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  1. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    I just want to say thank you for a such a calm, reasoned response.

    I understand what you are saying, and would like to ask if there were things such as agreed upon observors (i.e. someone you trust to oversee) and you could document the various entities taking transport violations seriously, and extended testing of the product to ensure no drugs, would you at that point be "okay" with a US SH?
    In the past I've said I would be ok with it.
    This has been a long journey for me, starting probably 8 years ago or so, learning about slaughter and honing my understanding along with my beliefs.

    I would not eat horse myself and originally it was that disgust, combined with the inhumane treatment at plants that made me anti.

    I've evolved since then to understanding that dictating what others eat is not my place. I get it. I eat beef and chicken and pork, and I'm not thrilled with how those animals are managed either and I do, outside of this horse forum obviously, advocate for better there too.

    However, if the product is coming from the US I *do* believe we should make sure it's clean and humane. That's just how I feel about US products in general, we should lead w/high standards because they are possible to attain instead of lowering ours because others do so or don't care what's in it and because it's 'easier' or cheaper to accomplish.

    Re; humane treatment and enforcement of violations in the plant and outside if they promised they would be better, the question becomes 'how many'... how many bolt misses are ok? How many horses killed or grievously injured in transit are ok? How much negative impact should a plant [or any business] have on the community it enters, and how amenable should they be to the wishes of the community around them?

    I don't have any answers for these and the rest of those types of questions... So if I was elected Queen of the World, I don't really know what I would say re: the limits. That is in part because I do not believe they would do better or want to do better.

    You know right before this horse labeled as beef thing I had a taco from Taco Bell, it was DELICIOUS!... then I had a burger from Wendy's that tasted just... not right... I HATE that this has ruined eating even fast food, for me. The drive thru will not see me anytime soon because seriously whether it's horse or cheap beef... they're probably equally bad for you and inhumane.
    Cheap anything, seriously, is not something I am embracing right now. Good, healthy, quality, humane food costs.

    Very early on, probably 11 years ago now, I heard an interview with Temple Grandin on NPR about chickens and the whole McDonalds thing re: their treatment, as well as her work with cattle. I thinks she's a very objective and clear thinking on it.
    I grew up on a farm, my brother is still in Dairy. There are people out there doing things right.... it's when the corp. mentality jumps in that things go haywire, IMO.
    Last edited by Angela Freda; Mar. 26, 2013 at 01:38 PM.



  2. #822
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    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    So I am taking this to mean that they can slaughter any horse with any sort of stuff in it without checking and then turn around and sell it to any gullible consuming country without any sort of penalty or guarantee?

    Sure gives them a lot of incentive to produce a quality product, doesn't it?

    How does this change if they decide to develop a local market within the U.S.?
    that is not correct

    They do random case lot checking from a variety of runs. Each run has a code and that code, for tracking, is put on the shipping box. IF the test (results are actually quite quick) come back with substances the shipment..even if it has already gone, can be re-route for another usage....petfood..(they don't ban horsemeat in Europe for that), it can be shipped to Russia and Asia etc.

    We are waiting rfor a test that is supposed to be released this year that tests the live horse.

    That will make all of the differenc ein the world.

    There is a major EU and Asia market. Going after a U.S. market and spending the amount of noney to develope it AND make it acceptable would be too expensive. That is why the Canadian plants rarely if ever ship to Britain, Scotland, Wales or N and S Ireland



  3. #823
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    that is not correct

    They do random case lot checking from a variety of runs. Each run has a code and that code, for tracking, is put on the shipping box. IF the test (results are actually quite quick) come back with substances the shipment..even if it has already gone, can be re-route for another usage....petfood..(they don't ban horsemeat in Europe for that), it can be shipped to Russia and Asia etc.

    We are waiting rfor a test that is supposed to be released this year that tests the live horse.

    That will make all of the differenc ein the world.

    There is a major EU and Asia market. Going after a U.S. market and spending the amount of noney to develope it AND make it acceptable would be too expensive. That is why the Canadian plants rarely if ever ship to Britain, Scotland, Wales or N and S Ireland
    I know that when the Dallas plants were operating, EVERY horse was tested as per protocol, certain parts of each horse.
    That was in-house regulations, complying with those their european market demanded and they were very particular about that.
    I know it from the ones doing the testing and that it was very important, as there would be testing again once a load arrived in Europe and if any residue was found, the whole load would be rejected.

    That was way before animal rights extremist agendas caught onto making residues in meat their new battle cry in the past year or so.
    Guess their propaganda machine has been busy and decided that was one more way to attack all we do with animals, here slaughter horses.

    Now, as we know, that was many years ago now, I don't know what they have been doing, as far as testing protocols, since the plants in the USA closed.



  4. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I know that when the Dallas plants were operating, EVERY horse was tested as per protocol, certain parts of each horse.
    That was in-house regulations, complying with those their european market demanded and they were very particular about that.
    I know it from the ones doing the testing and that it was very important, as there would be testing again once a load arrived in Europe and if any residue was found, the whole load would be rejected.

    That was way before animal rights extremist agendas caught onto making residues in meat their new battle cry in the past year or so.
    Guess their propaganda machine has been busy and decided that was one more way to attack all we do with animals, here slaughter horses.

    Now, as we know, that was many years ago now, I don't know what they have been doing, as far as testing protocols, since the plants in the USA closed.
    Bluey are you some AG employee that we are not aware of. You have always stated that you KNOW something because of the ones doing the testing, etc.
    You have frequently made statements that you have an inside. or are privy to certain information.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  5. #825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I know that when the Dallas plants were operating, EVERY horse was tested as per protocol, certain parts of each horse.
    That was in-house regulations, complying with those their european market demanded and they were very particular about that.
    I know it from the ones doing the testing and that it was very important, as there would be testing again once a load arrived in Europe and if any residue was found, the whole load would be rejected.
    What were they testing for Bluey?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  6. #826
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    May. 6, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    Oh Brother, did you Read the print.. Extreme cruelty to shoot a horse??
    Or some such nonsense. OH man it is a sinking ship the ARA's will just love this. Yeah he can be fired, but the media people need to get there shit together, Oh yeah like that is ever going to happen.
    The man did not get fired becuase he was cruel to a horse, he got fired for making an ass out of himself and making valley meats look bad.
    And let me just say this for the Trillionth time. Shooting a horse clean in the head is NOT animal cruelty. He did not beat that horse and the horse did not suffer. Up until that point, the horse was happily eating grass.
    NOT the issue! What he did do was make him self ARA fodder, and lose his job for his assholery of taping it. not to mention AGAIN, that this was done a year ago, and his daughter just put it up on the internet. Are we clear?
    It has ZERO to do with Horse slaughter houses. He may have been an employee of valley meats, but until his smarty daughter posted the dame thing no one was the wiser, AND he processed it himself and eats horse.
    His right! OKAY?? Not defending the idiot, but lets get your priorities straight.
    Charming, someone from the NM livestock board said this?
    It's extreme cruelty, a penalty, to maliciously kill an animal
    Really? Was that malicious? What are the laws in NEw MExico?
    Insane!
    I hope this isn't directed at me...I was just passing information.



  7. #827
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    What were they testing for Bluey?
    Are you kidding me? That is proprietary information, sorry.
    I will tell you, it was way more than USDA requires, as it should be, as those are minimum standards.



  8. #828
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Wait a minute, who is the one here that keeps bringing animal rights extremist propaganda here, who keeps starting such threads, who is telling others to quit posting if they don't agree with all that they keep posting, time and again the same, that has been time and again already refuted in so many ways?

    Oh, yes, check that out and then come to say it is I who keeps repeating themselves and you will see, "it ain't me".
    First of all Bluey, it's not always the same poster as far as anti-slaughter goes.

    Secondly...refuted? Really? Maybe to your satisfaction.

    RaRa brand scrapple...doesn't sound yummy. OBXPony, you slice the scrapple, dredge it in flour, fry it in a bit of oil or butter...it's pure deliciousness (I like mine with ketchup.)
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  9. #829
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jealoushe View Post
    I hope this isn't directed at me...I was just passing information.
    No it wasn't at all, Sorry!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #830
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Are you kidding me? That is proprietary information, sorry.
    I will tell you, it was way more than USDA requires, as it should be, as those are minimum standards.
    You're kidding me, right? You know Bluey, unless you can tell us how you have any inside knowledge, and considering that, at least on the testing end, your supposed slaughter plant knowledge conflicts with Fairfax's, I suspect you're just full of it.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Are you kidding me? That is proprietary information, sorry.
    I will tell you, it was way more than USDA requires, as it should be, as those are minimum standards.
    There you go again Bluey, Are you going to answer my question?
    What is all this mystery, Who are you, or are you just trying to make yourself sound important. See my post, I think I have asked you before on other threads when you make statements such as you made here and on the one I quoted a few back.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  12. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    First of all Bluey, it's not always the same poster as far as anti-slaughter goes.

    Secondly...refuted? Really? Maybe to your satisfaction.

    RaRa brand scrapple...doesn't sound yummy. OBXPony, you slice the scrapple, dredge it in flour, fry it in a bit of oil or butter...it's pure deliciousness (I like mine with ketchup.)
    No, I don't mean only one, there are several, don't tell me you really have not noticed that?

    Yes, refuted time and again and that seems to be the only time you notice, evidently, not when those on your side keep bringing the same over and over again.

    Heck, I have even been told to go somewhere else, as if this was an animal rights extremist site and any other than agreeing with them is not acceptable.

    Well, not really, this is a HORSE OWNING, TRAINING, CARING FOR site, if some have not noticed yet.



  13. #833
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    There you go again Bluey, Are you going to answer my question?
    What is all this mystery, Who are you, or are you just trying to make yourself sound important. See my post, I think I have asked you before on other threads when you make statements such as you made here and on the one I quoted a few back.

    well, she has said in the past that she knew people who worked in a horse slaughter plant 30 years ago in the US, or maybe it was 50 years ago in Europe--can't remember which. And those people she knew told her they tested EVERY horse. I don't recall her ever saying what the horses were tested for.... But, sure enough, according to her source, every. single. horse was tested and inspected.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #834
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    There you go again Bluey, Are you going to answer my question?
    What is all this mystery, Who are you, or are you just trying to make yourself sound important. See my post, I think I have asked you before on other threads when you make statements such as you made here and on the one I quoted a few back.
    You know, I don't ask others direct, personal questions, not twice definitively.
    I have answered that one before anyway and no, I don't work for any association or government agency, not that it would matter to anyone.
    I do work with many of those employees and that is where, over a lifetime, I have acquired plenty of information.

    I hope that makes you happy.



  15. #835
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    You're kidding me, right? You know Bluey, unless you can tell us how you have any inside knowledge, and considering that, at least on the testing end, your supposed slaughter plant knowledge conflicts with Fairfax's, I suspect you're just full of it.
    No, I was trying to be informative, as you don't seem to know how so much works, as in plain business and regulations and inspections and such.

    You don't have to believe me or anyone else, or others believe you either and that is fine, the information is out there, you pick and choose fine, as you wish, for your side, as every one else that reads here can do.



  16. #836
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    No, I was trying to be informative, as you don't seem to know how so much works, as in plain business and regulations and inspections and such.

    You don't have to believe me or anyone else, or others believe you either and that is fine, the information is out there, you pick and choose fine, as you wish, for your side, as every one else that reads here can do.
    Not picking and choosing, simply asking for facts, not speculation on your part. You can say the sky is orange, but that doesn't make it true.

    If you have some inside knowledge, then what tests were performed on every single animal? I find that extremely hard to believe...why would a plant exceed the requirements of the USDA and the importing nation?

    What did they test for? BSE? Bacterial contamination? Drug residues? Which ones? Looks to me like you have just enough knowledge to snow some people and that's it.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #837
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    I support Bluey in NOT disclosing her sources. I don't know anyone involved in or commenting on an industry with so many hot wires that would put those individuals at risk.

    Look at the seizure when GG posted the lady was elderly, lived alone, gave her phone number and DIRECTIONS as to how to get to her farm

    If that wasn't trying to incite some wack job to go and do damage I don't know what is.

    Izanalter had to ask posters here and on facebook to QUIT CALLING HER HUSBAND and harrasing him for leaving her. Can you imagine..man leaves partner and wacko readings actually think they have a RIGHT to call and threaten the departing partner.

    Those anti slaughter refuse to give their information out as they claim they will be harr assed and live in fear.

    And yet...they want someone elses sources?

    If you don't believe Bluey..irnore or don't read..same as many do with me.



  18. #838
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Well, not really, this is a HORSE OWNING, TRAINING, CARING FOR site, if some have not noticed yet.
    Bwahahahaha, thanks for that!!! I guess that rules out a frequent poster then.
    "My doctrine is this, that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt.”
    ― Anna Sewell



  19. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Not picking and choosing, simply asking for facts, not speculation on your part. You can say the sky is orange, but that doesn't make it true.

    If you have some inside knowledge, then what tests were performed on every single animal? I find that extremely hard to believe...why would a plant exceed the requirements of the USDA and the importing nation?

    What did they test for? BSE? Bacterial contamination? Drug residues? Which ones? Looks to me like you have just enough knowledge to snow some people and that's it.
    Why would anyone do the best job that insures it is the best?
    If nothing else, because if they missed ONE carcass with residues and one little bit of that one was in the one sample they decided to test for once delivered, guess who is paying for that discarded load of produce?
    You don't make that mistake twice, you set protocols to insure the best way you can and it seems that in-house testing of every one carcass was part of those protocols.

    Now, you choose not to believe it, coming from where you come from, distrusting all and any that doesn't fit with the slaughter process being any other than evil and that is fine.

    There are others reading here that may think that makes sense, don't have to be explained the same time and again.

    I don't mind, I will keep explaining what I know, learning about what I don't and making my own mind about all and any, as I expect most here do.
    That is what debates are for, I think, unless someone has other agendas to promote, like the animal rights extremists do.



  20. #840
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    Quote Originally Posted by up-at-5 View Post
    Bwahahahaha, thanks for that!!! I guess that rules out a few frequent posters then.
    I can think of a few right here on this thread.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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