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  1. #21
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    Hunh- I've never thought about it. Mine are floated and then I ride, or I leave because I rode before the dentist came out. Same thing with shoeing. Unless the dentist had to do something with sedation (which my current two do not need- last one did, because he was an ass), I think I'd get a new dentist if my horses were uncomfortable afterward.

    But, mine have good teeth and, now that my baby is past his baby teeth stage and almost five, they don't need much work. My former guy, the ass, had terrible hooks in back that grew very rapidly. He needed to be seen more often and sedated to get them down. He got the day off, although I usually rode before if I could because anything to get him less zippy was welcome!
    You can take a line and say it isn't straight- but that won't change its shape. Jets to Brazil



  2. #22
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    Nov. 22, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    None, and you?
    None. The the guy who floats my horses teeth IS "that guy." If its alright with you, I'll defer to his results.

    It only took one bad experience with power tools, sedation, lights, and somebody with a bunch of letters after their name for me to do some homework and a little scientific "questioning authority" for me to figure it out.

    Gotta wonder how horses ever got a decent float in the last few hundred years before all these powered weapons of tooth destruction technology came along.



  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bloomer View Post
    None. The the guy who floats my horses teeth IS "that guy." If its alright with you, I'll defer to his results.

    It only took one bad experience with power tools, sedation, lights, and somebody with a bunch of letters after their name for me to do some homework and a little scientific "questioning authority" for me to figure it out.

    Gotta wonder how horses ever got a decent float in the last few hundred years before all these powered weapons of tooth destruction technology came along.
    Ha! Sorry, I have a hard time believing that anyone with upper level horses would let a guy like that touch their horse! Even look at his speculum, its the cheapest one on the market!

    We now know that horses didn't get good floats using old methods. Times have changed. Would hate to see your mouth if you still had the care that human teeth had a few hundred years ago. But to each their own if they want to live in the old world,


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    Ha! Sorry, I have a hard time believing that anyone with upper level horses would let a guy like that touch their horse!
    I don't have a hard time believing your name isn't Phyllis Wyeth.



  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bloomer View Post
    I don't have a hard time believing your name isn't Phyllis Wyeth.
    Gee thanks! I see your floater must be related to Helen Keller....



  6. #26
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    Nov. 22, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    . . .We now know that horses didn't get good floats using old methods.
    "We" have no data to support that claim.

    Times have changed.
    Indeed. Now instead of serving a 2 year apprenticeship followed by an 8 year journeymanship, one becomes a skilled master by virtue of the political power of the veterinary license and the purchase of powered rotary tools.

    Would hate to see your mouth if you still had the care that human teeth had a few hundred years ago. But to each their own if they want to live in the old world,
    Fortunately human medical doctors cannot usurp political power over human dentists or legally take up human dentistry without first obtaining the appropriate credentials.

    Whereas veterinarians have (in some states) created a double standard where the law considers all vets competent dentists regardless of education and experience and non-vets( if the law permits) must pass certain examinations to qualify or must work under veterinary supervision. This is as logical as a law that says your family doctor is automatically qualified by law as a human dentist or that human dentists must practice under the supervision of an MD. And them having the MD's make the claim that they are bringing dentistry out of the dark ages.


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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bloomer View Post
    "We" have no data to support that claim.

    Indeed. Now instead of serving a 2 year apprenticeship followed by an 8 year journeymanship, one becomes a skilled master by virtue of the political power of the veterinary license and the purchase of powered rotary tools.

    Fortunately human medical doctors cannot usurp political power over human dentists or legally take up human dentistry without first obtaining the appropriate credentials.

    Whereas veterinarians have (in some states) created a double standard where the law considers all vets competent dentists regardless of education and experience and non-vets( if the law permits) must pass certain examinations to qualify or must work under veterinary supervision. This is as logical as a law that says your family doctor is automatically qualified by law as a human dentist or that human dentists must practice under the supervision of an MD. And them having the MD's make the claim that they are bringing dentistry out of the dark ages.
    A little common sense goes a long ways but that seems to be lost in today's world. Common sense in that horses receive MUCH better dental care today, using modern methods. Blindly shoving a file into a horses mouth and calling it a float is a far stretch but some seem to fall for that.

    Your right, I would much rather have someone that is not a professional, that has never had any formal training, that was unemployed and wanted to make an easy buck, buy the cheapest equipment and ram it in the horses mouth! Oh ya, then you pay them!!!

    To each their own but that is certainly why I am for regulation to protect the horses.


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  8. #28
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    May. 4, 2003
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    Guys, guys, guys - honestly - calm down.

    Tom Bloomer sometimes comes across as a bit gruff, but I read his posts because in the past they have made sense to me, especially re the barefoot issues.

    I, personally, am against the certification of horse dentists - mainly because of the gang-up that occurred here with a deliberate campaign to drum a fellow out of business. He left town to go to a different jurisdiction, but left a hole here. The veterinary association basically caused a turf war on a guy who had a very good reputation.

    I don't care for too much interference in my ability to give my own horses the best care I can, and I like the option to make those decisions....rather like raising my own kids, I don't like being told what to do.

    Vets, farriers, dentists, make their living off their reputations.

    In fact, despite the above, I had one horse done by my vet who is a woman who did a very meticulous job using electric tools, and one done by a hand dentist. The woman did the better job judging by the well chewed manure and it lasted the longest. The young horse is one in a hundred that just opens his mouth for the fellow. Two horses, two dental jobs, two different mouths that need to be done. But then I've also had a ham handed job done by a vet, who spends hardly any time doing teeth.
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique



  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    A little common sense goes a long ways
    Indeed. a little common sense - like I wouldn't allow anyone to use power tools in my horses' mouth until they demonstrated that they could safely trim their own toe nails with the same tool.

    My farrier chaps are one of the cheapest on the market. OTOH, my nippers, like the floats used by equine dentist to reach the back of the mouth, are hand crafted instruments capable of surgical precision in skilled hands, and I wouldn't hesitate to use either of them on my toe nails to demonstrate my proficiency with hand tools.


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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bloomer View Post
    Indeed. a little common sense - like I wouldn't allow anyone to use power tools in my horses' mouth until they demonstrated that they could safely trim their own toe nails with the same tool.

    My farrier chaps are one of the cheapest on the market. OTOH, my nippers, like the floats used by equine dentist to reach the back of the mouth, are hand crafted instruments capable of surgical precision in skilled hands, and I wouldn't hesitate to use either of them on my toe nails to demonstrate my proficiency with hand tools.
    You can do fingernails with a powerfloat. I've done it myself as an example, It is EXTREMELY easy. Can you do it with a carbide blade, no. With the diamond blade, yes. Easily.



  11. #31
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    Dec. 18, 2006
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    I think hand floating and power floating can be equally effective (some of the vets at my clinic use power tools and others prefer hand tools); and I also have no issue with a vet/dentist not sedating, so long as he/she can do the job effectively. I don't really understand the *fear* of mild sedation for teeth floating, but whatever; every horse is different and certainly there might be cases where sedation is dangerous. For my horses, I want my vet to be able to see what they need to see, and take their time to do the job right. If sedation makes that easier for them, I trust them to sedate my horse (just like I trust them to sedate my horse to suture or perform other types of emergency care.)

    I don't want my "dentist" to float my horses' teeth without sedation because he/she is not qualified to give sedation.



  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    . . .
    To each their own but that is certainly why I am for regulation to protect the horses.
    I have no problem with regulation if it protects horses. But the FACT is that every state that has regulation for equine dentistry does not apply that regulation to veterinarians. Veterinarians are automatically considered qualified. NO EXCEPTIONS.

    If the regulation was really about protecting the horse instead of protecting the vet's turf and monopolizing a revenue stream, then whatever qualifications were required to float teeth would apply across the board JUST LIKE HUMAN MEDICINE. Your human MD cannot set up shop as a dentist without taking the same training and passing the same tests.

    Before the advent of power floats, the equine dentistry revenue stream was not a viable option for many veterinarians because they just didn't have the time to devote to developing the skills. Shortly after the power tools came along, so did the changes in the law that protect the new potential revenue stream. No coincidence there.


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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    You can do fingernails with a powerfloat. I've done it myself as an example, It is EXTREMELY easy. Can you do it with a carbide blade, no.
    Thank you for making my point.

    And how do you pit it back after you've cut it away with a carbide blade?



  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bloomer View Post
    I have no problem with regulation if it protects horses. But the FACT is that every state that has regulation for equine dentistry does not apply that regulation to veterinarians. Veterinarians are automatically considered qualified. NO EXCEPTIONS.

    If the regulation was really about protecting the horse instead of protecting the vet's turf and monopolizing a revenue stream, then whatever qualifications were required to float teeth would apply across the board JUST LIKE HUMAN MEDICINE. Your human MD cannot set up shop as a dentist without taking the same training and passing the same tests.

    Before the advent of power floats, the equine dentistry revenue stream was not a viable option for many veterinarians because they just didn't have the time to devote to developing the skills. Shortly after the power tools came along, so did the changes in the law that protect the new potential revenue stream. No coincidence there.
    I do get a kick out of it that people seem to think its a big conspiracy that it's about money for vets. That is simply not the case. Well, I'm sure in some parts of the country it could be but there are plenty of horses to go around for everyone. At least vets have training and A LOT of CE opportunities through their lives. But yes, some vets aren't interested in teeth so find a vet that is.



  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bloomer View Post
    Thank you for making my point.

    And how do you pit it back after you've cut it away with a carbide blade?
    Pit? really? You won't make a pit. It's the chatter that makes a nail hard to do on a flimsy fingernail. You just made my point!!!!



  16. #36
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    My vet sedates my horses to power float their teeth. I don't ride them afterward: They get to wake up and go back out in their pasture.



  17. #37
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    Wow never thought this topic would get so heated. Thanks for all the replies.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/NBChoice http://nbchoice.blogspot.com/
    The New Banner's Choice- 1994 ASB Mare
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  18. #38
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    If there are teeth, there will be mullet wearin' women about


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  19. #39
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    Nov. 22, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    I do get a kick out of it that people seem to think its a big conspiracy that it's about money for vets. That is simply not the case.
    Show me ONE STATE where the there is regulation covering equine dentistry that vets are NOT automatically qualified by the same law that prevents non-vets from practicing.

    Well, I'm sure in some parts of the country it could be but there are plenty of horses to go around for everyone. At least vets have training
    Really? So DVM automatically means they are trained in equine dentistry? Who knew? How many credit hours does the AVMA require in equine dentistry for the standard accredited degree program?

    and A LOT of CE opportunities through their lives
    Yep go to a two week tooth floating course and suddenly they are an equine dentistry specialist. No need for an extended internship under the supervision of an experienced practitioner when you're already Doctor God.



  20. #40
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    Nov. 22, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    Pit? really? You won't make a pit. It's the chatter that makes a nail hard to do on a flimsy fingernail. You just made my point!!!!
    You are welcome to point out my typographical errors and also welcome to respond to my challenge to SHOW ME the legislation in ANY STATE that requires vets to meet the same "certification standard" as non-vets. Because without that requirement being applied equally to vets and non-vets the law IS TURF PROTECTION. DVM accreditation does NOT require any training at all in floating teeth.


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