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  1. #41
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    Things will certainly become more testy, at least for a while. The AR folks are spending lots of money on new camera-equipped microdrones. That's right, they spend less than 2% of their begged income on actual animals, but are willing to layout their donors' funds to buy drones. They hope that they can access property with the drone which they cannot legally reach from the ground.
    Fortunately, one such drone was shot down in South Carolina in 2012. There will now be many new laws regarding the use of drones!
    It would be better for the animals if the AR zealots would quit worrying about conducting aerial or undercover surveillance, and start feeding their own animals!



  2. #42
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    Being a witness is not a crime. Setting yourself in a position to be a witness is also not a crime. No one enticed McConnell or any of the cow-forkers to commit their crimes.

    These are crimes against livestock. Low priority stuff. Yet we want to now jail those that seek to gather the evidence to shut the criminals down?

    Maybe we should give them badges. Been done before.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  3. #43
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    "Photos provided by the animal rights group show the multicopter smoking on the ground, with its lithium polymer battery supply smoldering. Another photo shows the drone’s video camera smashed. The drone, dubbed “Angel,” was a Cinestar 8 octocopter estimated at $4,000."

    http://www.suasnews.com/2012/11/1971...r-fourth-time/



  4. #44
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    Badges? Aren't some hsus members in jail because they were arriving at seizures with badges and patches they designed and made themselves? There is too much proof that the AR folks have fallen off the cliff. The badge thing has been done before and that got them arrested!!!!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
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    This report would make you laugh if it weren't so scary! Hurleycane, this is what happens when badges come into play!

    http://www.humanewatch.org/index.php...aux_swat_team/


    Oh by the way, the Allan Schwartz quoted in the above article really is the ex-husband of the director of DEFHR (Day's End Farm Horse Rescue in Maryland)



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    "Photos provided by the animal rights group show the multicopter smoking on the ground, with its lithium polymer battery supply smoldering. Another photo shows the drone’s video camera smashed. The drone, dubbed “Angel,” was a Cinestar 8 octocopter estimated at $4,000."

    http://www.suasnews.com/2012/11/1971...r-fourth-time/
    flying a drone into a bird shoot...ah, gotta love it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurleycane View Post
    Being a witness is not a crime. Setting yourself in a position to be a witness is also not a crime. No one enticed McConnell or any of the cow-forkers to commit their crimes.

    These are crimes against livestock. Low priority stuff. Yet we want to now jail those that seek to gather the evidence to shut the criminals down?

    Maybe we should give them badges. Been done before.
    Instigating crimes is a crime, and withholding evidence is a crime...


    and good grief, considering on who is crying foul, seems it was high time that law was drawn up!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #48
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    I remember an Ohio case where the brother of the self proclaimed Vet Tech who was part of the HS investigative team..used his badge to threaten those who disagreed with his sister and her buddies....jail time.

    If all fairness he WAS a police officer however was abusing the badge. I read he was fired for sexual interference with a minor. He was also suspended for using his position of power during the seizure

    The writer in Modern Arabians stated what he heard at the training seminar for AC and police officers. JUST DO IT. Don't worry about the lies. They can be "apologized out" later

    The HSUS activist lawyer in New Hampshire who told attende"s (Ra'ra's) that THEY could use any excuse OR "claim" to gain access to any animals on private propertyi because the law could not do it without a warrant. They could then make their complaint against the owner THROUGH her or another HSUS lawyer so they would have their identity protected.

    When one hears week after week "this is the WORST" case of abuse..and then we discover yet another false alarm..It has a two fold message...Listeners tune it out..and even law officials become jaded and refuse to act on bonifide abuse cases..


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
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    How many times do we find a crime is committed and a year or so later a charge is brought or a criminal has his day in court? Justice takes time.

    And look at all the cases of HPA violations against McConnell - were there any undercover law enforcement officials in McConnell's barn?

    You all.... it is livestock.

    Let us not use our tax dollars to round them up when motivated "agenda" folks can do the work for free.

    Hey - are all Pivate Investigators being held to the same scrutiny? I wonder.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurleycane View Post
    folks can do the work for free.

    Hey - are all Pivate Investigators being held to the same scrutiny? I wonder.
    http://www.bsis.ca.gov/forms_pubs/pi_fact.shtml

    I am sure other states have similar requirements:
    they can't go off willy-nilly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  11. #51
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    Hurleycane,

    In the bigger picture, it is not whether an animal is considered livestock, etc.
    The point being missed is that these animals are owned by people who have rights. Too often, overzealous AR folks show up and trample the owners' rights. Then, they attempt to level charges.
    The constitution protects us against such nonsense. To flippantly say that these 'pseudo' investigators shouldn't be held to the same standards as other investigators is a recipe for disaster.
    Remember, we have proof that 'rescuers' withheld food from seized animals, dyed sections of hair to give the illusion of ribs, instructed people to lower their so-called body score(it turned out that all of these AR folks had no clue how to score an animal or that body score is irrelevant) and on and on.
    They had their day and were growing quickly, but sanity is finally beginning to return. These AR zealots must be stopped in their tracks. And if they keep popping up on various boards, their challenge will be answered with facts! And facts always dumbfound them!



  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    No offense, Alagirl, but you're either being incredibly dense or deliberately obtuse in failing to understand what the issue is here. You LIVE in the South for God's sake, how are you not getting it that this is a problem?

    Here's how the scenario is going to play out in Tennessee: Big Lick Trainer "A", who is drankin' buddies with District Attorney "B" and Big Lick Trainer "X" and lives next door to Deputy Sheriff "C", with whom he goes huntin' an' drankin' when he ain't pokin' TWH with electrified cattle prods or beatin' 'em over the haid, is going to get a tipoff from Big Lick Trainer "X's" assistant, via "X", that one of his grooms just... mayyyy... be shootin' a bit of unauthorized vid.

    NOW do you see where we're going with this?? Or are you still missing it?

    Here's what happens: Big Lick Trainer "A" calls his buddy Deputy Sheriff "C" and says "Mercy sakes alive, good buddy, I think I got me a LAHHHHVE one. What say you c'mon over here, son, and arrest this here feller so we can see what's on his phone cam? Well lookee here boys, he's sho' 'nuff got him some video that could get me 'rested 'n' thrown in jail... EXCEPT THAT WE NOW HAVE THIS LAW THAT MAKES THE WHISTLE-BLOWER INTO THE CRIMINAL IF HE IS IN POSSESSION OF SUCH VIDEO FOR LONGER THAN 48 HOURS AND DOESN'T TURN IT OVER."

    Clear enough? Lord have mercy I hope so.
    Trying to be insulting to southerners, or does it just come naturally?


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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurleycane View Post
    Being a witness is not a crime. Setting yourself in a position to be a witness is also not a crime. No one enticed McConnell or any of the cow-forkers to commit their crimes.

    These are crimes against livestock. Low priority stuff. Yet we want to now jail those that seek to gather the evidence to shut the criminals down?

    Maybe we should give them badges. Been done before.
    Only if they see such abuse and do NOT act!! Allowing it to go on so they can get more footage SHOULD be criminal, just as it is for people!



  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurleycane View Post
    Let us not use our tax dollars to round them up when motivated "agenda" folks can do the work for free.
    Having personally dealt with "motivated "agenda" folks can do the work for free" I do not recommend it.

    You also state: "These are crimes against livestock." This is absolutely, categorically WRONG. All crimes are offenses against the peace and dignity of the State. You don't even need a defined victim in some circumstances (like insider trading).

    Are they "low priority" in a state with one of the highest rates of meth manufacture in the country? Yes, they are. And they should be.

    There is a vast well of ignorance about how the criminal justice process works and it's reflected in the advocacy of may of these "motivated people." If they hold PI licences then they must operate within the limits of that license. If they don't then they run the risk of civil and criminal penalties for trespass, invasion of privacy, harassment, vandalism, tortuous interference with contract, etc. That they were on a mission to prevent animal cruelty sounds good, but as often as not is a mere sham for some other purpose.

    I've no love for Jackie, but I do have a great love for the Constitution and its protections. I'll not surrender them without a fight.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão



  15. #55
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    Not that most who are posting on this thread care, but here are several viable reasons why the 24 hour reporting rule may be a problem. I'll be waiting on a reply from the 3 horsemen and the 4th on training wheels.

    "Why are these provisions problematic? There are a few key reasons, but Big Ag doesn't choose to recognize them. A blog by the Animal Agriculture Alliance defending these "Farm Protection" bills (as the industry prefers to call them) suggests that if organizations (like the Humane Society of the United States, or HSUS, and Mercy for Animals) who have carried out undercover investigations "truly cared about animal welfare, then they wouldn't wait one second to report a valid issue to the proper authorities." These organizations, the commentator argues, would rather let their cameras roll for days or weeks, trading away law enforcement's ability to intervene early in cases of animal cruelty to create lengthy "propaganda" pieces.

    This cynical view, however, ignores the important role that long-form undercover investigations play in combating animal cruelty and the common experience of whistleblowers within the food industry and beyond. Undercover video:

    Motivates the public to take action
    Provides a larger body of evidence for law enforcement, and
    Protects the whistleblower
    Preventing all of the above, mandatory reporting laws are simply wolves dressed in sheep's clothing.

    Let's break these reasons down. First, longer-form investigative pieces compel the public to place direct pressure on violators to take action to prevent animal abuse. Case in point: late USDA veterinarian Dean Wyatt consistently raised concerns of humane handling violations at two processing plants, but his complaints weren't treated seriously by the government until undercover footage taken by HSUS at the plants was released, sparking public outrage and vindicating him. By then, however, he had been transferred, demoted and stigmatized for doing his job. Wyatt's case is one of many showing the routine practice of whistleblower retaliation that makes documenting wrongdoing via video recordings essential.

    Second, documenting longer-form investigations provides law enforcement with a larger body of evidence to facilitate prosecution than a report of a single isolated incident. And law enforcement apparently needs all the help and encouragement it can get, as reports of animal cruelty rarely result in prosecution and conviction. According to a report issued by the Connecticut Office of Legislative Research, of the 1,369 animal cruelty cases brought in that state between 2004 and 2007, only 182 resulted in conviction. In most cases, the prosecutor decided not to prosecute.

    Lastly, and perhaps most important, mandatory reporting laws like those proposed in Nebraska and New Hampshire are intended to, and will in fact, make performing and documenting these valuable longer-form investigations impossible. That's because, absent meaningful whistleblower protections for the workers required to report violations, which these bills don't provide, mandatory reporting requirements will make it easy for the company to isolate those who speak up and retaliate against them. If workers are forced to come forward with such evidence in a matter of hours, it eliminates the possibility of them working with outside organizations to both shield their identity and publicize the wrongdoing correctly."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/food-i...b_2593152.html

    And yes, it's from the Huffington Post, and yes, I'm a liberal...and proud of it.
    Last edited by LauraKY; Mar. 28, 2013 at 01:14 PM.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #56
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    Udder nonsense!



  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    The HSUS has given notice that, in their next phase, they are going to concentrate on lobbying and trying to pass laws that further their agenda of eventually eliminating all uses of animals and that they will now be releasing an abuse video a month.

    :
    Link to this stmt/notice they released, please...


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  18. #58
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    The problem is there is no protection for whistleblowers. Read the portion of the article I posted. It does seem reasonable until you consider some of the consequences of 24 hour reporting.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    Udder nonsense!
    That's what my cow said!
    "My doctrine is this, that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt.”
    ― Anna Sewell



  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    Udder nonsense!

    That is just what I was thinking thru all that, nonsense.

    Really, who will stand there and sit on those abuse videos for weeks, waiting for the dairy vote to come to the state docket and release it right before it and THINK that is fine?

    Right, nonsense.



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