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  1. #1
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    Default Tennessee residents - please say no to the ag-gag bill

    Go take a look. All links to contact state officials are at this site.

    http://myemail.constantcontact.com/A...id=5Yj6vc6KiSM
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
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    I don't understand.

    would you now want evidence of a criminal act to be given to law enforcement?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    Alagirl - did you read it ? The 24 hour time frame may be too restrictive to get a case built against an abuser.
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
    Alagirl - did you read it ? The 24 hour time frame may be too restrictive to get a case built against an abuser.
    I read it and I am confused.

    It read to give it to law enforcement to me.

    Yes. I do consider the possibility that I have this completely backward.

    I am trying to play the scenarios through in my head.


    I mean, law enforcement would be building the case, right.

    And I am seriously and honestly confused.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett



  5. #5
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    Default

    Agreed.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
    Go take a look. All links to contact state officials are at this site.

    http://myemail.constantcontact.com/A...id=5Yj6vc6KiSM

    Quote Originally Posted by hurleycane View Post
    I sure hope these "Ag-Gag" efforts get chased out of law. I have no doubt that if it wasn't for the private sector being willing to go undercover horses would still be whipped and kicked to get up in that infamous barn.

    No way would local or even federal law enforcement think about dedicating resources to investigate McConnell for abuse of show horses.

    These cases have to be handed to them.
    ...
    "Them" being the DA.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  7. #7
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    Default

    Having been personally involved in a botched "animal cruelty" case (botched by a trained ACO who executed monumentally bad judgement in mis-intrepreting livestock condition) I'm not at all willing to encourage "vigilante 007s" who are likely even less competent that our long gone ACO. Civilians playing Nancy Drew generally come to a bad end.

    The time stated in the bill is more than enough to get the ball rolling.

    I live in TN and I've got no heartburn with the bill. I'll let my reps know.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
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    I'll take Guilherme's point a little further. This bill doesn't prevent anything. It merely states that photo/video must be given to law enforcement within 24 hours. So, if abuse continues, take more photos and continue to give to law enforcement. It sounds like this law actually has the potential of ending abuses much more quickly than in the past.
    Also, many cases result in a deluge of photos from the animal rights activists or rescuers 'after the fact' In many cases, the photos were found to be photoshopped, etc, to support seizure/charges. A 24 hour window on the photos would cut down on any doctoring of the evidence!



  9. #9
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    “This is not about animal protection. This is about protecting the food industry,” says Leighann McCollum, the Tennessee State Director of the Humane Society of the United States. “This is about blowing the whistle on the whistle-blower as soon as possible.”

    McCollum says if the bill were actually about preventing cruelty to animals, it would cover all animals, not just livestock (that is, livestock as specifically defined by the Tennessee Code Annotated). If the bill was about animal cruelty, she says, it would require anyone who sees abuse to report it, not just those filming or photographing it. And if the bill were really about animal abuse, it would require law enforcement to investigate the complaints. The legislation, as currently written, does no such thing.

    What it would do, however, is prevent long-term investigations into animal cruelty and safety in the agricultural business. And that, says McCollum, is exactly the point. She notes that the Humane Society is generally tipped off to wrongdoing by workers on a farm scared to report abuses for fear of losing their jobs. The likelihood of such workers now turning to the police—who, in small rural towns, could easily be close friends with the farm owners—is small, she says.

    McCollum also says that it’s tough for law enforcement to take action on animal abuse based on just one picture or video.

    “It really depends on the situation, but in most cases you have to show repeated violations—that it’s not just one worker who had a bad day and struck a horse once,” McCollum says. She mentions that last year’s investigation of “soring” Tennessee Walking Horses took two months to document and compile a solid case that included violations of federal law. That case? It took place in Collierville, in Gresham’s district.

    In the House Agriculture and Natural Resources Subcommittee hearing last week, Holt admitted that the bill was geared at preventing “radical animal activists” from “foreign states” coming into Tennessee and causing trouble for the livestock industry. But Laura Cascada, a spokesperson for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, says sometimes such investigations are necessary.

    Cascada points to a PETA investigation at an Iowa pig farm, when abuses continued even after they were reported to company supervisors, abuses that including beating and sexually abusing pigs with canes and shoving clothespins in their eyes. That case took three months to investigate and resulted in 22 charges of livestock neglect and abuse filed against six former employees and led to the state’s first convictions for the abuse or neglect of factory-farmed pigs.

    “This industry should be held accountable under the law and in the public eye,” Cascada says. “This bill is a sneaky attempt by the agriculture industry to prevent longterm investigation of abuse.”

    McCollum also notes the ramifications for food safety. “This is an industry that should be as transparent as possible,” she says.

    But it’s not just animal rights activists that are opposed to the legislation. The Tennessee Press Association says the bill would shut down investigative reporting on livestock in the state.

    “It’s a very bad bill,” says Frank Gibson, the public policy director of the TPA. “It in effect will repeal a section of the Tennessee Reporter’s Shield Law that has been on the books since 1973. Under this law a reporter working on a story that takes longer than a day, as most stories do, would be guilty of a crime.”

    Gibson also points out that since the bill requires a person to turn over unedited video and photographs to law enforcement, it could expose reporters’ confidential sources, also protected by the shield law. He says that the TPA talked to Holt and tried to get him to exempt media from the bill, but he refused to do so.

    http://www.metropulse.com/news/2013/...cing-animal-c/
    Join the Clinton 2016 campaign...Hillary For America. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/


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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    “This is not about animal protection. This is about protecting the food industry,” says Leighann McCollum, the Tennessee State Director of the Humane Society of the United States. “This is about blowing the whistle on the whistle-blower as soon as possible.”

    McCollum says if the bill were actually about preventing cruelty to animals, it would cover all animals, not just livestock (that is, livestock as specifically defined by the Tennessee Code Annotated). If the bill was about animal cruelty, she says, it would require anyone who sees abuse to report it, not just those filming or photographing it. And if the bill were really about animal abuse, it would require law enforcement to investigate the complaints. The legislation, as currently written, does no such thing.

    What it would do, however, is prevent long-term investigations into animal cruelty and safety in the agricultural business. And that, says McCollum, is exactly the point. She notes that the Humane Society is generally tipped off to wrongdoing by workers on a farm scared to report abuses for fear of losing their jobs. The likelihood of such workers now turning to the police—who, in small rural towns, could easily be close friends with the farm owners—is small, she says.

    McCollum also says that it’s tough for law enforcement to take action on animal abuse based on just one picture or video.

    “It really depends on the situation, but in most cases you have to show repeated violations—that it’s not just one worker who had a bad day and struck a horse once,” McCollum says. She mentions that last year’s investigation of “soring” Tennessee Walking Horses took two months to document and compile a solid case that included violations of federal law. That case? It took place in Collierville, in Gresham’s district.

    In the House Agriculture and Natural Resources Subcommittee hearing last week, Holt admitted that the bill was geared at preventing “radical animal activists” from “foreign states” coming into Tennessee and causing trouble for the livestock industry. But Laura Cascada, a spokesperson for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, says sometimes such investigations are necessary.

    Cascada points to a PETA investigation at an Iowa pig farm, when abuses continued even after they were reported to company supervisors, abuses that including beating and sexually abusing pigs with canes and shoving clothespins in their eyes. That case took three months to investigate and resulted in 22 charges of livestock neglect and abuse filed against six former employees and led to the state’s first convictions for the abuse or neglect of factory-farmed pigs.

    “This industry should be held accountable under the law and in the public eye,” Cascada says. “This bill is a sneaky attempt by the agriculture industry to prevent longterm investigation of abuse.”

    McCollum also notes the ramifications for food safety. “This is an industry that should be as transparent as possible,” she says.

    But it’s not just animal rights activists that are opposed to the legislation. The Tennessee Press Association says the bill would shut down investigative reporting on livestock in the state.

    “It’s a very bad bill,” says Frank Gibson, the public policy director of the TPA. “It in effect will repeal a section of the Tennessee Reporter’s Shield Law that has been on the books since 1973. Under this law a reporter working on a story that takes longer than a day, as most stories do, would be guilty of a crime.”

    Gibson also points out that since the bill requires a person to turn over unedited video and photographs to law enforcement, it could expose reporters’ confidential sources, also protected by the shield law. He says that the TPA talked to Holt and tried to get him to exempt media from the bill, but he refused to do so.

    http://www.metropulse.com/news/2013/...cing-animal-c/

    uh....investigations in these matters should be done by qualified official people, like ACO and LEOs, not farm hands or bystanders.

    So I am still not seeing it.

    The bill only states that you give law enforcement your unedited footage...it does not say you can't keep a copy, does not say you can't take any more. Just says you have to turn it in within 24 hours.

    sounds good to me, when you are concerned enough to take pictures...

    and I have not seen any reporters worth their salt in a while...if they do investigative articles, they should have a good working relationship with the law anyhow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett



  11. #11
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    No offense, Alagirl, but you're either being incredibly dense or deliberately obtuse in failing to understand what the issue is here. You LIVE in the South for God's sake, how are you not getting it that this is a problem?

    Here's how the scenario is going to play out in Tennessee: Big Lick Trainer "A", who is drankin' buddies with District Attorney "B" and Big Lick Trainer "X" and lives next door to Deputy Sheriff "C", with whom he goes huntin' an' drankin' when he ain't pokin' TWH with electrified cattle prods or beatin' 'em over the haid, is going to get a tipoff from Big Lick Trainer "X's" assistant, via "X", that one of his grooms just... mayyyy... be shootin' a bit of unauthorized vid.

    NOW do you see where we're going with this?? Or are you still missing it?

    Here's what happens: Big Lick Trainer "A" calls his buddy Deputy Sheriff "C" and says "Mercy sakes alive, good buddy, I think I got me a LAHHHHVE one. What say you c'mon over here, son, and arrest this here feller so we can see what's on his phone cam? Well lookee here boys, he's sho' 'nuff got him some video that could get me 'rested 'n' thrown in jail... EXCEPT THAT WE NOW HAVE THIS LAW THAT MAKES THE WHISTLE-BLOWER INTO THE CRIMINAL IF HE IS IN POSSESSION OF SUCH VIDEO FOR LONGER THAN 48 HOURS AND DOESN'T TURN IT OVER."

    Clear enough? Lord have mercy I hope so.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief


    5 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
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    I'm not sure horses are considered livestock in Tennessee. I suspect this is pointed more towards factory farms and livestock producers...cattle, poultry, etc. I guess if you don't care how your food is processed and raised, this would be a law to endorse. If you do care however, this is just another one of the Ag Gag laws being promoted by ALEC.
    Join the Clinton 2016 campaign...Hillary For America. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/



  13. #13
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    Aug. 25, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    “This is not about animal protection. This is about protecting the food industry,” says Leighann McCollum, the Tennessee State Director of the Humane Society of the United States. “This is about blowing the whistle on the whistle-blower as soon as possible.”

    McCollum says if the bill were actually about preventing cruelty to animals, it would cover all animals, not just livestock (that is, livestock as specifically defined by the Tennessee Code Annotated). If the bill was about animal cruelty, she says, it would require anyone who sees abuse to report it, not just those filming or photographing it. And if the bill were really about animal abuse, it would require law enforcement to investigate the complaints. The legislation, as currently written, does no such thing.

    What it would do, however, is prevent long-term investigations into animal cruelty and safety in the agricultural business. And that, says McCollum, is exactly the point. She notes that the Humane Society is generally tipped off to wrongdoing by workers on a farm scared to report abuses for fear of losing their jobs. The likelihood of such workers now turning to the police—who, in small rural towns, could easily be close friends with the farm owners—is small, she says.

    McCollum also says that it’s tough for law enforcement to take action on animal abuse based on just one picture or video.

    “It really depends on the situation, but in most cases you have to show repeated violations—that it’s not just one worker who had a bad day and struck a horse once,” McCollum says. She mentions that last year’s investigation of “soring” Tennessee Walking Horses took two months to document and compile a solid case that included violations of federal law. That case? It took place in Collierville, in Gresham’s district.

    In the House Agriculture and Natural Resources Subcommittee hearing last week, Holt admitted that the bill was geared at preventing “radical animal activists” from “foreign states” coming into Tennessee and causing trouble for the livestock industry. But Laura Cascada, a spokesperson for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, says sometimes such investigations are necessary.

    Cascada points to a PETA investigation at an Iowa pig farm, when abuses continued even after they were reported to company supervisors, abuses that including beating and sexually abusing pigs with canes and shoving clothespins in their eyes. That case took three months to investigate and resulted in 22 charges of livestock neglect and abuse filed against six former employees and led to the state’s first convictions for the abuse or neglect of factory-farmed pigs.

    “This industry should be held accountable under the law and in the public eye,” Cascada says. “This bill is a sneaky attempt by the agriculture industry to prevent longterm investigation of abuse.”

    McCollum also notes the ramifications for food safety. “This is an industry that should be as transparent as possible,” she says.

    But it’s not just animal rights activists that are opposed to the legislation. The Tennessee Press Association says the bill would shut down investigative reporting on livestock in the state.

    “It’s a very bad bill,” says Frank Gibson, the public policy director of the TPA. “It in effect will repeal a section of the Tennessee Reporter’s Shield Law that has been on the books since 1973. Under this law a reporter working on a story that takes longer than a day, as most stories do, would be guilty of a crime.”

    Gibson also points out that since the bill requires a person to turn over unedited video and photographs to law enforcement, it could expose reporters’ confidential sources, also protected by the shield law. He says that the TPA talked to Holt and tried to get him to exempt media from the bill, but he refused to do so.

    http://www.metropulse.com/news/2013/...cing-animal-c/
    Mostly bunk and hokum. Looks to me like somebody's carrying water for PETA and HSUS. And, of course, looking for more material for "tear jerker" fund raising.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    No offense, Alagirl, but you're either being incredibly dense or deliberately obtuse in failing to understand what the issue is here. You LIVE in the South for God's sake, how are you not getting it that this is a problem?

    Here's how the scenario is going to play out in Tennessee: Big Lick Trainer "A", who is drankin' buddies with District Attorney "B" and Big Lick Trainer "X" and lives next door to Deputy Sheriff "C", with whom he goes huntin' an' drankin' when he ain't pokin' TWH with electrified cattle prods or beatin' 'em over the haid, is going to get a tipoff from Big Lick Trainer "X's" assistant, via "X", that one of his grooms just... mayyyy... be shootin' a bit of unauthorized vid.

    NOW do you see where we're going with this?? Or are you still missing it?

    Here's what happens: Big Lick Trainer "A" calls his buddy Deputy Sheriff "C" and says "Mercy sakes alive, good buddy, I think I got me a LAHHHHVE one. What say you c'mon over here, son, and arrest this here feller so we can see what's on his phone cam? Well lookee here boys, he's sho' 'nuff got him some video that could get me 'rested 'n' thrown in jail... EXCEPT THAT WE NOW HAVE THIS LAW THAT MAKES THE WHISTLE-BLOWER INTO THE CRIMINAL IF HE IS IN POSSESSION OF SUCH VIDEO FOR LONGER THAN 48 HOURS AND DOESN'T TURN IT OVER."

    Clear enough? Lord have mercy I hope so.

    Yes, I read the bill, and I read the article.

    PETA and HSUS are crying.
    The reporter - which should be journalist has the largest credibility - but not by much considering I have not read a well written piece in eons.

    I am sorry, but PETA is NOT an arm of the law.

    If it is important enough to take a picture, isn't it important enough to take it to police?
    Right away, not a day later, or a week, or a month?

    I am sorry, but you want immediate action, the law is jumping on that.

    Does that mean the sponsor of the bill is not in the pockets of some big lick trainer? Nope.
    But I would not know the players.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett



  15. #15
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    Jun. 7, 2002
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    1,214

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    Here are the definitions of livestock and the section about cruelty to animals, to which this language would be added. Now, the bill says if you take a picture of a violation of this section prohibiting cruelty to animals, and you don't turn it over within 24 hours, you broke the law.

    So the citizen has to determine whether something they witnessed was a VIOLATION. Before the subject of the photo has been even charged, and certainly not convicted. So before a VIOLATION has been proved, the witness has to already know that it WAS a violation.

    I.E., you see a trailer carrying horses that are crammed in together. You take a picture. Later on the rig's floor breaks, scattering horses all over the road, and highway patrol cites the hauler for transporting animals in a cruel manner. Don't laugh, that did happen in TN did it not?

    A court clerk is your facebook friend and sees that you took a picture of that same trailer and were bitching about it on facebook, but it wasn't entered as evidence at the hauler's trial...

    There are endless ridiculous scenarios that one could envision under a bill that requires the bystander to judge the animal handler's guilt or innocence before he has been proven guilty by a judge or jury. It's a stupid bill and I can't believe the ACLU isn't screaming about it. It obviously is intended to make you NOT want to take a photo or video of something that may or may not qualify as a violation.

    Hell half of the professional photos from shows could arguably show a horse that is grossly overworked, better send all the pics to the cops after every show, or better yet, eventers, you are not getting any more show photos!

    39-14-201. Definitions for animal offenses.

    As used in this part, unless the context otherwise requires:

    (1) "Animal" means a domesticated living creature or a wild creature previously captured;

    (2) "Livestock" means all equine as well as animals which are being raised primarily for use as food or fiber for human utilization or consumption including, but not limited to, cattle, sheep, swine, goats, and poultry;

    (3) "Non-livestock animal" means a pet normally maintained in or near the household or households of its owner or owners, other domesticated animal, previously captured wildlife, an exotic animal, or any other pet, including but not limited to, pet rabbits, a pet chick, duck, or pot bellied pig that is not classified as "livestock" pursuant to this part; and

    (4) "Torture" means every act, omission, or neglect whereby unreasonable physical pain, suffering, or death is caused or permitted, but nothing in this part shall be construed as prohibiting the shooting of birds or game for the purpose of human food or the use of animate targets by incorporated gun clubs.

    ...

    39-14-202. Cruelty to animals.

    (a) A person commits an offense who intentionally or knowingly:

    (1) Tortures, maims or grossly overworks an animal;

    (2) Fails unreasonably to provide necessary food, water, care or shelter for an animal in the person's custody;

    (3) Abandons unreasonably an animal in the person's custody;

    (4) Transports or confines an animal in a cruel manner; or

    (5) Inflicts burns, cuts, lacerations, or other injuries or pain, by any method, including blistering compounds, to the legs or hooves of horses in order to make them sore for any purpose including, but not limited to, competition in horse shows and similar events.


    Now...the bill is silent on what sort of punishment you get if you violate it.
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns




  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun. 27, 2005
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    KY
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    Default

    Some people just don't get how things work in the real world.

    Abuse will be covered up by the good ole' boy network anytime possible.
    That includes most rural LE, ACO's (still called dog wardens in some areas) and county officials.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
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    Jun. 30, 2011
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    This bill simply puts the spotlight on the rara's and they don't like it. They would rather have a chance to take many, many photos and lots of video and then claim the abuse was happening for months or years. Most of the photo/video reports were never real to begin with. Just flunky actors working for the rara's who photograph each other after lying to the farm, slaughterhouse, etc, to get hired.
    If there really is some form of abuse, this bill will nip it in the bud. That way, something can be handled and ended within a few hours, rather than drag it out for months/years. But, that would deprive the rara's of the all-important tear jerker photo/video they use to raise money on late night tv. You see, their motivation is the all mighty buck, not the heath/welfare of the animals. Funny that all the links our local posters have listed are provided by the rara group 'humane tennessee PAC' What a sad, slanted view of decent legislation!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
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    I find it interesting that there are a couple of posters who only come on to COTH to: promote slaughter, criticize HSUS, PETA, DEFHR and Gentle Giants, and complain about any Arabian horse seizure.

    By the way 7arabians, looks like DEFHR has some nice Polish Arabians for adoption...why don't you put in an application?

    Here's an article from the Journal Star. http://journalstar.com/business/agri...fd7d660c8.html

    I care about how my food is processed. I'm not OK with this:

    "In November, the U.S. Humane Society of the United States announced a settlement in its lawsuit against another California processing company, Westland/Hallmark Meat Co. The group filed a federal lawsuit in 2009, after releasing another undercover video that showed "downer cows" — those too weak or sick to walk — being dragged by chains, rammed by forklifts and sprayed with high-pressure water by employees who wanted them to stand and walk to slaughter.
    The video sparked a recall of 143 million pounds of beef, including 37 million pounds that had gone to school lunch programs. The recall cost taxpayers $150 million."
    Join the Clinton 2016 campaign...Hillary For America. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/


    5 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19

    Default

    I support the bill as it stands.
    Abuse strung out (or created for)for the sole opportunity of up loading an incendiary film to you tube is wrong.


    Tamara in TN
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
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    Aug. 25, 2007
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    All y'all who are so het up about this ought to read the bloody legislation.

    Here's the first one:

    http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/108/Bill/SB1248.pdf

    Please show me the language here that makes anyone a "criminal." Or even imposes a restriction on the use of the material if it's turned in more than 24 hours after being taken! The first rule of statutory interpretation is READ THE STATUTE!!!!! Then after we learn what is says we can discuss what it means. You don't have to be a Harvard Law grad to figure this one out!!!!!

    The second one is here:

    http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/107/Bill/HB3620.pdf

    Again, READ WHAT THE STATUTE SAYS!!!!! It doesn't begin to say what the detractors claim.

    The ability to read is a wonderful thing; too bad so many got out school without learning.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    2 members found this post helpful.

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