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  1. #1
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    Question Eventers and Horses at the Top - Would the list be the same if we never lost the LF?

    I am curious to hear what everyone's opinion is. If we never lost the Long Format, do you think it would be the same horses and riders who are on the short lists, are successful at the 4* level, and make the teams?

    I would love to hear why or why you do not think so.



  2. #2
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    Riders I actually think its pretty easy to say yes, mainly because the current team riders are still largely the old team riders lol. That is to say (choosing our last Olympic team), Phillip and Karen certainly proved they were successful LF riders, , Coleman stepped on to the big stage by winning NAYRC when it was a LF, and I believe, though am not certain, that Boyd was successful in LF's in OZ. The one with minimal to no LF experience is Tiana. Draw your own conclusions.

    Horses it's tougher to say. Some of them, absolutely. Others, it's hard to say.
    Phoenix Farm ~ Breeding-Training-Sales
    Eventing, Dressage, Young Horses
    www.phoenixsporthorses.com
    Check out my new blog: http://califcountrymom.blogspot.com


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  3. #3
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    Agree with Phoenix Farm. Most of the Top is still the same.

    GBR (WFP, Mary King, etc) would still rule the world, that is no different!
    “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
    ? Albert Einstein

    ~AJ~



  4. #4
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    TB blood still rules at the highest level as well, a result that was perhaps not anticipated when the format was shortened.


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixFarm View Post
    Riders I actually think its pretty easy to say yes, mainly because the current team riders are still largely the old team riders lol. That is to say (choosing our last Olympic team), Phillip and Karen certainly proved they were successful LF riders, , Coleman stepped on to the big stage by winning NAYRC when it was a LF, and I believe, though am not certain, that Boyd was successful in LF's in OZ. The one with minimal to no LF experience is Tiana. Draw your own conclusions.

    Horses it's tougher to say. Some of them, absolutely. Others, it's hard to say.
    Do you think the same for those who ride at the ULs that have never done a 3* or 4* Long Format?



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jealoushe View Post
    I am curious to hear what everyone's opinion is. .
    Everyone's? Or our ranking old timer experts, young guns need not apply (sorry, still a little stung).

    I think PF makes a good point, but let's look at the time line for a moment...
    The format of the sport underwent major changes in 2004 and 2005, with the creation of the "short" or "modified format", which excluded phases A, B, and C from endurance day. The primary reason for excluding these phases was that the Olympic Committee was considering dropping the sport of eventing from the Olympics because of the cost and large area required for the speed and endurance phase with a steeplechase course and several miles of roads-and-tracks. To prevent the elimination of the sport from the Olympics program, the "short format" was developed by the FEI.
    (from Wiki)
    All blessing to the FEI for "saving" Eventing for the Olympics </sarcasm> Consider that the last LF run in the Olympics was in 2000 (Sydney) and the last Circuit LF was 2005. Lets take the 2000 Olympics since it really set the stage for 2005.

    I can see PF's thought that some of the same "Elder's" would still make the teams, but consider the number of potential young riders just breaking into the top levels at the time...They'd be face with the same choice today, run LF(s) and miss out on all the FEI candy or train for the SF because it is now the only path up. With that, you'd not see any young riders in a LF 4*, because they would have no experience.

    As to horses, I'm no horse person, but I can read, I can listen, and much of what comes out is that a horse of today could not handle a LF at the top level. The horse of today is not the endurance horse, but the show horse to win in dressage and make sure that score carries to the end. It will become more the norm for riders in the top levels to ride horses for a time, then switch out to another as this sport places focus not on the rider horse, but on the rider.



  7. #7
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    On a related note, 1994 World Champion eventer Bounce has died at the age of 30. Vaughn Jefferis and Bounce represented New Zealand in the 1994 WEG, 1996 Olympics, 1998 WEG, and 2000 Olympics. Bounce also had four starts in five years at Badminton, finishing second, third, fifth, and tenth from 1994-98. He ended his career with a CCI*** win at Puhinui in 2000, at age 18.


    But the long format is Bad for Horses.
    “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
    ? Albert Einstein

    ~AJ~


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  8. #8
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    Riders yes, horses, not necessarily. Isn't it fair to say that the presence of the steeplechase and r&t would require a greater balance between dressage and endurance, and that some horses who can't be be successful in SF would be more so in LF? Not that there wouldn't be some equine athletes currently at the top who would be competitive LF, just that there might be others, too?
    Last edited by lmlacross; Mar. 29, 2013 at 09:50 AM.



  9. #9
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    I think the SF actually requires more endurance for horses (more efforts in a shorter distance= no breaks). Sure, there are some that just squeak by, but I bet that was the case back in the day, too. The biggest difference is that the dressage has improved so much that you can't just count on a clear xc with minimal time faults being enough to make up a 30 point deficit. A horse like Parklane Hawk would have no trouble with the LF.



  10. #10
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    I find it interesting, to look at the horse rider combos and think how different the fields might be if the format never changed.

    You need a different type of horse for the LF...I much prefer these types



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highflyer View Post
    I think the SF actually requires more endurance for horses (more efforts in a shorter distance= no breaks). Sure, there are some that just squeak by, but I bet that was the case back in the day, too. The biggest difference is that the dressage has improved so much that you can't just count on a clear xc with minimal time faults being enough to make up a 30 point deficit. A horse like Parklane Hawk would have no trouble with the LF.

    I disagree. Your analogy is like saying a wrestler has the same endurance as a hurdler. Different physiologies. The studies done at the two star level in the UK bear this out. Short format horse performance collapsed at 7 minutes as compared to the long-format horses who were on XC for up to 12 minutes.



  12. #12
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    Cites, please. I'd LOVE to read those studies.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  13. #13
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    A comparison of cross-country recovery rates at CCI 2* with and without steeplechase competitions
    J. K. MURRAY1, J. M. SENIOR, E. R. SINGER
    Equine Veterinary Journal
    Special Issue: Proceedings of the 7th International Conference of Equine Exercise Physiology
    Volume 38, Issue S36, pages 133–138, August 2006


    Exercise Physiology of Eventing
    DJ Marlin - Equine Vet J Suppl, 2007


    How useful are submaximal exercise tests to forecast performance?
    RJ Rose, RM Christley - Equine Veterinary Journal, 1995


    This is the one where they found it is likely we over supplement the horses:

    Feeding management practices and supplement use in top-level event horses
    A O Burk and C A Williams
    Comparative Exercise Physiology / Volume 5 / Issue 02 / May 2008, pp 85-93


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  14. #14
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    It seems like the LF horses were around longer than the SF horses too...



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