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  1. #841
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    Quote Originally Posted by up-at-5 View Post
    Bwahahahaha, thanks for that!!! I guess that rules out a few frequent posters then.
    Right, I could name a few, that only come here to post about animal rights extremist agendas, don't have much else to contribute and guess what, that is ok too, unlike in their sites, where anyone disagreeing is deleted and banned, because there is NO debating them.

    Here, if it fits the horse world, be my guest, I think you can have any opinion and express it, although you will also have to "endure" that others may disagree.



  2. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Why would anyone do the best job that insures it is the best?
    If nothing else, because if they missed ONE carcass with residues and one little bit of that one was in the one sample they decided to test for once delivered, guess who is paying for that discarded load of produce?
    You don't make that mistake twice, you set protocols to insure the best way you can and it seems that in-house testing of every one carcass was part of those protocols.

    Now, you choose not to believe it, coming from where you come from, distrusting all and any that doesn't fit with the slaughter process being any other than evil and that is fine.

    There are others reading here that may think that makes sense, don't have to be explained the same time and again.

    I don't mind, I will keep explaining what I know, learning about what I don't and making my own mind about all and any, as I expect most here do.
    That is what debates are for, I think, unless someone has other agendas to promote, like the animal rights extremists do.
    Bluey, I don't believe there is any plant in this country that tests every single animal. They might test one out of an x number and separate by lots, so if there's a problem, that lot can be recalled. I think you're just full of it.

    Heck, we don't even test every cow for BSE. And in this case, we're talking about the Kaufman plant that polluted their own environment, racked up thousands in fines and never paid it. You're trying to tell me they tested every horse, out of the goodness of their hearts, even though they weren't required to do so? The BS meter just went sky high.
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  3. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    I can think of a few right here on this thread.
    That little tidbit made me laugh out loud here at work!!!
    I'm keeping it, to bring up as needed in the future!
    PRICELESS!
    "My doctrine is this, that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt.”
    ― Anna Sewell



  4. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Bluey, I don't believe there is any plant in this country that tests every single animal. They might test one out of an x number and separate by lots, so if there's a problem, that lot can be recalled. I think you're just full of it.

    Heck, we don't even test every cow for BSE. And in this case, we're talking about the Kaufman plant that polluted their own environment, racked up thousands in fines and never paid it. You're trying to tell me they tested every horse, out of the goodness of their hearts, even though they weren't required to do so? The BS meter just went sky high.
    So, you don't believe me?
    That is fine, you don't have to.

    I see you still don't understand what a protocol is and why they determine thru those how to test, what to test and how many of each to test.
    No, I don't expect any protocol demands all cows be tested for BSE, if that is not what is necessary.
    You are assuming then all possible should be tested for, every time you go to the doctor, throw all tests on you, just to be sure they catch any one, rare as it may be?
    Nonsense, that is why we have protocols and each one is just that, what is best for any one that needs tended to, regulated or inspected.

    Heck they even have protocols for inspecting light bulbs before they put them in their boxes.



  5. #845
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    First you said
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I know that when the Dallas plants were operating, EVERY horse was tested as per protocol, certain parts of each horse.
    That was in-house regulations, complying with those their european market demanded and they were very particular about that.
    Then you said

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    So, you don't believe me?
    That is fine, you don't have to.

    I see you still don't understand what a protocol is and why they determine thru those how to test, what to test and how many of each to test.
    No, I don't expect any protocol demands all cows be tested for BSE, if that is not what is necessary.
    You are assuming then all possible should be tested for, every time you go to the doctor, throw all tests on you, just to be sure they catch any one, rare as it may be?
    Nonsense, that is why we have protocols and each one is just that, what is best for any one that needs tended to, regulated or inspected.

    Heck they even have protocols for inspecting light bulbs before they put them in their boxes.
    So which one is right? Every horse was tested or some horses were tested? And tested for what? Bute? Bacterial contamination? Other drugs? No drugs? Are you saying that the EU requirements were more stringent when the Dallas Crown plant was still open than they are now?

    According to Fairfax

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    They do random case lot checking from a variety of runs. Each run has a code and that code, for tracking, is put on the shipping box. IF the test (results are actually quite quick) come back with substances the shipment..even if it has already gone, can be re-route for another usage....petfood..(they don't ban horsemeat in Europe for that), it can be shipped to Russia and Asia etc.

    We are waiting rfor a test that is supposed to be released this year that tests the live horse.

    That will make all of the differenc ein the world.

    There is a major EU and Asia market. Going after a U.S. market and spending the amount of noney to develope it AND make it acceptable would be too expensive. That is why the Canadian plants rarely if ever ship to Britain, Scotland, Wales or N and S Ireland

    So Bluey, I understand that you're trying to make me out as the village idiot who doesn't understand testing protocols and requirements and that might make someone else just go away and give up...but that doesn't work for me. I still say you're full of it.
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  6. #846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispatcher View Post
    well, she has said in the past that she knew people who worked in a horse slaughter plant 30 years ago in the US, or maybe it was 50 years ago in Europe--can't remember which. And those people she knew told her they tested EVERY horse. I don't recall her ever saying what the horses were tested for.... But, sure enough, according to her source, every. single. horse was tested and inspected.
    And that makes it fact how?
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." Caffeinated.



  7. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    First you said


    Then you said



    So which one is right? Every horse was tested or some horses were tested? And tested for what? Bute? Bacterial contamination? Other drugs? No drugs? Are you saying that the EU requirements were more stringent when the Dallas Crown plant was still open than they are now?

    According to Fairfax




    So Bluey, I understand that you're trying to make me out as the village idiot who doesn't understand testing protocols and requirements and that might make someone else just go away and give up...but that doesn't work for me. I still say you're full of it.
    Maybe I didn't explain that good enough, but the testing does happen in more places than one.

    What I know, at the plant, every horse was tested as per their protocol and no, I won't tell you more, already explained why.
    Then, in Europe, batches were again tested, but then, of course, not "every horse", as the boxes contained fabricated "cuts", not a whole single horse.

    Now, I hope that is a bit more clear?
    Or maybe I am assuming wrong that you know how basic commercial processes work, or am I just not understanding your questions?

    Also, I have specified I knew of that only from the Dallas plant, not any other, have said that before.
    It would be an assumption that others may have had similar protocols, but that I don't know, already said that in other discussion about this.



  8. #848
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Maybe I didn't explain that good enough, but the testing does happen in more places than one.

    What I know, at the plant, every horse was tested as per their protocol and no, I won't tell you more, already explained why.
    Then, in Europe, batches were again tested, but then, of course, not "every horse", as the boxes contained fabricated "cuts", not a whole single horse.

    Now, I hope that is a bit more clear?
    Or maybe I am assuming wrong that you know how basic commercial processes work, or am I just not understanding your questions?
    I am disputing that every horse was tested. I find that about as improbable as imagining I can go outside and walk across water (unfrozen water).

    If you're exaggerating that "fact" then what else are you exaggerating?

    And yes Bluey, I do understand how "commercial processes" work and further, I understand how QA works. And an assembly line. And project and plant oversight and managment. Yup, yes, ma'am/sir I do. So why don't you stick to what you actually know as fact and leave out the gross exaggeration?
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  9. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Maybe I didn't explain that good enough, but the testing does happen in more places than one.

    What I know, at the plant, every horse was tested as per their protocol and no, I won't tell you more, already explained why.
    Then, in Europe, batches were again tested, but then, of course, not "every horse", as the boxes contained fabricated "cuts", not a whole single horse.

    Now, I hope that is a bit more clear?
    Or maybe I am assuming wrong that you know how basic commercial processes work, or am I just not understanding your questions?

    Also, I have specified I knew of that only from the Dallas plant, not any other, have said that before.
    It would be an assumption that others may have had similar protocols, but that I don't know, already said that in other discussion about this.
    Well I see you have still not answered my question.
    What are YOIUR qualifications? how do you know all these"Facts" and why should we take your word for it.
    You are very quick to point the finger at posters who you say are ARA's but when someone asks you how you KNOW certain things were done, you either refuse to answer or Act offended or attacked.
    You cannot have it both ways.
    How do you "KNOW" what occured at the DC plant? Did you work there?
    And this nonsense about CAn't tell you, Secret, is well it is BS.
    If you really knew something that was not to be public knowledge you would not be saying "I can't tell you" on a Horse bulletin board.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." Caffeinated.


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  10. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    Well I see you have still not answered my question.
    What are YOIUR qualifications? how do you know all these"Facts" and why should we take your word for it.
    You are very quick to point the finger at posters who you say are ARA's but when someone asks you how you KNOW certain things were done, you either refuse to answer or Act offended or attacked.
    You cannot have it both ways.
    How do you "KNOW" what occured at the DC plant? Did you work there?
    And this nonsense about CAn't tell you, Secret, is well it is BS.
    If you really knew something that was not to be public knowledge you would not be saying "I can't tell you" on a Horse bulletin board.
    Let me try to explain this once more.
    I have, I think, said what I know and why.
    You don't have to believe it, store it as one more fact you disbelieve is fine.

    I won't tell what they tested or what for because of obvious reasons to anyone with any sense, in these discussions where certain parties keep bringing just that up and trying to make a federal case of it.
    Testing for residues of all kinds, as testing improved, has been done for decades, "they" just happen to think lately it is one more good way to attack, like they have been using the abuse card for long now.
    I am not going to provide them with more to pick apart, would you?
    They don't want to know, they want more to bash, will never be satisfied until we don't use animals any more, ban this now, that later.

    So, you are not happy with that?
    Sorry, that is all I can help you with.



  11. #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Let me try to explain this once more.
    I have, I think, said what I know and why.
    You don't have to believe it, store it as one more fact you disbelieve is fine.

    I won't tell what they tested or what for because of obvious reasons to anyone with any sense, in these discussions where certain parties keep bringing just that up and trying to make a federal case of it.
    Testing for residues of all kinds, as testing improved, has been done for decades, "they" just happen to think lately it is one more good way to attack, like they have been using the abuse card for long now.
    I am not going to provide them with more to pick apart, would you?
    They don't want to know, they want more to bash, will never be satisfied until we don't use animals any more, ban this now, that later.

    So, you are not happy with that?
    Sorry, that is all I can help you with.
    Actually, You did it again, pointed fingers at the supposed ARA's Change the subject.
    I asked you a VERY straight forward question, HOW Do you KNOW what was done at these plants?
    You complain that people do not listen to what you say, But how can one believe your comments that you KNOW something was or was not done, when you refuse to tell people how you know.

    I know that when the Dallas plants were operating, EVERY horse was tested as per protocol, certain parts of each horse.
    That was in-house regulations, complying with those their european market demanded and they were very particular about that.
    I know it from the ones doing the testing and that it was very important, as there would be testing again once a load arrived in Europe and if any residue was found, the whole load would be rejected.


    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." Caffeinated.



  12. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    Actually, You did it again, pointed fingers at the supposed ARA's Change the subject.
    I asked you a VERY straight forward question, HOW Do you KNOW what was done at these plants?
    Honestly, how many times do I have to answer straight forward until you understand it?

    I have said, I know from years of working with people in the horse industry, some of those that sold directly and worked in slaughter plants, inspectors and workers, that is how I know some of what they did.

    I guarantee you that is more than what some here seem to chose to believe, presented by some that all they know is what they get directly from animal rights extremist propaganda.

    I would think those and what they present and how they present are the ones anyone here should be questioning.



  13. #853
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    There's that old animal rights extremist propaganda card again. Well, it's not working.

    Here's the testing protocal by the feds...FSIS. It would be prohibitively expensive to test every horse. Considering we're talking about a plant that couldn't even meet the environmental regulations that were required it just boggles my mind that you would think that anyone could accept as fact that each and every horse was tested for "residue" without being required to do so. Either you've got your "facts" wrong or you're making it up as you go along.

    http://www.fsis.usda.gov/PDF/2010_Red_Book.pdf
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  14. #854
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Honestly, how many times do I have to answer straight forward until you understand it?

    I have said, I know from years of working with people in the horse industry, some of those that sold directly and worked in slaughter plants, inspectors and workers, that is how I know some of what they did.

    I guarantee you that is more than what some here seem to chose to believe, presented by some that all they know is what they get directly from animal rights extremist propaganda.

    I would think those and what they present and how they present are the ones anyone here should be questioning.
    Well that makes you not an expert at all.
    So we are supposed to take your word that someone you knew who worked for a vet who knew a kill buyer who dated a slaughter house employee, told you. You can see why this seems so non credible.
    We are not talking about the Extremists, We are talking about your posts.
    I can only think I am wasting my time, A vague answer like All the people I have worked with in the horse industry does not make your statements fact.
    Well I just hoped that the Pro slaughter side had a little more credible teeth.
    Sorry.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." Caffeinated.



  15. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    There's that old animal rights extremist propaganda card again. Well, it's not working.

    Here's the testing protocal by the feds...FSIS. It would be prohibitively expensive to test every horse. Considering we're talking about a plant that couldn't even meet the environmental regulations that were required it just boggles my mind that you would think that anyone could accept as fact that each and every horse was tested for "residue" without being required to do so. Either you've got your "facts" wrong or you're making it up as you go along.

    http://www.fsis.usda.gov/PDF/2010_Red_Book.pdf
    You may not have read it, but I already explained that regulations are a minimum standard and yes, even plants that are running old machinery on a shoe string, as that one did, may still be putting their money somewhere else.
    Some here seem to be bound and determined to believe that all was wrong, could not be any but, being, the horror, slaughter, that can't be any other than, well, horrible.

    As I stated, you don't have to believe anything, free country here, pick and choose at will.



  16. #856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    Well that makes you not an expert at all.
    So we are supposed to take your word that someone you knew who worked for a vet who knew a kill buyer who dated a slaughter house employee, told you. You can see why this seems so non credible.
    We are not talking about the Extremists, We are talking about your posts.
    I can only think I am wasting my time, A vague answer like All the people I have worked with in the horse industry does not make your statements fact.
    Well I just hoped that the Pro slaughter side had a little more credible teeth.
    Sorry.
    Well, at least you quit demanding, that is good.

    I will still state, what I know should weigh more than animal rights extremist myths, out of context stories and propaganda ought to, any day, for those that understand their rights to have animals are in the end hanging in the balance.

    I have said it before, slaughter or not, to BAN slaughter is the problem here, that furthers animal rights extremists to their ultimate goal of "no more domestic animals and none too soon for me".



  17. #857
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    You may not have read it, but I already explained that regulations are a minimum standard and yes, even plants that are running old machinery on a shoe string, as that one did, may still be putting their money somewhere else.
    Some here seem to be bound and determined to believe that all was wrong, could not be any but, being, the horror, slaughter, that can't be any other than, well, horrible.

    As I stated, you don't have to believe anything, free country here, pick and choose at will.
    Hold the phone.. REad what you said about that plant..
    I bolded it in the above reply a few back. This post to lauraky you say they were running on a shoe string and in the other you say they tested every animal.
    Come on Bluey, you would think you would want people to believe you for the better of the cause!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." Caffeinated.



  18. #858
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    Hold the phone.. REad what you said about that plant..
    I bolded it in the above reply a few back. This post to lauraky you say they were running on a shoe string and in the other you say they tested every animal.
    Come on Bluey, you would think you would want people to believe you for the better of the cause!
    You see, all you want is something to pick, pick, pick.
    Come on, be serious, you can do better than that.
    Try using your nogging and think if what you just said makes sense.

    I expect now some will again get on Fairfax, since he said he was in the plants and part of their protocol advisors and of course, that is definitively not good enough, considering ...

    On second thought, I may ought to elaborate to help with comprehension:
    I said certain machinery needed replacing, but since they were about to close the plant, they were running that machinery on a shoestring, not that the plant itself was.



  19. #859
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    You see, all you want is something to pick, pick, pick.
    Come on, be serious, you can do better than that.
    Try using your nogging and think if what you just said makes sense.

    I expect now some will again get on Fairfax, since he said he was in the plants and part of their protocol advisors and of course, that is definitively not good enough, considering ...

    On second thought, I may ought to elaborate to help with comprehension:
    I said certain machinery needed replacing, but since they were about to close the plant, they were running that machinery on a shoestring, not that the plant itself was.
    Pick Pick Pick??
    I ask you a straight forward question, and you are sure convincing me you have no credible experience, or facts.
    I think I know who we are dealing with now.
    I do not know that fairfax is any different. Words on a computer screen.
    Bluey, most of your posts are contradictions, or finger pointing at the other posters who question you. I think that speaks volumes.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." Caffeinated.


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  20. #860
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    Pick Pick Pick??
    I ask you a straight forward question, and you are sure convincing me you have no credible experience, or facts.
    I think I know who we are dealing with now.
    I do not know that fairfax is any different. Words on a computer screen.
    Bluey, most of your posts are contradictions, or finger pointing at the other posters who question you. I think that speaks volumes.
    Thank you for your opinion.



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