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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toothgrinder View Post
    If the horse can't go back to work immediately after their float then their mouth has been traumatized and the float is a failure. A simple float shouldn't cause soreness or necessitate recovery time. A major shortcoming of visual dentistry is how wide the mouth must be opened. I can slip my hand into a smaller speculum opening than any peekaboo floater doing visual dentistry. Power tools are bigger at the business end and require a wider speculum opening as well. If you spent a lifetime feeling the gentle curves and natural topography of a horses mouth you wouldn't dream of grinding it with a cumbersome powertool.
    The bottom line is there are far too few floaters to care for all the mouths out there yet propagandists like the [edit] will never tire of slandering those of us who aren't DVMs. Whatever backwater it hails from must be sorry place to be a horse.
    This is a perfect example when talking about professionals. There was a good debate going on and then this non professional comes on and starts the name calling and lying. Would a vet come on a public forum and start slinging BS and making things up?

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize how far off base a statement like this is......

    "I can slip my hand into a smaller speculum opening than any peekaboo floater doing visual dentistry."

    HUH? LOL Last I checked I can see with my eyes into places a whole lot smaller then trying to cram my hand in a horses mouth trying to figure out what is going on! Maybe said floater really thinks this but if said floater had actually been to any dental school at all he would realize that is completely false. To claim you can check a horses mouth thoroughly with your hand alone is outrageous and a disservice to the horses who are left with issues in their mouth at the end of a float and the owners are out their money.
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Mar. 24, 2013 at 08:21 PM.



  2. #82
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    My horse does not need sedation for a float and an equine dentist performs the work. And far from just shoving a file in his mouth and rasping willy-nilly he takes his time and feels for points, hooks, tooth plane, etc. He visually inspects for ulceration, pockets, and areas of tartar. His arm is in the horse's mouth up to his elbow. It's a "feel-rasp-feel-rasp-feel" procedure. He also has power tools and can use them, they're just not required for my horse.

    Maybe it's the professionals I happen to work with but I've not seen any animosity between the vets and dentists. If the dentist runs into a problem they can't handle without veterinary intervention they consult the vet. No problem.

    I live near a large, relatively well known thoroughbred training center. The fellow I use as a dentist is on their phone list. If he's good enough to treat the mouths of multi-million dollar race horses, he's good enough for me.

    To answer the OP's original question, if the timing were such that I needed to ride, I would have no qualms about doing so after a float provided the procedure was routine and uneventful.


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  3. #83
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    To answer the OP's question - it depends.

    Years ago I had a horse with a parrot mouth so the vet tranqued and got a version of a skill saw and sawed off the extra tooth length. Then it was hand rasp, dip the rasp into a bucket of water, rinse off the blood, and continue. When he had finished, poor horse had cheeks like a chipmunk. Didn't ride for days.

    I feel I am very fortunate because I have a team of excellent people who all work together with me and my horses. Never sensed any turf war and they all
    bend over backwards to help me anytime I need it.

    I do trust the lady vet who did my horse last time - something about a woman's meticulousness and gentleness and attention to detail -and she used power tools. The manure was perfect!

    My young horse was done by an equine dentist, but judging by the manure, he must have missed something as it still showed coarse bits of hay in it.
    But this one instance does not make me anti-equine dentist, far from it.

    Now here is a real question. A friend had a horse up from Arizona. The vet said his back teeth were so worn down but he could not tell if it was from over-use of power tools, or at a guess, from sand grinding them down.

    Davistina - just asking - do you have any qualifications?
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique



  4. #84
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    I give her the day off because of the sedation.


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  5. #85
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    My vet always feels first. He feels in for issues and will just open their mouth with his hands and a light to check out what he is feeling. Then some sedation, crank their mouth open take a deeper look and feel and then he brings out the power tools. But he does also use a rasp for some spots. Just depends. He checks out everything when the mouth is open and he can feel and see better without my guys moving around as much. The tech he has holds their heads up on her shoulder during the procedure so no stick thing to hold their heads. I've always had great results. The only reason i wait a day is the sedation. I'm not going to ride if my Norse has been doped. Not safe IMO.
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole



  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    This is a perfect example when talking about professionals. There was a good debate going on and then this non professional comes on and starts the name calling and lying. Would a vet come on a public forum and start slinging BS and making things up?
    Really, a good debate. Is slandering a entire group of professionals with incendiary statements like
    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    Blindly shoving a file into a horses mouth and calling it a float is a far stretch but some seem to fall for that.
    a good debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    Your right, I would much rather have someone that is not a professional, that has never had any formal training, that was unemployed and wanted to make an easy buck, buy the cheapest equipment and ram it in the horses mouth! Oh ya, then you pay them!!!
    or
    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    Your right, it's much better to just let anyone pick up a file and ram it in a horses mouth!
    IME, no sedation and hand floats mean a pretty bad job. Add that to the people that don't use a light or speculum and you have a cave man with a sharp tool in there hand pointing it in a dark hole.
    It's very clear where you're coming from. What are your qualifications??


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  7. #87
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    Yes, it was a good debate. You have been good at slandering anyone that uses power tools for years on this forum. As I have said in the past, there are some good equine dentists out there that are none vets. I think they are very few and far between. I can say with confidence that in MHO, blind floating is a waste of time, money, and can leave the horse suffering. Dark hole + tool = Caveman!
    Last edited by davistina67; Mar. 24, 2013 at 04:57 PM.


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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    This is a perfect example when talking about professionals. There was a good debate going on and then this non professional comes on and starts the name calling and lying. Would a vet come on a public forum and start slinging BS and making things up?

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize how far off base a statement like this is......

    "I can slip my hand into a smaller speculum opening than any peekaboo floater doing visual dentistry."

    HUH? LOL Last I checked I can see with my eyes into places a whole lot smaller then trying to cram my hand in a horses mouth trying to figure out what is going on! Maybe said floater really thinks this but if said floater had actually been to any dental school at all he would realize that is completely false. To claim you can check a horses mouth thoroughly with your hand alone is outrageous and a disservice to the horses who are left with issues in their mouth at the end of a float and the owners are out their money.

    Please qualify your description of the poster "toothgrinder" as a non-professional? Frankly he sounds like my equine non-dentist "dentist" who has 30+ years experience dealing with horses' mouths and teeth. No sedation, excellent horse handling skills, shows up with more tools for the horses' mouth than you can fit in a big ol' metal bucket. Takes his time, describes what he sees and feels. So much better than our vet who sedated and then gets his one file out and files away.

    Speaking of non-professionals, what are your qualifications, davinista? Wasn't it you who was allowing (encouraging, certainly not discouraging) people here to think you were a vet? Weren't you the one to claim some absurdity about clover?

    You've been asked a couple of times about your qualifications here on this thread. Well, what are they?
    Quote Originally Posted by alicen View Post
    We have no intentions of tarring and feathering anyone: this is now a thread about dipping Ryan Reynolds in chocolate.


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  9. #89
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    Well, I know MY jaw and gums hurt after a dental visit, so I guess I infer the same issue with my horses.

    I also do think that just being a vet does not make someone a good equine dentist, and that owners need to participate in ensuring that their horse gets good dental care. I like to look at the before and after...make easier by tranq, a light and a speculum.

    I have had four horses come here that had "regular dental work". Some by vets and some by dentists: all looked and felt good at the front, but had huge issues in the back. Three had giant hooks, and the forth just had weirdness with some parts worn to the gums on one side, and sharpness in places...my vet speculates that she had big issues previously that just hadn't been properly addressed and caused wacky wear patterns.

    I do think that in SOME areas, the lack of good vets to do the job does mean that dentists are the better option, but for my area, I think there are great dental vets, so I see no reason to use a non-vet.
    Freeing worms from cans everywhere!


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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    Dark hole + tool = Caveman!
    Dark hole + tool = davistina67 and grinder bickering like children.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carolinadreamin' View Post
    Please qualify your description of the poster "toothgrinder" as a non-professional? Frankly he sounds like my equine non-dentist "dentist" who has 30+ years experience dealing with horses' mouths and teeth. No sedation, excellent horse handling skills, shows up with more tools for the horses' mouth than you can fit in a big ol' metal bucket. Takes his time, describes what he sees and feels. So much better than our vet who sedated and then gets his one file out and files away.

    Speaking of non-professionals, what are your qualifications, davinista? Wasn't it you who was allowing (encouraging, certainly not discouraging) people here to think you were a vet? Weren't you the one to claim some absurdity about clover?

    You've been asked a couple of times about your qualifications here on this thread. Well, what are they?
    By none professional I mean he does not have an 8 year education, he has never went to any dental school. No formal training at all. I do realize that the word professional can mean many different things and I apologize for not being more clear on what I meant.

    I answered the first poster privately about my experiences when asked about qualifications. I will not feed the trolls.
    Last edited by davistina67; Mar. 24, 2013 at 04:53 PM.



  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHT View Post
    I also do think that just being a vet does not make someone a good equine dentist, and that owners need to participate in ensuring that their horse gets good dental care. I like to look at the before and after...make easier by tranq, a light and a speculum.
    I think you hit it there. The owners need to be involved, be educated. Look and feel before and after.

    There is no reason to beat this subject over and over. It is very controversial and will be for the rest of our lives i think. Educating yourself on dentistry by reading some books or university websites will help prevent you and your horse from being a victim regardless of who you choose to use.
    Last edited by davistina67; Mar. 24, 2013 at 05:01 PM.



  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabicon View Post
    Here is credit hours and seems to be a lot about teeth and dentistry in vet school
    http://www.cvm.okstate.edu/index.php...ces&Itemid=252
    In perusing the curriculum, while there are 'sections' on various aspects of the equine mouth, there is no full time involvement. Which begs the question, how much time is actually spent both in the classroom and in the lab, on dentistry?
    And it is not until the third year, that the curriculum offers a real in depth opportunity for the student. And, that opportunity is an elective with an optional four hour wet lab.
    "VMED 7771 and 7811 - Advanced Equine Elective: Third year students interested in equine practice take these courses. They include the basic equine dental exam including aging and normal mouth structure and function and teeth floating. Students in this course have an optional wet lab that is offered outside of class time. It is a 4 hour wet lab where they are instructed on proper oral exam, restraint and use of hand floats. Each student performs these procedures under the supervision of equine faculty."

    So, while the student gets rather extensive classroom instruction involving subjects relating to the mouth, there is but one four hour hands-on opportunity available. Four hours! And that's sufficient to let someone muck about in your horse's mouth either with manual tools or power tools?



  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    By none professional I mean he does not have an 8 year education, he has never went to any dental school. No formal training at all. I do realize that the word professional can mean many different things and I apologize for not being more clear on what I meant.

    I answered the first poster privately about my experiences when asked about qualifications. I will not feed the trolls.
    Well, why should anyone (aside from the person you PM'd) believe that you have any capacity to judge this without any sort of proof from you? That is bizarre. I am a little taken aback by your ferocious dislike of equine dentists and those who don't use power tools, which also seems bizarre to me. However, I don't really care one way or the other- I'm happy with my dentist, and so is my vet, who recommends him.
    You can take a line and say it isn't straight- but that won't change its shape. Jets to Brazil


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  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by foursocks View Post
    Well, why should anyone (aside from the person you PM'd) believe that you have any capacity to judge this without any sort of proof from you? That is bizarre. I am a little taken aback by your ferocious dislike of equine dentists and those who don't use power tools, which also seems bizarre to me. However, I don't really care one way or the other- I'm happy with my dentist, and so is my vet, who recommends him.
    It isn't rocket science. Can you tell when a horses foot doesn't look right? (that just made me think of something. How would you like your farrier to work blindfolded much like some floaters do?) Can you tell when a horse is lame? Much is the same for teeth once you educate yourself.


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  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    . . .How would you like your farrier to work blindfolded . . .
    Do you think that lighting has anything to do with knowing where a nail will exit the foot when a farrier drives it? There is a lot of the job that depends on "feel."

    I don't care how much light you have. It takes at least two years of practice for a farrier to be able to rasp a foot perfectly flat on a consistent basis. And when you get there you can feel it happening.

    And I can do this in total darkness -
    http://blackburnforge.com/images/Misty.wav



  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by foursocks View Post
    Well, why should anyone (aside from the person you PM'd) believe that you have any capacity to judge this without any sort of proof from you? That is bizarre. I am a little taken aback by your ferocious dislike of equine dentists and those who don't use power tools, which also seems bizarre to me. However, I don't really care one way or the other- I'm happy with my dentist, and so is my vet, who recommends him.
    She also has very strong opinions about compounded drugs. And chiropractic care. And ulcers. And clover. And so on and so on.


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  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chezzie View Post
    She also has very strong opinions about compounded drugs. And chiropractic care. And ulcers. And clover. And so on and so on.
    LOL, and you have a problem with someone having opinions? It's the horse world!



  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by davistina67 View Post
    By none professional I mean he does not have an 8 year education, he has never went to any dental school. No formal training at all. I do realize that the word professional can mean many different things and I apologize for not being more clear on what I meant.

    I answered the first poster privately about my experiences when asked about qualifications. I will not feed the trolls.

    Since davistina's qualifications are super duper secret, I did about 5 seconds of research to discover what her professional qualifications are since she is adamant about listening to "professionals". I turned up this gem from 2 years ago. I guess even back then all posters were suppose to listen and bow down to her superior knowledge, yet her qualifications were super secret!

    tabula rashah
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    Originally Posted by davistina67
    Read and you will find out!!!!!
    Read what???? People as you time and time again what your credentials are and time and time again you ignore them and spout off at the mouth with religious fervency. You are scary in your black and white proclamations and if you'd spent enough time around horses or living beings in general you'd understand that fairly everything comes in shades of grey

    And nowhere have I seen anyone say that a "blind" float is good.
    Quote Originally Posted by alicen View Post
    We have no intentions of tarring and feathering anyone: this is now a thread about dipping Ryan Reynolds in chocolate.



  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carolinadreamin' View Post
    Since davistina's qualifications are super duper secret, I did about 5 seconds of research to discover what her professional qualifications are since she is adamant about listening to "professionals". I turned up this gem from 2 years ago. I guess even back then all posters were suppose to listen and bow down to her superior knowledge, yet her qualifications were super secret!




    And nowhere have I seen anyone say that a "blind" float is good.
    Hi Troll! Like I said, it is not rocket science. You may have missed that. Any horse person should educate themselves on the basics.

    You may want to pay attention. That is one of the things that is being talked about is the people that "blind" float. You just proved your lack of knowledge or lack of reading skills.



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