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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
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    15,405

    Default Leasing out horses who need training. Really?

    I find these situations around: HO wants to lease out a horse who needs something of value from the lessee-- training, to be shown, heck, even gotten back into shape after 2 years in pasture.

    That's not how leasing has traditionally worked. IME, the lessee was renting a horse ready-made to do a job for them.

    Whaddup with the New Way? Any opinions?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2005
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    Northeast
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    10,571

    Default

    It's a win-win move for the lessor usually.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Default

    There is someone on Craiglist that keeps advertising a colt for lease, 5 years old, with 60 days under saddle, for experienced rider and, oh, "he is a really pretty horse".

    Generally, the owner has to PAY to get such a horse ridden.
    They don't get to lease it and have someone else train it for them and pay for the honor of doing so.

    He keeps posting, started at $200 a month, is down to $20 a month for the lease.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2006
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    1,919

    Default

    I have no issue with leasing an out of shape horse as a free lease. But otherwise? Agreed 110%. I would never suggest to lease or lease a prospect myself. Such a waste of time for the person leasing it.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan. 8, 2013
    Posts
    166

    Default

    I think it depends on where you are. In an area without trained horses available for lease, it's a viable option for someone without a horse. On a free lease, care only basis, of course. I have leased an out of shape horse needing rehabbed from a suspensory injury. It worked for both me and the owner as I needed a horse to ride and she got to cut down on expenses (1/2 lease)



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
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    18,599

    Default

    Free lease fine, otherwise....
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2007
    Location
    San Jose, Ca
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    5,398

    Default

    Well, I have "leased" many horses like this. But it was FREE, HO paid board, feed, all costs etc. I rode the horse, put on miles and training. Free horse for me to ride, free training for the HO. Win Win.

    Its how I managed to ride through college, and my first few “broke” years out in the real world.

    Paying for such a situation, nope, that wouldn't work for me. And I have had a few free leases end because once the horse was going well, the HO then started wanting some $$! Sorry, I am not paying to continue training your horse! I will find a new training project!


    4 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 29, 2011
    Posts
    147

    Default

    There's a woman at my barn and last fall she was looking for someone to half lease her horse because she wasn't able to get to the barn as often over the winter. I think she was offering 2-3 rides per week and was asking about half the cost of board, and requiring at least two lessons a month (at riders expense)
    The horse doesn't require training per-say, but does require quite an experienced rider. She didn't get much response to her ad and was pretty picky about who she picked, in the end she gave up on the whole thing
    I had offered in passing to ride her horse for.her a couple tones a week, but I was not willing to pay for 'the privilege' to me it seemed more like me doing her a favour.
    I've considered having someone part lease my horse, or what I would do if I couldn't ride for awhile, and I would only do a free lease, I definitely would not expect anyone else to pay to ride my horse because she does need training and is not easy to ride, it's more likely that I would have to pay someone to ride her.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun. 9, 2012
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    417

    Default

    I *leased* a horse this way once. I say leased lightly, because I didn't pay for any of the horses' upkeep. Whatever I bought for the horse, she would take off the purchase price if I so chose to buy him after he was trained. Well, horse and I never clicked, and I wouldn't have bought him even if he had been trained then. My training the horse was in exchange for getting to use it. Horse stayed at the HO's property.

    It ended up not working out. Due to several reasons, but the major one was that HO was a Parelli person and so after 3/4 months, I'd only sat on the horse once. And when I had started, I'd been told the horse should be ready to ride by the next month. There was no gain, IMO, for me OR the horse. I wasn't allowed to work at my pace, but had to work at owner's veryyyyyyy slowwwwwww pace. Weeks and weeks of doing the same thing over and over again.

    I'm glad I got out when I did, cause she turned out to be even nuttier than I had originally thought.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
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    Default

    Thanks for your replies!

    Let's clear up some terminology in this thread.

    "Lease" means lessee pays expenses, maybe insurance, and a lease fee.

    "Free lease" means expenses but no lease fee.

    "I ride it but HO feeds it"? Do you guys call that a lease, too? It doesn't seem that way to me.

    The leases I am talking about are those "Free Leases" where the lessee does pay some or all of the expenses in exchange for riding time.

    Carry on.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2010
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    Orygun
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    Default

    Here's a sneaky one. I once needed a horse to ride and a 'friend' asked me to come out and put some saddles on her green mare, IF I wanted to. Win-win I thought. After a couple of rides, for fun around the property, plunking along but keeping the mare straightened out, I got a call from her saying I needed to chip in on shoes and some feed. After all, I was getting to ride for free! Um, no, she asked me to ride and never said anything about money. I just wanted to plunk around. It wasn't even real training, just plough-reining and a bit of leg. That was the end of that.
    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul. 22, 2007
    Location
    South of Georgia, North of Miami
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    Default

    I did this once when I was between horses and it worked out great for both of us. I love to school horses. She had a greenie that was on her property so she wasn't paying any board. I paid nothing and she got sone nice buttons put on the horse. We parted ways after about 6 months when I bought my own horse again.

    But would I have paid to ride and train...hell to the NO.


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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 24, 2006
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    1,203

    Default

    What I don't understand is how someone can up and lease a greenie if they plan on keeping that horse later in life. There are very few people (although I do know a few horse women I would trust implicitly) that I would want to start and ride and train my young horse. And not one of them is looking to put free training on someone's horse lol. If I planned on selling it, maybe........ I would be much more willing to lease out a been there, done that, you're gonna have a tough time ruining me, type horse.
    Kerri


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2005
    Posts
    594

    Default

    Generally how I've seen it go is, if the primary goal is for the rider to improve, then the rider is the one paying; if the primary goal is for the horse to improve, then the rider rides for free.

    But, I think there's potentially a gray area where a particular lease arrangement might benefit both the horse and the rider equally, and there's some room for negotiation there. There are some very competent ammies looking for more time in the saddle to hone their skills, and plenty of horses that fall somewhere between neon-green and fully-trained. Like for example a middle-aged horse with some training but also some issues to fix, and an owner who needs a little help with the bills and the horse, and a lessor who can't afford their own horse but is capable of making a positive impact on the horse.

    JMO.


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  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2009
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    4,598

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    Thanks for your replies!

    Let's clear up some terminology in this thread.

    "Lease" means lessee pays expenses, maybe insurance, and a lease fee.

    "Free lease" means expenses but no lease fee.

    "I ride it but HO feeds it"? Do you guys call that a lease, too? It doesn't seem that way to me.

    The leases I am talking about are those "Free Leases" where the lessee does pay some or all of the expenses in exchange for riding time.

    Carry on.
    I've done this twice with two different green horses. When I was in college, I paid something like $200/mo. to ride someone's green horse as though it were mine while they tried to sell him. I rode him for people to look at from time to time too, rode him in his sales photos, etc. The horse was really cool. I loved him. He was 15.1, a quarter horse, and he jumped 4 ft easily and in great form. Adorable! BUT, he wasn't really working at all when I showed up at this particular barn as a poor college student with a reasonable show history but no horse to call my own anymore. He had scared his owner a bit and she didn't want to ride him. He did get sold, and the person that bought him still has him. I think he is about 20 now.

    The other one I did it with, I paid a set amount (a little more than $200, but not a TON) and took the horse over for a summer. He was a fairly recently raced TB that belonged to a friend who had taken a working student position far away and didn't want to ship him/deal with him while she was away. That worked out great too. I tended to his needs and had something fun to ride all summer. We went from figuring out trot poles to jumping a 3 ft oxer in a grid the last day I rode him that summer.

    If the right people are involved and the dollars are fair, I think it can be a great situation. I have no regrets at all about either scenario. I had a great time with both horses. I actually wish I could have bought them both.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2009
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kasjordan View Post
    What I don't understand is how someone can up and lease a greenie if they plan on keeping that horse later in life. There are very few people (although I do know a few horse women I would trust implicitly) that I would want to start and ride and train my young horse. And not one of them is looking to put free training on someone's horse lol. If I planned on selling it, maybe........ I would be much more willing to lease out a been there, done that, you're gonna have a tough time ruining me, type horse.
    Well...in scenario no. 1 that I described, there just wasn't really anyone else who wanted to ride the horse. He was out of work, and he had scared his owner (I'm not even really sure what he did to scare her...I never really asked...ah to be young and dumb!). So, if I didn't ride him, he would have continued to sit around. Plus, yeah, he was for sale, so anything anyone could do to get him going was a help.

    In scenario no. 2, the horse's owner was a very good friend of mine and we grew up together and rode with the same trainer for most of our lives. She basically told me that she trusted me to do the right thing with her horse, and I felt capable of honoring that trust.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 24, 2009
    Posts
    134

    Default

    I see this all the time on the local facebook groups for horse ads etc in my area. Sometimes its even a 3 year old for lease (not started) with fee. Does my head in.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan. 24, 2000
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    Out of the loop
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by suzier444 View Post
    But, I think there's potentially a gray area where a particular lease arrangement might benefit both the horse and the rider equally, and there's some room for negotiation there.
    I agree completely. This is a situation where timing (and location) can be everything.

    A first-person for-instance: I have a 24yo who is sound to ride but at the point where demands on her need to decrease; she's pretty well maxed out on potential. I have a 15yo who is in rehab from some pretty bad soft-tissue damage and may or may not come back to be able to compete again.

    If a conveniently located green horse with potential in my discipline were to come available for a reasonable part- or full-lease agreement, if the owner and I were compatible and competition was on the table, if all the stars aligned ... yes, I might consider paying to support (or help support) the horse for a period merely to stay in the game, so to speak.

    ETA: This assumes the horse is started, with a solid basic foundation, and could reasonably be expected to enter the showring in a relatively short amount of time ... not a rank greenbean who hadn't been started yet.
    Equinox Equine Massage

    In the depth of winter, I finally learned that there was in me invincible summer.
    -Albert Camus



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct. 16, 2012
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    Across the Atlantic
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    Default

    You see this in the UK as well. I was contacted by someone who wanted their 14-year old OTTB, who had spent most of his post-racing life in a field and on the occasional hack, reschooled in dressage basics because daughter was taking dressage lessons (on a different horse) and mum was feeling inspired to give her old boy a new start. Also, help backing their 3-year old cob would be nice as well. Fine, I said, and told them what I charge. She wrote back, "Oh, I can't afford to *pay* a trainer, as all spare cash goes to daughter's dressage lessons, and I was wanting someone to come out 2-3 times per week." I told her I couldn't afford to be driving up there for nothing.

    I see ads all the time stating things like, "Amazing opportunity part loan (British for lease) beautiful young horse. Needs experienced rider, as only recently been started under saddle. £25 per week." Um, I'm not going to pay you for me to train your horse (does the wording of that work?).


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  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2002
    Location
    Maryland
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    3,626

    Default

    I have done it and it is not uncommon where I am.
    I was not in a position to buy a horse at the time but wanted to keep riding regularly. Knew of someone who had a nice but green horse that they did not have time for. She was not 60 days under saddle green but needed education (I am not a trainer but am a decent rider and ride regularly with a trainer).
    I had her for about 6 months where I paid her expenses only.
    At the end, owner got a horse with some extra training on it and some competition results to point to in a sales ad and I got a horse to ride and compete without the inherents risks of ownership. win-win.
    Horses that are completely job-ready I expect to have a lease fee added on to expenses.
    There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.(Churchill)



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