wrote is not true?

    Just in case you don't believe me:

    Main Entry: renewable resource
    Part of Speech: n
    Definition: any natural resource that can replenish itself naturally over time, as wood or solar energy; also called renewable energy, [ renewable energy resource ], renewable natural resource


    renewable resources

    A resource that can be totally replaced or is always available naturally, or that is practically inexhaustible.


    Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/de...#ixzz2PJzVInzm

    Relating to a natural resource, such as solar energy, water, or wood, that is never used up or that can be replaced by new growth. Resources that are dependent on regrowth can sometimes be depleted beyond the point of renewability, as when the deforestation of land leads to desertification or when a commercially valuable species is harvested to extinction. Pollution can also make a renewable resource such as water unusable in a particular location.

    http://science.yourdictionary.com/renewable

    Why is it so difficult for you to say I'm right?
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
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  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Wrong, horses are a natural, renewable resource, but it is ok to disagree.

    Now, does anyone know any more about this story, if the plant did get notice someone wanted that horse in time, or not?
    Technically she's right, depending on who is defining renewable natural resource. But then so are cats, dogs and humans. Yum, human stew anyone? With dog BBQ?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispatcher View Post
    I don't object to you stating that you know what horse slaughter is. And I haven't told you what you should or should not post.

    Why do you think everyone who objects to inhumane treatment is really relaying secret messages from PETA, HSUS, RARA's, etc?
    because they repeat their rhetoric.
    Is that simple enough?

    because they defend the rhetoric

    and see: just by your wording to imply that everybody NOT agreeing with these people are in fact for inhumane treatment of animals

    so, what is it going to be?

    Only the anti slaughter people are good people?

    Everybody who says something against them is a big fat meany?

    Maybe you in person have not - knowingly - told her to shut up. But it has been implied. By more than one person.

    And frankly, I do admire her for taking the time to repeat her argument (yes, I suggested to her she should cut and paste, saving time, but hey, she takes pride in her work) for every time we go on that merry-go-round.
    One 'argument' is dismantled the next strawman is pushed center stage. Dismantle that one, you get the next and so on and so forth.

    There is no 'growth' in this discussion because people do not understand the ground rule of discourse, let alone a civil one.
    And since the argument is one sided in terms of merit there are a lot of personal digs and personal attacks. And no, not from Bluey.

    I have served my time for name calling, although I never did call the woman a crack head, I did imply it, and I still think she was on something heavy!

    But go forth and pull up the polls I posted, read the comments. I find it eye opening how many people felt attacked by simply asking a couple of questions.
    Sure, it was a bit unfair of me to ask whether or not they suggested their horse professional should eat a loss on their behalf when I knew good and well how some of them thought, especially in terms of euthanasia and low end horses.
    But not a one was honest enough to say it out loud Yes, I want my vet to eat the 400 dollar cost of killing my horse because I am feeling bad about having to do it.
    Or that the mouth breathing dealer needs to die and rot for selling cheap horses....when at every turn they hope gleefully for just that event to happen.


    Also: Good god, most of the anti slaughter advocates have absolutely no idea how commerce and economy works. nada, zilch, nothing.
    Shines through every posy, line, word of their posts.
    If/when they get their way of legislating everything to their liking we all going to be screwed!
    Big time.

    But hey, it's just that German, horse eating, puppy kickin' ogre talking. don't take my word for it.....

    As to the civility of your poor comrade folk: As I said, the questions I asked were rather benign, answering optional,no proof required in any case....but name calling and accusations were rampant....which told me, not surprisingly so, that a whole lot of people here on COTH who talk a good game have much less to show for their fervor in real life than they care to admit. Take two aspirin and call me in the morning. Or rather not.


    It is an exercise in futility, but certainly a necessity: You have to debunk myths and lies.
    But it can be a fringe benefit to watch'em squirm when they don't have the answer to the corner stone question of their argument:
    If Bute is so freaking bad, why do you give it to your horse 'just in case' or like some seem to do more like candy....

    Ah, good times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  8. #168
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    Alagirl, fine then, eat all the bute contaminated meat you want. It's banned from food animals by the FDA (along with some other drugs). What part of that do you not understand? It doesn't matter what you think. It's BANNED. It's not given to cattle because it's BANNED. It has no withdrawal time because it has a lifetime BAN.

    I don't think your polls showed anything close to what you think they did.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    8 members found this post helpful.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Technically she's right, depending on who is defining renewable natural resource. But then so are cats, dogs and humans. Yum, human stew anyone? With dog BBQ?
    Yes, technically horses are one more renewable, natural resource this world has evolved, for their proper uses, not all of those have to be to eat them.

    A tree is a renewable, natural resource and we also have it's proper uses for it and many of those are not eating them, although we can eat some of it also.

    Being wild, feral or domesticated doesn't really matter when it comes to being a renewable, natural resource by definition, all of those can still be renewable, natural resources we have evolved using in this world.

    So, that clear now, I hope, maybe we can get back to the situation with this horse's story?



  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    because they repeat their rhetoric.
    Is that simple enough?

    because they defend the rhetoric
    I have repeatedly and very carefully selected the sources I use, including USDA, actual documents from the EU and MHLW, and others.
    And yet, EVERY time I post something with a source, I am told I am simply repeating PETA/HSUS/AR agenda/propaganda, and have fallen for it...
    that is unless the information I offer is completely ignored [one can only presume because there is not logical, verifiable response that address the actual topic].


    8 members found this post helpful.

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Yes, technically horses are one more renewable, natural resource this world has evolved, for their proper uses, not all of those have to be to eat them.
    UNBELIEVABLE. I continue to point out the correct definition (and provide the sources of said definition) of renewable resource which does NOT apply to horses, yet you continue to insist horses are a renewable resource.

    I just don't get it. <head desk>
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
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    7 members found this post helpful.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    because they repeat their rhetoric.
    Is that simple enough?
    because they defend the rhetoric
    and see: just by your wording to imply that everybody NOT agreeing with these people are in fact for inhumane treatment of animals
    so, what is it going to be?
    Only the anti slaughter people are good people?
    Everybody who says something against them is a big fat meany?
    Maybe you in person have not - knowingly - told her to shut up. But it has been implied. By more than one person..
    The rhetoric of someone believing that cruelty to animals is a bad thing? What's wrong with that? That does not make someone a RARA or even an ARA.

    I make no judgement on whether an anti or a pro is a good person or not. But the inability for some to see that most people here are not ARA's or RARA's is odd.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  13. #173
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    ROFL - drinks anyone??? Popcorn??? Peanuts???

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    I have repeatedly and very carefully selected the sources I use, including USDA, actual documents from the EU and MHLW, and others.
    And yet, EVERY time I post something with a source, I am told I am simply repeating PETA/HSUS/AR agenda/propaganda, and have fallen for it...
    that is unless the information I offer is completely ignored [one can only presume because there is not logical, verifiable response that address the actual topic].



  14. #174
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    What Bluey is missing on her natural renewable resource rhetoric is that, in this country, for the most part, horse is not considered food. If they are to be considered food, then they should be raised as food animals and not treated with drugs that are banned by the FDA. End of story.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    What Bluey is missing on her natural renewable resource rhetoric is that, in this country, for the most part, horse is not considered food. If they are to be considered food, then they should be raised as food animals and not treated with drugs that are banned by the FDA. End of story.
    Yes, another straw man argument.

    Considering that gaspeth, the meat was by in large exported. To countries were horse meat is food, like any other meat.

    Along with the misunderstanding on what 'renewable' means.

    Yes, I got a few laughs out of that one. Still laughing.

    And oh, right: the FDA labels suggesting use o non use of a drug in certain species....oh my goodness, how many times to repeat this:
    when the same active ingredient is used in a beef cow, it stands to reason that other factors play into the label, mainly money as the tests are rather costly.

    It is much easier to exclude use on the label than to run a gamut of tests.

    But again, we have covered that.

    That and a bunch of other arguments.

    talk about growth....

    Yes, a horse is a renewable natural resource.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Alagirl, fine then, eat all the bute contaminated meat you want. It's banned from food animals by the FDA (along with some other drugs). What part of that do you not understand? It doesn't matter what you think. It's BANNED. It's not given to cattle because it's BANNED. It has no withdrawal time because it has a lifetime BAN.

    I don't think your polls showed anything close to what you think they did.
    Yes, I've asked the same thing...

    It's all well and good for Fairfax, Bluey and Lala to insist that Bute is no big deal... and that consuming meat from animals exposed to the other drugs on the 'not to be used in animals for human consumption list' that the EU instituted is not going to hurt you... and to want to see studies that show it causes harm to humans to PROVE that they should not have those medications administered...

    ... but the bottom line is that a major buyer, the EU, Japan and others, say they do not want ANY meat from animals administered these drugs... and the best we can do is offer them a 6 month clearing on a feedlot [that does not clear most or any of these drugs] or the 'oh so easily faked' EID?
    And we think everything is hunky-dory with that 'plan' and want to open more plants to slaughter more horses who've in most cases had these drugs to sell to those people who've made it quite clear they do not want meat from animals who've been administered these drugs....

    ... but you insist PETA/HSUS/RaRas are the unreasonable, delusional ones?

    Instead of insisting we should just ignore what the agencies who oversee the import of these products do/do not want that product to have in it and ship them tainted crap meat... why don't all of you who think Bute and the other meds are no biggie lobby the government agencies [FDA/USDA, EU, MHLW, etc] to remove their regulations on those drugs instead?
    Why doesn't the pro-drugs in meat folks ask the agencies why they think, without any studies to prove it's so, that these drugs are such a bad idea to allow into the human food chain?
    That would be an interesting, pro-active activity for the pro side to partake in. I would be interested in the outcome of that little exercise.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
    Dee, 16 days.. that's a long time. I know of one former eventer who was picked up on Sunday and at Olex on Tuesday. She was bought by a dealer who takes horses to a rescue (NYNE as well) for first choice, but a friend took her before she got on the truck... they since found out WHO the culprit was, all her aliases, and her picture and her bf's were plastered over FB. The OPP got involved (fraud) and the farm and rescue people went down to have a little talk. They had done the same thing a week later at Carson's.... Some horses ARE lucky.. Bully would have been too if for one extra hungry kb. That Lalonde guy... because, let's face it, even "meat only" horses do not necessarily go for meat...
    Recently one such horse was saved because something did not get filled out on the form!!!

    And Dee, glad to see Barbie is still helping at Olex!
    So, can I be a member?
    Barbie ROCKS....if it hadn't been for her, there would not be a Diamond today.
    We figure that he waited that long to either get a couple of horses together or to wait till everyone was convinced the horse had a good home...he told his daughter that "he gave him to somebody to keep their old horse company". One friend who has known him says he has been shippng horses for over 30 years. He brought at least one more horse in while we were at OLEX to pick Diamond up.
    That filly whose paperwork was improperly filled out was there on the day I picked up Diamond at OLEX...sweet thing, quite pretty, and was lean but not thin. Other than her, only three horses (not counting the two minis) were not sold to slaughter in the time that we were there.
    And if you mean be a member of my blog -absolutely!
    Founder of the I LOFF my worrywart TB clique!
    Official member of the "I Sing Silly Songs to My Animals!" Clique
    http://wilddiamondintherough.blogspot.ca/



  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    ROFL - drinks anyone??? Popcorn??? Peanuts???
    I guess I'm missing what is so funny about what I posted?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    What Bluey is missing on her natural renewable resource rhetoric is that, in this country, for the most part, horse is not considered food. If they are to be considered food, then they should be raised as food animals and not treated with drugs that are banned by the FDA. End of story.
    Now, that is mixing the topics so nothing makes sense?

    A natural, renewable resource is one that you don't have to use artificial means to produce, although you may do so.
    Horses, just because we don't have them for sale as a steak in the grocery stores in the USA that making them now not a natural, renewable resource?

    Doesn't make sense because a natural, renewable resources are those that are natural, as horses are and renewable as such, as horses are.
    We don't manufacture them in a plant, as we do the pot you may cook your food on.
    That pot may not be a natural, renewable resource, but what you put in it, your vegetables and any animal protein, horses included, are natural, renewable resources.
    That the pot is in an USA household or somewhere else doesn't change that.

    Hope that explain the difference.



  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispatcher View Post
    The rhetoric of someone believing that cruelty to animals is a bad thing? What's wrong with that? That does not make someone a RARA or even an ARA.

    I make no judgement on whether an anti or a pro is a good person or not. But the inability for some to see that most people here are not ARA's or RARA's is odd.
    Amen to that!!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


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