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  1. #21
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    There's a children's author who's name suddenly evades me who was convicted of smuggling cocaine as a young adult... like briging shipments of the stuff into the U.S. from Central/South America. I find the whole thing kind of funny. His books are excellent.


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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilitiger2 View Post
    That takes a particular personality type that involves complete disregard for the welfare of others.It is not responsive to "reform" although certainly there are people with these traits that are not necessariy in prison, are law abiding and so forth. But they still hold at their core, that same disregard.
    Apparently the author in question has been responsive enough to "reform" (not sure why you put that in quotes but whatever) that she has been able to integrate herself back into society after serving her time and has remained a law-abiding citizen for 59 years, so I would say that she does not in fact hold a lasting disregard for the welfare of others (or at least not in a way that breaks the law, which makes her since her release from prison pretty much just like those of us who haven't ever murdered anyone).

    I'm genuinely curious - what do you think should be the punishment for someone like the author in question?


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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilitiger2 View Post
    "reform"because people have all sorts of expectations about the potential for real change. And with this personality that really does not happen. For those who plan and execute someone, frankly forfitting the right to BE in society,living the good life, is not really inappropriate. Our system is not set up for that, but we are not talking about a "mistake" or "accident" or mental health issue or something. And five years is a little light.

    And to be very clear, someone who has executed someone else in NO WAY is "just like those of us who have not murdered anyone", where they are in an institution or not.
    I have no idea what you are trying to say with that first paragraph, so I can't respond to any of it.

    And you did not read my post in the way that I wrote it, because I did not say that the author was just like those of us who have not murdered anyone. I wrote that she has apparently lived her life since her release from prison in a way that resembles that of those of us who have not murdered anyone (in other words, she has not murdered anyone since she was released from prison 59 years ago).


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  4. #24
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    Just to be clear we are not talking about 'our' justice system we are talking about New Zealand's justice system sixty years ago. Sixty years ago is like another world to most of us.
    And, to be pedantic, there were many, many discussions about the possibility of mental illness prior to the murder being committed. Although, many of them centered on the suspicion that the girls were lesbians which at that time WAS considered a mental illness. Five years is a very light sentence but they were juveniles. Unlike other justice systems, this wasn't sealed unavailable information. Which is why we know about it now!
    They weren't given five years as a punishment btw it was Judge's discretion, so they could have stayed there plenty for years. For what it's worth it appears the Judge got it right. They haven't reoffended, they still keep to the terms of their release conditions and have been in gainful employment. They can't undo what they did, so what more do you want? Please don't say the Death Penalty... NZ has only given the Death Penalty to one woman, and that was in 1895, it was very, very unlikely to have been used in this instance.

    Anne Perry's first job was as an air hostess. I have more reservations about that, because of her mental instability, than her employment as an author.


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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamwalker View Post
    Just to be clear we are not talking about 'our' justice system we are talking about New Zealand's justice system sixty years ago. Sixty years ago is like another world to most of us.
    And, to be pedantic, there were many, many discussions about the possibility of mental illness prior to the murder being committed. Although, many of them centered on the suspicion that the girls were lesbians which at that time WAS considered a mental illness. Five years is a very light sentence but they were juveniles. Unlike other justice systems, this wasn't sealed unavailable information. Which is why we know about it now!
    They weren't given five years as a punishment btw it was Judge's discretion, so they could have stayed there plenty for years. For what it's worth it appears the Judge got it right. They haven't reoffended, they still keep to the terms of their release conditions and have been in gainful employment. They can't undo what they did, so what more do you want? Please don't say the Death Penalty... NZ has only given the Death Penalty to one woman, and that was in 1895, it was very, very unlikely to have been used in this instance.

    Anne Perry's first job was as an air hostess. I have more reservations about that, because of her mental instability, than her employment as an author.
    I was using the term "our" with regards to the justice system in a global sense, as it really doesn't matter for my argument where in the world this happened.

    Please elaborate on the mental instability - I didn't read anything indicating this but as I said I didn't dig very deep at all.



  6. #26
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    Just because she hasn't murdered again (maybe she has!) doesn't mean that if the conditions were right that she wouldn't. Creatures such as herself and the other girl are like space aliens, people with hearts and a conscious don't kill for gain or profit.

    Too many excellent authors abound for me to waste my time on a murderer.
    "All top hat and no canter". *Graureiter*


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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestalt View Post
    Just because she hasn't murdered again (maybe she has!) doesn't mean that if the conditions were right that she wouldn't. Creatures such as herself and the other girl are like space aliens, people with hearts and a conscious don't kill for gain or profit.

    Too many excellent authors abound for me to waste my time on a murderer.
    The same could be said about anyone at any time (if the conditions were right). So according to your thoughts, we are all teetering on the edge of becoming murderers?

    Let's just execute us all (space aliens that we are), since each one of us is one condition away from becoming a murderer.



  8. #28
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    I'd only read more if I were still in the business of prosecuting criminals. I always wanted to know what is in the mind of a murderer. And why most of them have no remorse. But I wonder why the author was not sued to prevent her from profiting from the killing?

    You never know who might be sitting next to you. In Atlanta, a woman worked with a social services group, and came to some meetings that some of us attended. The newspaper later outted her as a woman who had killed her boyfriend's wife with a hatchet. A Texas jury had acquitted her of murder. She changed her name and moved to Atlanta. The cheating husband must have decided he might be next for the hatchet, so he left her after she murdered his wife.



  9. #29
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    I'd never heard of Anne Perry, so went off to Wikipedia and found this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker-Hulme_murder_case
    Yes, I know how to spell. I'm using freespeling!

    freespeling



  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    But I wonder why the author was not sued to prevent her from profiting from the killing?
    Again, she is NOT making a profit from the murder. She has not written about the murder, she has not done the morning show circuit talking about the murder, and she has not sold her story to the National Enquirer. She is earning a living as a writer.


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  11. #31
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    Lot of clueless people posting on this thread.
    Cliff notes version....
    In 1954 (that's almost 60 years ago), in a far off country called New Zealand, Juliet Hume (who now uses the nom de plum "Anne Perry), along with her best friend, murdered her best friend's murder.
    The were both convicted as minors and spent 5 years in prison.
    Upon release, Perry lived in the UK, and the US.
    In the 80's, when she was in her 40's, she became a published author, and has gone on to be a fairly succesfull author.
    Her books do not deal with the murder she committed as a 15 year old.
    In fact almost nobody knew she was the kid that committed that crime all those years ago until about six months after the movie Heavenly Creatures came out and somehow it surfaced. So she can hardly be accused of "cashing in" on her notoriety.

    She f$%ked up as 15yo. Spent time in jail. In the intervening 55 years she has been on her best behaviour. What more do you want you, you pound-of-fleshers?
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynl063w View Post
    The same could be said about anyone at any time .
    Actually, no. It is NOT the case that any of us are capable of planning and executing a murder. Actually only a very small population of people can and will do that (accidents/heat of passion/mental health, etc are a different story). That is what makes this different than "stupid teenager decisions". Some people are responsive to various rehabilitative programs but not this population. And to be free and enjoying life after doing that, while others who have NEVER and likely will never do anything remotely like that are languishing in our prison system, is...well...amazing. I don't what justice system was involved and obviously lesbianism is completely irrelevant

    The original question was would I read/buy the books by someone who had planned and carried out a brutal murder and the answer is definitely not.


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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilitiger2 View Post
    Well that is one way to put it. Generally, f'ing up is like - stealing, dropping out of school, getting a DUI, getting into bar fights, getting caught with your neighbor's girfriend or things of that ilk - but again, planning organizing and then actually killing someone is quite another thing, not usually in the category of "hey, I'm over it now so it's all good!"
    What do you want? What would make you happy? You want her dead? You want her still rotting in jail as a 75 year old, 60 years after the fact? What do you want?
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey the Marcher View Post
    What do you want? What would make you happy? You want her dead? You want her still rotting in jail as a 75 year old, 60 years after the fact? What do you want?
    Yes, please let us know what you find so appalling about a person who committed a terrible crime as a teenager 60 years ago, served the sentence handed her by the justice system in her country, has abided by the terms of her release, and is now earning an honest living.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linny View Post
    Those martingales were so taut, you could play Ode to Joy on them with a comb


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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey the Marcher View Post
    What do you want? What would make you happy? You want her dead? You want her still rotting in jail as a 75 year old, 60 years after the fact? What do you want?
    I don't know - she took a life. Why should she get to go on to have a happy one?

    Life in prison, or death. You take a life, you give up yours, one way or another.

    Murder isn't a childish indiscretion that should be forgiven.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


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  16. #36
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    through that wiki site, i found a link to this case

    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/p...ving-life.html

    a girl who killed her pimp at age 16 (after he'd raped her and pimped her out for 3 years) was sentenced to life imprison. both her sentence and the sentence in the OP seem like complete miscarriages of justice! should have been reversed, IMO.
    My mare wonders about all this fuss about birth control when she's only seen a handful of testicles in her entire life. Living with an intact male of my species, I feel differently! WAYSIDE


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  17. #37
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    In a way she's been living in a fantasy world still and writing about it. Thankfully no one has interfered with her fantasy world in such a way that she felt the need to bash their head with a brick 20 times. Probably she's just calculating enough not to do something like that again.

    But clearly there is something very wrong with someone who would do that in the first place. If you blame it on someone being 15 years old then YOU are clueless.

    She only served 5 years. She got off very easy. I don't know anything about NZ law but in this country an underage offender can be sentenced to life with the possibility of parole.

    Being identified as a murderer will have to be punishment enough now.


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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
    Murder isn't a childish indiscretion.
    This. Prison has several purposes and one (but hardly the only) is to remind people that there truly are things you can do that indicate you don't get to be part of the herd, even if you promise you'll never ever do it again. Not all deaths/killings are the same. This particular one was not "youthful indiscretion".

    NOT related to this case, but on the topic of redemption, I have been very interested in the hospice program run by Angola prison, a place with a truly wretched history. Somehow it seems to have managed to provide some of its inmates (of course a good number of them likely should not have been there inthe first place) with a real shot at atonement, as they get to provide care for their dying colleagues. Never been there, but if that's true, I like the concept.


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  19. #39
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    We read books all the TIME by people who have killed as soldiers in war--"American Sniper" and "Matterhorn" come immediately to mind. No problem!

    Murder, along with everything from prostitution to questionable parenting, is a valid part of the overall palette of human experience; since we are constantly "entertained" by murder in every other medium, how would reading such a book be essentially different than watching a movie about Jack the Ripper?

    Whether or not the miscreant should profit by relating his adventures, is, of course, a different ethical question.


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  20. #40
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    I don't read her books. It wasn't just the murder of an innocent woman, but the quote in the article I read about it, something like "It seems as if it all happened to someone else"--that was attributed to Anne Perry or whatever name she goes by in real life. I found that heartless, and cruel, because it did happen to someone else, and that person is dead. I usually don't read British mysteries, but I definitely won't make an exception in her case either. As a consumer I don't have to buy items from people that I find objectionable for a reason, and I don't. There are certain food providers I don't deal with because of their publicly held views, or where the profits go, so I prefer to give my money to companies and providers that I don't feel hypocritical dealing with.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White


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