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  1. #21
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    Jun. 7, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    ok, i want to get clear on one thing since i am now getting PMs. The guy took a free horse. it was given to him - since that is the case he has every right to do as he pleases with HIS horse. If the prior owners were concerned they should of had a contract that stipulated that they wanted first right of refusal.

    Once you give up ownership you give up any rights to control of the horse. the law is on the guys side. whether we like it or not. bashing him is just bad manners.


    the prior owners should of thought more before handing the horse over to stranger without a buy back contract in place - and in fact if the prior owners were so concerned they should not of sold/given away the horse - they should of kept it or leased it.

    as for FB - i dont post much there anyway and nothing that cant be "out there" it just never occurred to me people would do something like that - but having been on coth all these years i should of known
    Not really.

    If it is OBVIOUSLY a material consideration of the seller's that the horse get a good home, such that you know that the seller would not sell to you if you told them your true intentions, it is not acting in good faith to take a horse under promises of "trail riding home" and then sell to auction less than two weeks later. The promises of "trail riding home" are PART of the consideration/sale price for the horse. You can induce a buyer to lower their price if the promise of "trail riding home" is more important to them than the money they could get selling to a lesson barn down the road. Legally if they lowered their cash price to you because of the promise you made, you owe them the difference. Just because it is difficult to enforce doesn't mean you don't bear legal responsibility for making someone change their bargaining position based on your lie.


    Just because it is difficult to ENFORCE legally without written documentation, does not mean it is perfectly within everyone's rights to outright lie to seller to get them to sell you a horse. What is hard about this?!

    And aside from the fact that when promises become part of the "consideration" in a horse deal, there is both moral and legal (even if difficult to enforce) weight to them, I get a little tired of everyone bending over backwards to justify and explain away the absolute lowest common denominator of behavior.

    Jesus. It is WRONG to lie to people in order to get them to sell you a horse they would not otherwise sell you if they knew the truth.


    37 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr. 9, 2012
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    NYC=center of the universe
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    If the details are true and complete, then obviously he handled this in an unethical manner. We don't really know the trainer's side. Clearly if he didn't want to keep the horse, he should have contacted the prior owners to offer the horse back. The post implies that didn't happen, though we cannot be sure.

    The prior owners could have done more to protect this horse, but frankly it sounds as if they had enough to worry about.

    Edit: just saw meup's post. Yep, agreed 110%!!
    Born under a rock and owned by beasts!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2008
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    Delaware Valley
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    1,538

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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Jesus. It is WRONG to lie to people in order to get them to sell you a horse they would not otherwise sell you if they knew the truth.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    also, i find it disturbing (but wish i had thought of it sooner!) that someone can take a private/friends only FB post and do a screen shot and then post it publicly.
    I think you are confused.This appeared several times on my Facebook feed, and I'm not a friend of anyone involved. It was shared widely, and I do believe that was the intent.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan. 7, 2001
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    Usually too far from the barn
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    If he was given the horse, I guess he did have the "rite" (as stated in the quote of his email) to send the horse to an auction. That said, as meup states, part of the reason for the transfer of ownership to this man was that the original owner thought he'd be safe and well looked after by someone involved with high end show horses.

    Racing folks have faced this for years. Keeping a horse on track is expensive and sometimes owners need to cut their losses so they give horses away. About a year and a half ago there was that situation with the girl in SEPA who was an active show participant and trainer/instructor who was using her "legit" business as a means of assuaging concerned track owners/trainers fears. She'd show them photos of her jumping 3' at a show on an OTTB and tell them that their horse will be given all the time he needs and will be brought along slowly until he finds his niche. If the horse was sore, he'd be in a killpen in about a week.
    F O.B
    Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
    Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
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    Nov. 4, 2011
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    96

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    Brandon Clinton needed a trail horse?!? Please. Any trainer has access to horses they can trail ride. Sounds like Brandon needed cash.


    22 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
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    Jun. 30, 2009
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    6,440

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    as for FB - i dont post much there anyway and nothing that cant be "out there" it just never occurred to me people would do something like that - but having been on coth all these years i should of known
    Do What
    it's a public page from a Horsemen's Association ...
    Perhaps try reading for comprehension before accusing others of the unethical behaviour - actually I can't imagine why you would object about borrowing a facebook screenshot when you have no objection to someone offering a "good home" to a horse & then sending it off to a kill auction within a few days ...

    If you actually read the statements, it is a fairly straight forward account of the events - no hyperbole, no vilifying of the person involved ...


    11 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2006
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    The rocky part of KY
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    I love you Meup. Totally agree. If I give a horse to someone in lieu of payment that's one thing, if I give them the horse at no charge for their use, that's another.

    AND It's quite easy to screen grab any pic you post, even Facebook or Photobucket. I did an experiment last summer to see just how hard it is to post a decent picture for say, a CL ad, and some Cother's screen grabbed it and worked on it in a couple of online sites while I worked on it in Paint. I was surprised how easy it was for them to import it, and also how hard it was to get a decent original in the first place.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
    Incredible Invisible


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2000
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    Full time in Delhi, NY!
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    6,394

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    And again, the age old CoTH refrain GET IT IN WRITING. In this case, the sellers should have stipulated in the bill of sale that the horse was being given to the trainer only because he promised a trail riding home and there was no intention to resell the horse. If the horse needed to be rehomed at a later date, trainer PROMISES to contact seller.

    This way if the horse gets flipped, the sellers have proof of breach of promise.

    Now, looking at it from the trainer's jaded sociopathic viewpoint, he probably thinks he was doing the owners a favor by taking the horse off their hands and keeping them from having to make the decision to PTS.

    Not all professionals are sociopathic, but they MUST be realists, and there are very few professionals who will turn down making a buck somewhere. A professional looking at "Murray" with his locking stifles and bucking is not seeing a wide range of potential buyers for him. A professional might use his/her professional judgement to decide that euthing was the best choice for a particular animal. And rather than spending their own dime for it, they MAKE money by sending them to auction.

    I personally would not give this guy my business. He's a proven liar.
    ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
    Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

    "Life is merrier with a terrier!"


    4 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun. 3, 2012
    Location
    Louisa County, Virginia
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    285

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    The guy took a free horse. it was given to him - since that is the case he has every right to do as he pleases with HIS horse.
    Once you give up ownership you give up any rights to control of the horse. the law is on the guys side. whether we like it or not. bashing him is just bad manners.
    mbm, I very respectfully disagree with your comment about bad manners. Taking in a free horse just to turn it around to Camelot for a little $ is perfectly legal, but if he misled the previous owners about his intentions, it's still a crappy thing to do.

    "The law is not a ceiling of good behavior we require people to rise up to; it is a floor of minimally acceptable behavior beneath which we do not permit them to fall."


    11 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Upstate NY
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    Very sad that people are so willing to scam others like this.

    Of course it is his horse and he has a right to do with it as he chooses. What he did that was wrong is promise something he clearly had no intentions of doing to get the people to decide to give him (versus someone else) the horse.

    Clearly a case of too good to be true.
    So frustrating.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jun. 26, 2012
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    645

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    ok, i want to get clear on one thing since i am now getting PMs. The guy took a free horse. it was given to him - since that is the case he has every right to do as he pleases with HIS horse. If the prior owners were concerned they should of had a contract that stipulated that they wanted first right of refusal.

    Once you give up ownership you give up any rights to control of the horse. the law is on the guys side. whether we like it or not. bashing him is just bad manners.


    the prior owners should of thought more before handing the horse over to stranger without a buy back contract in place - and in fact if the prior owners were so concerned they should not of sold/given away the horse - they should of kept it or leased it.

    as for FB - i dont post much there anyway and nothing that cant be "out there" it just never occurred to me people would do something like that - but having been on coth all these years i should of known
    I'm sorry, but I have to correct this. should HAVE****


    9 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2007
    Location
    NY State
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    363

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    I got the same public post on my facebook. I didn't get the impression that it was supposed to be a private post. I shared it as well...

    Quote Originally Posted by Midge View Post
    The trainer named is Brandon Clinton. The link I posted was from a public page.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2009
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    Wisconsin
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    Well, is it crappy that he took the horse to auction? Yes. Illegal? Nope. Does it make him a person to not have train your horse? IMO that wouldn't effect me sending him a horse or not if he is a good trainer.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
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    Aug. 5, 2007
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    Jersey girl!
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    I have met him, and am not surprised in the least. He is a wannabe, and seemed pretty clueless when I watched some of his "lessons". Big on draw reins and other gadgets, small on horsemanship. Lucky for us, he no longer comes to our barn, but trains out of Anjelhart now.
    Celtic Charisma (R.I.P) ~ http://flickr.com/photos/rockandracehorses/2387275281
    Proud owner of "The Intoxicated Moose!"
    "Hope is not an executable plan" ~ My Mom
    I love my Dublin-ator


    7 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
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    Nov. 8, 2000
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    Upper Bucks County, PA
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    I cannot see how anyone can defend his actions.

    He took a horse that was "offered free to a good home" and told the owners (who had come upon hard times due to health) that the horse would be used as his personal trail riding horse. Then, less than 2 weeks later, he's selling it at Camelot Auction.

    Do you think if he'd gone to the owners and told them that he intended to resell the horse at auction that they would have given him the horse? And who knows--perhaps they did have a contract.

    No matters what "rites" (his spelling) he had at as an owner, this shows an obvious lack of ethics, honesty, and horsemanship. These type of people should be outed and I have no respect for anyone who does business with them.

    In my world, the welfare of the horse trumps the rights of the owner.

    The only way we stop these type of people is to give others a heads up so it doesn't happen to other horses. Unfortunately, I've heard of this situation happening quite a bit.

    Here's his website: http://www.bclintonsporthorses.com/
    Kelly Soldavin Harvest Moon Farm
    www.harvestmoonfarmpa.com


    12 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    Jul. 2, 2003
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    Woodland, Ca
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    I know of a big name California trainer who used to do this all the time, comete with bringong his kids out to try the horse... I believe he just had an equipment trailer go missing...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
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    Oct. 12, 2005
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    Va
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    Anyway you look at it this is fraud by definition.



  18. #38
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    Nov. 17, 2006
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    3,699

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    And the sad thing is (well, lots of sad things, but...) the original owner said they looked for the best situation for this horse, and thought they picked the right one. They could have chosen someone else on the list. They certainly didn't just dump the horse to the first one knocking on their door. I think it's just terrible.
    Last edited by ParadoxFarm; Mar. 25, 2013 at 04:50 PM. Reason: Not OP, but original owner.
    “Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.”
    ¯ Oscar Wilde


    5 members found this post helpful.

  19. #39
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    Oct. 3, 2007
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    PA
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    I've seen him at some shows - I wasn't impressed and I sure wouldn't send anything to him for training.

    People have the right to do as they choose with their horses but to willfully deceive people already experiencing turmoil is reprehensible.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  20. #40
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    May. 6, 2006
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    rapidan,virginia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couture TB View Post
    Well, is it crappy that he took the horse to auction? Yes. Illegal? Nope. Does it make him a person to not have train your horse? IMO that wouldn't effect me sending him a horse or not if he is a good trainer.
    Really??!! This would make me seriously wonder if I was getting the training I was paying for. Not to mention if other unethical practices might be happening to my horse, if it were in his training program. Most people with moral deficiencies spread their failings across the board.
    "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
    Rainy: http://tinyurl.com/kj7x53c
    Stash: http://tinyurl.com/mmm3p4e


    22 members found this post helpful.

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