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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by uphill View Post
    JSwan - and all this time I thought you were JSwan from FL who runs a 501(c) 3 rescue. no?? you do not state where you hail from.
    That confusion has happened a couple of times before; evidently there is a nice lady named Jennifer Swan who is active in equine rescue in Florida. From what I understand she does tremendous work. I'd like to meet her one day.

    We are not related as far as I know, and the last time I was in Florida was for a space shuttle launch. And no, I am not an astronaut.

    I do support animal welfare efforts; mostly locally.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    If the guy gets harassed or a bunch of crap from people like you who ridicule what he's doing - he'll stop.

    Which means those horses will go to slaughter.

    This isn't some game, and I am appalled you find this entertaining. It's not a game show.

    If those horses are not sold they will die.

    Go ahead and laugh and get your jollies if you like.
    It's the CBER model- "The TRUCK IS COMING!!!"
    Buying a horse from him saves THAT horse. Another one just takes his place. It doesn't reduce the number slaughtered by 1, if you buy one. But if he has a horse someone likes, and you think the price is fair, then buy it.



  3. #43
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    Okay, after a fun day with a wide variety of family members, I'm too tired to wade through some links. Going on the posts here, I'm not sure what the kerfluffle is about. I know some KB's personally and not one try to hide what they do. Anyone is welcome to show up in their driveways and buy a horse at his price. I have bought from one in particular in the past decade. But, the 'excess' horses, they will be shipped to the plant if no one buys them in person. There isn't any middleman as far as I'm aware. All are businessmen in pursuit of a profit. They feed well, hay is always out for the horses or they are on pasture which will support them.

    So, I really don't see what the big to-do is.
    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!



  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Buying a horse from him saves THAT horse. Another one just takes his place.
    If that is the case then why bother rescuing horses at all. Or dog rescue. OR cat rescue or any other species rescue.

    I'll pull dogs out of a shelter knowing that next week that shelter may be full again. It does not stop me from pulling the dogs - because the dogs that will come in afterwards will now have extra time to be adopted. They may still die, while the dogs I pulled eventually get adopted through the rescue. But we can't save them all. And that is the first lesson of rescue. The one that hopefully keeps a person from going crazy.

    The CBER model was fraudulent. It abused a charitable status in a tax avoidance scheme.

    This guy is a KB who just gives a few of them one last chance. And he's selling them pretty cheap - they're not hostages.

    As laurierace says, this is as close to rescue as you can get. After that it's a one way trip with no stops.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling


    5 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
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    Oh, and I wanted to add to my above post. The KB's I know, especially the one I mentioned in particular, their prices are fair depending on the horse. They sort through the horses, get them ridden and checked out. I've found they tell the truth about the horses to best of their ability. It being horses, there is always something a horse does that maybe the KB or their riders didn't catch or see, but that's horse buying anyway. I've had sold horses which never did anything wrong with my kids, buck someone off, twice no less! Same thing here. But for the most part, most KB's are gruff and to the point. There isn't any emotional blackmail and whining. You either like and buy the horse, or you don't. Simple as that.
    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    If that is the case then why bother rescuing horses at all. Or dog rescue. OR cat rescue or any other species rescue.

    I'll pull dogs out of a shelter knowing that next week that shelter may be full again. It does not stop me from pulling the dogs - because the dogs that will come in afterwards will now have extra time to be adopted. They may still die, while the dogs I pulled eventually get adopted through the rescue. But we can't save them all. And that is the first lesson of rescue. The one that hopefully keeps a person from going crazy.

    The CBER model was fraudulent. It abused a charitable status in a tax avoidance scheme.

    This guy is a KB who just gives a few of them one last chance. And he's selling them pretty cheap - they're not hostages.

    As laurierace says, this is as close to rescue as you can get. After that it's a one way trip with no stops.
    ah, but you don't understand:
    By virtue of his selling to the plant he
    a) must give away the horses for free
    b) kill and bury the rest on his property and eat all the losses so
    c) he goes belly up

    devil may care that he is a valuable link in the industry for those who neither want nor need the 5 figure steed

    or that he is in the position to select the ones that could have another use someplace else, better than a steak dinner.

    I take it your tractor is still broken....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.


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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    If that is the case then why bother rescuing horses at all. Or dog rescue. OR cat rescue or any other species rescue.

    I'll pull dogs out of a shelter knowing that next week that shelter may be full again. It does not stop me from pulling the dogs - because the dogs that will come in afterwards will now have extra time to be adopted. They may still die, while the dogs I pulled eventually get adopted through the rescue. But we can't save them all. And that is the first lesson of rescue. The one that hopefully keeps a person from going crazy.

    The CBER model was fraudulent. It abused a charitable status in a tax avoidance scheme.

    This guy is a KB who just gives a few of them one last chance. And he's selling them pretty cheap - they're not hostages.

    As laurierace says, this is as close to rescue as you can get. After that it's a one way trip with no stops.
    Getting a rescue dog from a shelter opens up a spot for another to be saved. There is no quota of dogs that must be killed each week. They only kill to open up space as needed. The number of horses slaughtered has nothing to do with how many horses there are or how many people want to get rid of theirs. It is solely dependent on how many they need to kill to meet the demand for horsemeat. Just because someone were to buy 500 horses from auction kill pens, it doesn't mean 500 fewer horses would be slaughtered. It just means THOSE 500 won't be, but a different 500 would take their place. Not so, at a dog shelter. Getting 500 from there opens up space so fewer dogs would be killed, since they don't kill to meet a quota.
    Getting a horse from a rescue, opens up space at the rescue for them to "save" one more, but it saves THAT horse. It doesn't mean that the SH's slaughter one less horse, because they still have to meet the quotas to satisfy the buyers of horsemeat products. The faces just change.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    ah, but you don't understand:
    By virtue of his selling to the plant he
    a) must give away the horses for free
    b) kill and bury the rest on his property and eat all the losses so
    c) he goes belly up

    devil may care that he is a valuable link in the industry for those who neither want nor need the 5 figure steed

    or that he is in the position to select the ones that could have another use someplace else, better than a steak dinner.

    I take it your tractor is still broken....
    We used to say killer buyers were those horse's last chance, not that killer buyers were the devil incarnate, as animal rights extremist have been painting them.

    Those are traders that give so many camps and schools the horses they have, that they find for them.
    That some horses are ending in slaughter is part of what they do, not that they are running around trying to kill all and any horse they can get their hands on.

    Some of those are better people than some that want to make them evil.
    There is evil in all people do, in rescue from all places also.


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  9. #49
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    It never is about the horse

    It is about control

    Therefore Jetsmom and others like her don't celebrate the one saved.

    They don't care

    The PETA ladies didn't care about the injured horses at Fort MacLeod when they threw firecrackers at them causing them to panic.


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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    We used to say killer buyers were those horse's last chance, not that killer buyers were the devil incarnate, as animal rights extremist have been painting them.

    Those are traders that give so many camps and schools the horses they have, that they find for them.
    That some horses are ending in slaughter is part of what they do, not that they are running around trying to kill all and any horse they can get their hands on.

    Some of those are better people than some that want to make them evil.
    There is evil in all people do, in rescue from all places also.
    it is really hard to really be the evil as they are made out to be...

    You have to be a cannibalistic serial killer to come close....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  11. #51
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    Are the people on this BB *that* damned inexperienced in a subject they argue about extensively that they do NOT realize that 90% of all meat buyers do the same damn thing?

    They buy the animals other people dump. They evaluate, do a bit of work and polish and feeding if needed and market those that are marketable.
    IOW they do what the previous owners wouldn't or couldn't do. No different than the owner marketing it or it will go to auction.
    Or a rescue marketing it or it will go for meat.
    Or putting it on CL or it will go to auction.


    And by some of the "logic" on here...don't get any pound puppies or kitties either...another one will just take it's place.

    I swear I've seen better heads on a cabbage....ignorance and emotion must be in season.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte


    5 members found this post helpful.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistyBlue View Post
    Are the people on this BB *that* damned inexperienced in a subject they argue about extensively that they do NOT realize that 90% of all meat buyers do the same damn thing?

    They buy the animals other people dump. They evaluate, do a bit of work and polish and feeding if needed and market those that are marketable.
    IOW they do what the previous owners wouldn't or couldn't do. No different than the owner marketing it or it will go to auction.
    Or a rescue marketing it or it will go for meat.
    Or putting it on CL or it will go to auction.


    And by some of the "logic" on here...don't get any pound puppies or kitties either...another one will just take it's place.

    I swear I've seen better heads on a cabbage....ignorance and emotion must be in season.
    roflmao


    it is fullmoon or there's about.

    MS ate my handy desktop gadget that helped me track it.....but yeah, it's lunacy...

    but probably all dealers in low end horse flesh do that. a using horse is worth more to them....it would be stupid to just send it on.

    But then again...I suppose a few have been burned by the public and have since stopped dealing with them...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    roflmao


    it is fullmoon or there's about.

    MS ate my handy desktop gadget that helped me track it.....but yeah, it's lunacy...

    but probably all dealers in low end horse flesh do that. a using horse is worth more to them....it would be stupid to just send it on.

    But then again...I suppose a few have been burned by the public and have since stopped dealing with them...
    Lunacy it is, for animal rights extremists to come with their clearly senseless attacks to a horse using, training and discussing forum and not expect to be called on it.

    Many years ago, I was a moderator in a dog training forum.
    We could smell those the first posts trolling around and summarily dismissed them.
    In those days, you could trace their origin and name and one of the crazier ones, that kept coming on with a different name from a different computer was, would you know it, an attorney for the ASPCA, living in NYC itself.

    There are all kinds of crazy out there, really.



  14. #54
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    There are a few KB in our area that do that. They take the horses home, evaluate them, sell the good ones and ship the bad. I have more respect for them then the ones on FB that don't do any evaluation of soundness, training, and temperament. That just feed off the frenzy of the truck is coming quick over pay for this horse and then pay to ship it and have it end up in a home that wasn't prepared for an unknown history horse.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #55
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    It creates the possibility that another could be saved.
    There is no quota, but there is limited space - and often policy that surrendered dogs are subject to immediate euthanasia.

    We cannot save them all - we must pick and choose; consigning one to death and others to life or the possibility of life.

    But we do it anyway. Even though our actions may or may not actually end up giving more time to the animals left behind.

    Equine rescue is really no different; and though this person is not motivated by charitable intent his actions are no less useful. Those horses are not just faces - they are individual lives. Yes, next week there will be other horses, and he'll try and sell some of those horses too.

    I just see no down side to this. None at all. Sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Getting a rescue dog from a shelter opens up a spot for another to be saved. There is no quota of dogs that must be killed each week. They only kill to open up space as needed. The number of horses slaughtered has nothing to do with how many horses there are or how many people want to get rid of theirs. It is solely dependent on how many they need to kill to meet the demand for horsemeat. Just because someone were to buy 500 horses from auction kill pens, it doesn't mean 500 fewer horses would be slaughtered. It just means THOSE 500 won't be, but a different 500 would take their place. Not so, at a dog shelter. Getting 500 from there opens up space so fewer dogs would be killed, since they don't kill to meet a quota.
    Getting a horse from a rescue, opens up space at the rescue for them to "save" one more, but it saves THAT horse. It doesn't mean that the SH's slaughter one less horse, because they still have to meet the quotas to satisfy the buyers of horsemeat products. The faces just change.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    That confusion has happened a couple of times before; evidently there is a nice lady named Jennifer Swan who is active in equine rescue in Florida. From what I understand she does tremendous work. I'd like to meet her one day.

    We are not related as far as I know, and the last time I was in Florida was for a space shuttle launch. And no, I am not an astronaut.

    I do support animal welfare efforts; mostly locally.
    There is a Jennifer Swanson in FL who runs Pure Thoughts Horse Rescue
    http://purethoughtshorserescue.org/
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    There is a Jennifer Swanson in FL who runs Pure Thoughts Horse Rescue
    http://purethoughtshorserescue.org/
    she actually posted on COTH a time or two.

    I think it had something to do with that nutter down in Fl...the self proclaimed hero of the equines....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    There is a Jennifer Swanson in FL who runs Pure Thoughts Horse Rescue
    http://purethoughtshorserescue.org/
    Yes - that's her! I'm told they do good work and she is well thought of in her community.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    she actually posted on COTH a time or two.

    I think it had something to do with that nutter down in Fl...the self proclaimed hero of the equines....
    Richard "Kudo" Couto?
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"



  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    It creates the possibility that another could be saved.
    There is no quota, but there is limited space - and often policy that surrendered dogs are subject to immediate euthanasia.

    We cannot save them all - we must pick and choose; consigning one to death and others to life or the possibility of life.

    But we do it anyway. Even though our actions may or may not actually end up giving more time to the animals left behind.

    Equine rescue is really no different; and though this person is not motivated by charitable intent his actions are no less useful. Those horses are not just faces - they are individual lives. Yes, next week there will be other horses, and he'll try and sell some of those horses too.

    I just see no down side to this. None at all. Sorry.
    I didn't say I see a downside. But it isn't reducing the number slaughtered as some would suggest. And it does sell horses by playing on people's sympathy..".If you don't buy this horse, he's going to slaughter."
    Equine rescue doesn't send their horses off to slaughter if they aren't adopted in a week. However, equine rescues also don't reduce the number slaughtered. People that are pro slaughter like to say " If you don't want slaughter, then buy up all the horses". I'm making the point that no matter how many horses someone buys/rescues, that as long as there is commercial horse slaughter for human consumption, a certain number of horses will be bought and go to slaughter to meet the quota for the SH. They are not going to say, "Oh, 15000 horses were bought/rescued, so we will only slaughter 85k instead of 100k". No. They will pay a higher price if needed, to get the 100k horses that they need to send the meat overseas, and pass the higher prices on to the consumers.

    Dog/cat rescue is entirely different. Getting a shelter pet will reduce the number a shelter has, and free up space for other needy pets, and often buy more time for the ones left there, since they won't get euthed due to lack of space.

    But I'm still not saying he is doing a bad thing. But it isn't reducing the number slaughtered. And he isn't a rescue. A rescue wouldn't send them to slaughter if not purchased.


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