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  1. #861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Thank you for your opinion.
    Well unless you are willing to back up all your Because "I know" statements with fact, How are you any more credible than the Animal rights wackos!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


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  2. #862
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    You see, all you want is something to pick, pick, pick.
    Come on, be serious, you can do better than that.
    Try using your nogging and think if what you just said makes sense.

    I expect now some will again get on Fairfax, since he said he was in the plants and part of their protocol advisors and of course, that is definitively not good enough, considering ...

    On second thought, I may ought to elaborate to help with comprehension:
    I said certain machinery needed replacing, but since they were about to close the plant, they were running that machinery on a shoestring, not that the plant itself was.
    Contrary to your "protocol" claims, Fairfax's postings make logical sense and appear to be very similar to testing in the U.S. When a question is posed to Fairfax to which he doesn't have an answer...he gets back to us.

    Your "protocols" defy common sense logic.

    I do believe many of us are sick and tired of having the animal rights activist label being thrown about at anyone who doesn't agree with you.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  3. #863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Well, at least you quit demanding, that is good.

    I will still state, what I know should weigh more than animal rights extremist myths, out of context stories and propaganda ought to, any day, for those that understand their rights to have animals are in the end hanging in the balance.

    I have said it before, slaughter or not, to BAN slaughter is the problem here, that furthers animal rights extremists to their ultimate goal of "no more domestic animals and none too soon for me".
    Wel Bluey, I do remember that you have stated this testing of "every single horse" on this thread and other threads. When pressed for how you know this, you have in the past admitted that this was told to you by someone you knew that worked at the the plant. That is not a fact, that is simple hearsay and in the case of saying every horse was tested, it is also complete and total bull crap.

    I know that at one time I did the research into the USDA and CFIA records and found out that less than 1% of the horses were actually tested. Angela Freda also produced this same research just in the past few weeks, she is a master at researching actual facts with links to official government sites to verify the info. Perhaps I will find the time to locate and repost her most recent links, that included the Dallas plant in question, and its abysmal test rate of less than 1%.

    You can try to buffalo people into believing that you are an expert, but government statistics say you are full of bull on this issue. I don't think you know much more about sample analysis, protocol, etc, either.

    So go on with your usual bluster about your RARA hangups, no amount of reason, facts or evidence can sway you on that issue. But at least try a little to stay on tract and not deflect the issues, and try to stick with facts, not hearsay, BS and bluster.
    Last edited by ADM7040; Mar. 26, 2013 at 11:19 PM. Reason: wrong acronym
    Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
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  4. #864
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADM7040 View Post
    Wel Bluey, I do remember that you have stated this testing of "every single horse" on this thread and other threads. When pressed for how you know this, you have in the past admitted that this was told to you by someone you knew that worked at the the plant. That is not a fact, that is simple hearsay and in the case of saying every horse was tested, it is also complete and total bull crap.

    I know that at one time I did the research into the FDA and CFIA records and found out that less than 1% of the horses were actually tested. Angela Freda also produced this same research just in the past few weeks, she is a master at researching actual facts with links to official government sites to verify the info. Perhaps I will find the time to locate and repost her most recent links, that included the Dallas plant in question, and its abysmal test rate of less than 1%.

    You can try to buffalo people into believing that you are an expert, but government statistics say you are full of bull on this issue. I don't think you know much more about sample analysis, protocol, etc, either.

    So go on with your usual bluster about your RARA hangups, no amount of reason, facts or evidence can sway you on that issue. But at least try a little to stay on tract and not deflect the issues, and try to stick with facts, not hearsay, BS and bluster.
    One more time, ok?
    I know that from one of the people that were doing the testing, plus have heard others working there make references to that.
    When I asked why that protocol, was given the reasons I already posted.

    No, I was not there doing the testing and yes, you are free to believe or not.
    I do and that is why I posted that, also explained and just did again how I know.

    You think that would be enough, you can either believe it or not, why is that so hard to understand?



  5. #865
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    One more time, ok?
    I know that from one of the people that were doing the testing, plus have heard others working there make references to that.
    When I asked why that protocol, was given the reasons I already posted.

    No, I was not there doing the testing and yes, you are free to believe or not.
    I do and that is why I posted that, also explained and just did again how I know.

    You think that would be enough, you can either believe it or not, why is that so hard to understand?
    Because you continue to play fast and loose with the truth.

    As far as protocol....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  6. #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Because you continue to play fast and loose with the truth.

    As far as protocol....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk
    You think so?
    Guess that if you were on my side you would agree I had some believable facts there.
    That may make a difference, why I don't think some are as much on the fence as they pretend.

    How about the "other" side, just finally caught paying $100,000+ to lie about abuse in the circus?

    I say THAT is being caught playing fast and loose with the truth.



  7. #867
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    First you said


    Then you said



    So which one is right? Every horse was tested or some horses were tested? And tested for what? Bute? Bacterial contamination? Other drugs? No drugs? Are you saying that the EU requirements were more stringent when the Dallas Crown plant was still open than they are now?

    According to Fairfax




    So Bluey, I understand that you're trying to make me out as the village idiot who doesn't understand testing protocols and requirements and that might make someone else just go away and give up...but that doesn't work for me. I still say you're full of it.
    This is in Canada. I do not know if they tested each animal in the U.S. but I would expect they had a very high degree of testing especially when they were coming under fire. I remember speaking with a USDA inspector and he told me the equine meat was held to a higher standard and tested more than they did for beef, pork and chicken EXCEPT when there was the mad cow scare.

    Mad Cow brings forth more testing because of public concern...not because of health concerns.



  8. #868
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    You think so?
    Guess that if you were on my side you would agree I had some believable facts there.
    That may make a difference, why I don't think some are as much on the fence as they pretend.

    How about the "other" side, just finally caught paying $100,000+ to lie about abuse in the circus?

    I say THAT is being caught playing fast and loose with the truth.
    What's believable? Saying you knew someone who worked there is not fact. like adm said it is hearsay.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


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  9. #869
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    See that's a concern to me. It sounds like they don't actually care about the health concern, only the publics perception of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    This is in Canada. I do not know if they tested each animal in the U.S. but I would expect they had a very high degree of testing especially when they were coming under fire. I remember speaking with a USDA inspector and he told me the equine meat was held to a higher standard and tested more than they did for beef, pork and chicken EXCEPT when there was the mad cow scare.

    Mad Cow brings forth more testing because of public concern...not because of health concerns.


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  10. #870
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    This is in Canada. I do not know if they tested each animal in the U.S. but I would expect they had a very high degree of testing especially when they were coming under fire. I remember speaking with a USDA inspector and he told me the equine meat was held to a higher standard and tested more than they did for beef, pork and chicken EXCEPT when there was the mad cow scare.

    Mad Cow brings forth more testing because of public concern...not because of health concerns.
    Right, many inspectors from several plants always commented that horse slaughter plants for human consumption were some of the most inspected of all.
    When asked they said because it was part of foreign trade and that added some more layers to their regulations.

    Yes, that is hearsay also and all that is worth.



  11. #871
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    You think so?
    Guess that if you were on my side you would agree I had some believable facts there.
    That may make a difference, why I don't think some are as much on the fence as they pretend.

    . How about the "other" side, just finally caught paying $100,000+ to lie about abuse in the circus?

    I say THAT is being caught playing fast and loose with the truth.
    I have been accused of the same. Funny...when I stated protocol regarding process these same people stated they didn't believe any thing I was saying. They didn't believe that changes were made...easy to throw darts when they have never been to an equine slaughter plan in the U.S. or more important..Canada where slaughter is acrtive.

    There are protocols for horse seizures.

    There aare protocols when a vet comes out to your farm to inspect your horses for a health certificate. They would only test for a specific disease if there were known cases in your area i.e. west nile

    There are protocols when you go to a dentists office regarding sterilization.. Oh Oh...Dentists have been acfused and found guilty of lack of proper procedure...especially when AIDs was first identified.

    There were many unsubstantiated cases but i am unable to find any case proven in court.

    Therefore hysteria appears to be the protocol of those who are anti slaughter



  12. #872
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    You think so?
    Guess that if you were on my side you would agree I had some believable facts there.
    That may make a difference, why I don't think some are as much on the fence as they pretend.

    How about the "other" side, just finally caught paying $100,000+ to lie about abuse in the circus?

    I say THAT is being caught playing fast and loose with the truth.
    I don't have a "side." And I call them as I see them, whether on my "side" or not.

    I'm not disputing Fairfax's facts...just yours.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  13. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    See that's a concern to me. It sounds like they don't actually care about the health concern, only the publics perception of it.
    There is a cost factor. Despite people saying they want everything they will ever consume tested...they are not willing to pay 20.00 per pound for hamburger and $40 for 6 pork chops.

    Prices for food are based on quantity of the product, speed it is processed and quick movement to the point of sale.

    External pricing is influenced by fuel, wages, etc.

    We have the cheapest food in the world.

    Ask a family of four it they could survive with an increase in grocery costs of $400 plus per month?

    Nothing in the world is 100% nor should we expect it to be, IF you want that...grow it yourself.



  14. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    One more time, ok?
    I know that from one of the people that were doing the testing, plus have heard others working there make references to that.
    When I asked why that protocol, was given the reasons I already posted.

    No, I was not there doing the testing and yes, you are free to believe or not.
    I do and that is why I posted that, also explained and just did again how I know.

    You think that would be enough, you can either believe it or not, why is that so hard to understand?
    Heard it from a friend of a friend.......
    WELL, I HEARD from a friend of a friend(actually, a FB friend, does that count?)
    that they do not test every animal. Believable, or just me recounting hearsay?

    Yeah, that's what I thought.
    "My doctrine is this, that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt.”
    ― Anna Sewell


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  15. #875
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    We have the right to safe food. You know as well as I do they cut corners everywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    There is a cost factor. Despite people saying they want everything they will ever consume tested...they are not willing to pay 20.00 per pound for hamburger and $40 for 6 pork chops.

    Prices for food are based on quantity of the product, speed it is processed and quick movement to the point of sale.

    External pricing is influenced by fuel, wages, etc.

    We have the cheapest food in the world.

    Ask a family of four it they could survive with an increase in grocery costs of $400 plus per month?

    Nothing in the world is 100% nor should we expect it to be, IF you want that...grow it yourself.


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  16. #876
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    There is a cost factor. Despite people saying they want everything they will ever consume tested...they are not willing to pay 20.00 per pound for hamburger and $40 for 6 pork chops.

    Prices for food are based on quantity of the product, speed it is processed and quick movement to the point of sale.

    External pricing is influenced by fuel, wages, etc.

    We have the cheapest food in the world.

    Ask a family of four it they could survive with an increase in grocery costs of $400 plus per month?


    Nothing in the world is 100% nor should we expect it to be, IF you want that...grow it yourself.
    Exactly. My point exactly. Common sense tells us that Bluey's "every horse was tested" is a figment of someone's imagination.

    Those of us who can and choose to afford it and are concerned about our food safety try to buy animal products that are hormone and antibiotic free and have been fed vegetarian diets. Nothing is 100% safe, not even what you grow in your own backyard.

    By the way Fairfax, the most recent statistics I found say that 40,000 head of cattle are tested for BSE (mad cow disease) each year of of 90 million head and about 40 million slaughtered each year. That's about 0.1%.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  17. #877
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    You think so?
    Guess that if you were on my side you would agree I had some believable facts there.
    That may make a difference, why I don't think some are as much on the fence as they pretend.


    How about the "other" side, just finally caught paying $100,000+ to lie about abuse in the circus?

    I say THAT is being caught playing fast and loose with the truth.
    WOW! So if we dont' believe every word you say, esp. with it doesn't sound logical, we must be "on the other side" and just pretending?

    And two wrongs don't make a right, Bluey. Yes, they played loose and fast and got caught...what does that have to do with what you are stating? Nothing, unless you are trying to state you were playing loose and fast, too, but it's okay because that's how the other side operates.

    Cripes, I am on "your" side as far as allowing horse slaughter, but if you are going to keep posting like that, you may do "your" side more harm than good.
    And as someone whose brother has worked in slaughter plants, testing every animal unless there is a large problem (such as repeated violations/a pissed off customer) makes "0" sense. But instead of accepting that maybe your source was incorrect or exagerating, or there was another reason for it, you insinuate that anyone that questions the logic without more info must be sllllloooowwwww.

    I don't know if you truly understand how you come across sometimes, Bluey.


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  18. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    We have the right to safe food. You know as well as I do they cut corners everywhere.
    Just like expecting good healthcare, you don't ask your doctor to run all tests known to man when so much out there is not even on the radar but as a very rare possibility.

    The same with our food, that is where protocols come in, to catch most of what it can affect that one produce and not all that is out there that could affect it.

    Not even forgetting that once bought, some contamination happens on the way home, how it is stored, while preparing it or being improperly prepared and stored until eaten.

    There is a time where you have to say that is enough, because there is no such thing as perfection, as in perfectly safe food.

    That is not saying that we don't have and don't try to keep improving, just that it is a process in transition and not perfect.



  19. #879
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Just like expecting good healthcare, you don't ask your doctor to run all tests known to man when so much out there is not even on the radar but as a very rare possibility.

    The same with our food, that is where protocols come in, to catch most of what it can affect that one produce and not all that is out there that could affect it.

    Not even forgetting that once bought, some contamination happens on the way home, how it is stored, while preparing it or being improperly prepared and stored until eaten.

    There is a time where you have to say that is enough, because there is no such thing as perfection, as in perfectly safe food.

    That is not saying that we don't have and don't try to keep improving, just that it is a process in transition and not perfect.
    Bluey, that's not what you said. You said every horse was tested. Every. That means 100%. For residue (although you declined to say what residue.)

    I don't think horse meat picks up bute on the way home from the store, do you?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  20. #880
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    WOW! So if we dont' believe every word you say, esp. with it doesn't sound logical, we must be "on the other side" and just pretending?

    And two wrongs don't make a right, Bluey. Yes, they played loose and fast and got caught...what does that have to do with what you are stating? Nothing, unless you are trying to state you were playing loose and fast, too, but it's okay because that's how the other side operates.

    Cripes, I am on "your" side as far as allowing horse slaughter, but if you are going to keep posting like that, you may do "your" side more harm than good.
    And as someone whose brother has worked in slaughter plants, testing every animal unless there is a large problem (such as repeated violations/a pissed off customer) makes "0" sense. But instead of accepting that maybe your source was incorrect or exagerating, or there was another reason for it, you insinuate that anyone that questions the logic without more info must be sllllloooowwwww.

    I don't know if you truly understand how you come across sometimes, Bluey.
    Look, I don't know where your brother worked, but in the Dallas plant, as per people working there over the years, several of them, that is what they said they were doing and why.
    So did some inspectors.

    Tell me, why is it wrong to say that is what I know and why, take it as you wish?

    Yes, two wrongs don't make a right, but that was a pertinent example of someone lying, was I not clear?
    I am not lying as accused, as already explained many times, I just state what I know and where from and you are free to believe it or not.



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