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  1. #1
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    Default Hmmm. Jumping position observation

    I'm committing a cardinal sin here, hopefully I'll be forgiven. This is based ONLY on photographs I've seen recently, I've not been to watch any upper level events and have seen only a few videos. And I'm not an equitation expert, by any means. But I have the impression that the upper level guys who have adopted the more upright galloping position seem to be losing their form over the jumps. I noticed one rider who I otherwise admire, who looked a little like me, back in my pre-training days, over a few jumps. And there's a pic on the cover of a national publication recently that I thought was, well, embarrassing, given that the sport isn't water-skiing.

    Anyone else who is watching this in real life see the same thing? Or, hopefully, not? I'm truly hoping it's just unfortunate coincidence.
    "One person's cowboy is another person's blooming idiot" -- katarine

    Spay and neuter. Please.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
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    Well, despite what GM would have us believe, I don't think photos always tell the whole story about a rider. Especially on XC, where there are so many factors that could lead to an ugly jump. I've decided that equitation is important, definitely, but for some superhuman riders, they seem to just transcend classicism. They are the top of the game without looking perfect all the time. I prefer to watch the prettier riders (Will Coleman, Stephen Bradley and Kim Severson come to mind) but if someone is consistently getting around advanced safely and competitively, well, I'm not going to worry too much about their cowboy style.


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  3. #3
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    Default

    What pictures are drawing these conclusions?
    "Passion, though a bad regulator, is a powerful spring." -- Emerson
    www.eventhorse.wordpress.com



  4. #4
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    Default

    I'm not going to point to particular pictures, because it is true that any picture IS just a moment in time, and there are lots of variables in any one jump. But there have been enough recently that make me go "hmmm" and I'm just curious if anyone else has had this reaction.

    And it isn't any kind of conclusion, just an impression .
    "One person's cowboy is another person's blooming idiot" -- katarine

    Spay and neuter. Please.



  5. #5
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    Monsterpony-Are you referring to the position that resembles the old timey steeplechase prints ?

    I will have to admit it makes me wonder too.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.



  6. #6
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    Default

    Do you mean having a slightly "roached" back over a fence instead of the "equitation" position of the back slightly hollow? The "roach" enables you to thrust your hips forward for security, something quite impossible with the pretty-pretty seat. By the same token, a lot of eventers will be riding a tad "behind the motion" to support a horse at a stiff fence and possibly iffy footing, and probably releasing out of hand rather than the "praying mantis" crest release you see in Big Eq. classes. Form follows function, and a lot of what is seen in the show ring today is NOT terribly functional if you were XC over natural terrain.


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  7. #7
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    Lady Eboshi--those are not the kinds of issues I'm talking about. I know the difference between the issues of riding cross country and show ring posing. Perhaps I should not have mentioned the word "equitation" but I meant it in a much broader sense than just looking pretty.

    I'm really not trying to provoke any kind of argument. This is just an impression I've had recently that could well be entirely inaccurate. I'm just wondering if anyone else has had the same little question pop up in the back of their mind.
    "One person's cowboy is another person's blooming idiot" -- katarine

    Spay and neuter. Please.



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by monstrpony View Post
    Lady Eboshi--those are not the kinds of issues I'm talking about. I know the difference between the issues of riding cross country and show ring posing. Perhaps I should not have mentioned the word "equitation" but I meant it in a much broader sense than just looking pretty.

    I'm really not trying to provoke any kind of argument. This is just an impression I've had recently that could well be entirely inaccurate. I'm just wondering if anyone else has had the same little question pop up in the back of their mind.
    I'm not sure what your question is, then. Is there some trainer or acquaintence who's giving you a hard time about your riding style? If you're getting around most courses clear and not feeling insecure doing it, there's probably not a thing to worry about!



  9. #9
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    Default

    I think I know the position she's talking about and I've noticed it most at tables but I haven't spent a lot of time looking at old photos to see if it's new or if it's how a lot of riders have always ridden tables. It's not just the more upright riders either, there have been pictures of several more traditional galloping style riders who are also pretty far back over certain tables.



  10. #10
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    Default

    Didn't Jimmy Wofford address the issue of position in the last Practical Horseman. I remember that he brought up the issue of the current position "trend," and how it was counterintuitive, IRRC.



  11. #11
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    This has nothing to do with my own riding, I haven't jumped in close to 20 years, LOL.

    I know that there are some top level event riders who are adopting a style of galloping position that is more upright, with a straighter leg. I've noticed a few pictures lately of some of those riders over jumps, and their position over jumps sometimes looks to me to be less secure, a bit left back, more so than just a defensive behind-the-motion position, with what looks to me like a loss of security in their lower leg, and a bit of balancing on the reins. My only question is whether or not anyone else has noticed this, or if it is just coincidental for me. I'm not trying to argue for or against one position or the other, I know there has been some discussion in the magazines about this, but I'm not riding at that level so I have no input on that. But it does concern me that a consequence of this position may mean a loss of ability to be sympathetic to the horse when it is in the act of jumping.

    It would appear that no one else has noticed this, so I don't suppose it's worth continuing the discussion. I'm honestly glad that is the case.
    "One person's cowboy is another person's blooming idiot" -- katarine

    Spay and neuter. Please.


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  12. #12
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    It would appear that no one else has noticed this, so I don't suppose it's worth continuing the discussion. I'm honestly glad that is the case.[/QUOTE]

    That's not true. My post above said that I've noticed what you're talking about in many photos. I even know exactly what picture you're talking about. And I'm saying that it's not just the upright gallopers and I don't think it has anything do do with galloping position. I suspect it has more to do with how the horse is coming into the particular fence and the type of jump. While they may look a little less secure in the air, they're more secure on take off and landing in that position which is what I'm assuming is the goal.
    I don't like the upright galloping because I think it helps the rider at the expense of the horse but I don't think you can pin some defensive looking jump shots on it too.



  13. #13
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    http://kaboomeventing.com/
    http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
    Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!


    4 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
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    hehehehee

    oooo! or like this?
    (sorry MT, couldn't help but put this one up, please forgive)
    http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5143/5...3b296371_z.jpg
    http://kaboomeventing.com/
    http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
    Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!


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  15. #15
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    Default

    I saw a picture of Philip the other day and thought... egads!
    Works for him, but his lower leg was wayyyy behind him.
    Of course, i should ride so bad.



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplnurpl View Post
    hehehehee

    oooo! or like this?
    (sorry MT, couldn't help but put this one up, please forgive)
    http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5143/5...3b296371_z.jpg
    Heh heh . . . wouldn't mind adopting THAT.

    Sorry, outside voice again?
    "Drawing on my fine command of the English language, I said nothing" - Robert Benchley
    Cotton would fight.
    http://buildingthegrove.blogspot.com/


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  17. #17
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    Default

    ooo! here I am looking around for a photo to show what the OP is talking about...
    (I think I have an idea of what I'm looking for since she mentioned water skiing)
    Stupid me! I have one in my bloopers album.
    lemme go get it..

    okay, so maybe are you talking about a leg position like this?
    http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...pseb53c060.jpg
    but of course with the upper body in the correct position?

    My pic is a terrible moment. The horse tap danced in front of the jump and I sat down, then he launched--I grabbed what little mane I could. That's my excuse.

    As for folks that jump like that and DON'T think it belongs in a blooper album..
    welp.

    That's just bad equ and I feel sorry for the horse.
    http://kaboomeventing.com/
    http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
    Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!



  18. #18
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    She's got, by gosh she's got it!!!


    However the arms need to be a little more relaxed to be accurate, and the upper body back a little.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.



  19. #19
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    Default

    Monstrpony. I believe I know what you are talking about and its had me go oy veh more than once. I believe I know a particular offender too. Although, I did see a photo recently of a pretty good rider and she was caught the same way. Are you referring to the leg being way out in front of the seat, but with a bent knee? So not exactly the old hunting seat with the leg forward but braced in the stirrups, and the leg straight, like one would ride a drop.
    I do not know where this "look" comes from, but chalked it up to tired rider.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
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    Can someone post a concrete example of what the OP is talking about? If it is, in fact, multiple "bigger name" riders, I don't see a problem with questioning or analyzing their style. These riders are used to being in the spotlight and should be used as examples of different forms, what works for some, what works for others, etc.
    There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the
    inside of a man.

    -Sir Winston Churchill


    1 members found this post helpful.

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