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  1. #801
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    There's been numerous polls done both nationally and in a number of states, by independent research firms. They all have pretty similar results.



  2. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Again..you are missing the point

    It has NOTHING to do with the slaughter in North America

    When the meat is shipped it is not mixed with any other type of meat as the slaughter plants for equines ONLY kill equines and the odd exotic i.e. ostrich

    If someone decides to mix in beef, lamb, pork...that would be at the point of packaging and obviously that is done in Europe

    The mislable that occured in Mexico was not that there was another type of meat in the box. It was the wrong CUT listed. Wrong label but correct product type.

    So..how many died due to consumption of Greek chicken nuggets with horse?
    While it started out as 'OMG there's horse in here!',... it has evolved, as some things/people do.

    The imfamous case that brought Erin Brokovitch to everyones attention started out as a simple purchase of a house deal the lawyer was handling... it turned into a HUGE coverup of some really seriously evil doings by big business who cared not a whit about the people it harmed along the way to making it's money. I guess Erin shoulda' just dropped the whole harmful substance issue because all she was supposed to research was the sale of a house and some land?


    And now we're learning about horses in Ireland, ex-race horses and others who've received banned substances, going to slaughter for human consumption
    http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2013/s3724078.htm
    http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2013/s3724078.htm

    It has EVERYTHING to do with slaughter being restarted in the US.
    Because we can not insure that the US horses who would be slaughtered in US plants would be clean of substances that the EU and now the enlightened consumers do not want in their foods... what makes us think anyone with any restrictions on substances [as most nations/unions do] would want to buy it?

    Keep saying 'a little bute won't kill ya'... the point is not that we have no idea what bute even in small servings over a long time will do to ya'... it's that we have no idea what bute even in small servings over a long time will do to ya'.
    And the fact that the buying union has banned it.
    Are rules not important to anyone on the pro-side?

    If horses are supposed to be clean, if an EID is supposed to be accurate... how come that isn't important to anyone?
    Clean doesn't mean the horse stood on a feedlot for 6 months, the 'no no, never' list of drugs are drugs that have 0 clearance time... there is no length of quarantine that will make a horse who's had one gram of bute or the myriad of other drugs on that list, ok to enter the pipeline. That's not my rule, that's the requirement of those buying the stuff.
    Doesn't the buyers requirements mean anything to anyone?

    This 'rules and regulations don't matter' stance is another reason I can not believe all this faux-remorseful, 'we'll do it better this time if you let us' push to reinstate horse slaughter plants in the US.

    Cause they are already making excuse after excuse for the crap we're learning about the end product... just like they made excuse after excuse for the number of misses in the kill box, or the injured or dead horses in transport, or the stolen horses who ended up processed....

    Fool me once shame on you
    Fool me twice shame on me.
    Last edited by Angela Freda; Mar. 26, 2013 at 09:12 AM.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #803
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    Oct. 25, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by OBXPony View Post
    "Great green globs of greasy, grimy, gopher guts,
    Mutilated monkey meat,
    Little birdies' dirty feet,
    Great green globs of greasy, grimy goper guts,
    And I forgot my spoon
    (but I brought a straw!)"



    And by the way did yall know that spam can actually last for at least 15 years?


    Thanks for the laugh!!!



  4. #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    While it started out as 'OMG there's horse in here!',... it has evolved, as some things/people do.

    Horses in Ireland, ex-race horses and others who've received banned substances, going to slaughter
    http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2013/s3724078.htm
    http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2013/s3724078.htm

    It has EVERYTHING to do with slaughter being restarted in the US.
    Because we can not insure that the US horses who would be slaughtered in US plants would be clean of substances that the EU and now the enlightened consumers do not want in their foods... what makes us think anyone with any restrictions on substances [as most nations/unions do] would want to buy it?

    Keep saying 'a little bute won't kill ya'... the point is not that we have no idea what bute even in small servings over a long time will do to ya'... it's that we have no idea what bute even in small servings over a long time will do to ya'.
    And the fact that the buying union has banned it.
    Are rules not important to anyone on the pro-side?

    If horses are supposed to be clean, if an EID is supposed to be accurate... how come that isn't important to anyone?
    Clean doesn't mean the horse stood on a feedlot for 6 months, the 'no no, never' list of drugs are drugs that have 0 clearance time... there is no length of quarantine that will make a horse who's had one gram of bute or the myriad of other drugs on that list, ok to enter the pipeline. That's not my rule, that's the requirement of those buying the stuff.
    Doesn't the buyers requirements mean anything to anyone?

    This 'rules and regulations don't matter' stance is another reason I can not believe all this faux-remorseful, 'we'll do it better this time if you let us' push to reinstate horse slaughter plants in the US.

    Cause they are already making excuse after excuse for the crap we're learning about the end product... just like they made excuse after excuse for the number of misses in the kill box, or the injured or dead horses in transport, or the stolen horses who ended up processed....

    Fool me once shame on you
    Fool me twice shame on me.
    More smoke and mirrors, all part of animal rights extremist drives to eliminate all use of animals, this a perfect chance to get their message out and they ran with it.

    Sure, there are problems in all we do, but normal, sensible people work on the problems and make the processes better.
    Extremist want to ban it all, using any problems as "see, there is something wrong, we have to ban it all!"

    That is what some have been doing all along, par for the course for those following the animal rights extremists.



  5. #805
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    [QUOTE=Bluey;6903481]More smoke and mirrors, all part of animal rights extremist drives to eliminate all use of animals, this a perfect chance to get their message out and they ran with it./QUOTE]

    But that is not going to happen because Fairfax claims that the AR's, RaRa's etc all own and use horses. And surely, they don't want to lose their animals, so why would they want to take yours away? You can stop worring about that now.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #806
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    Bluey do you just cut and paste a similar response, no matter what you're responding to?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    4 members found this post helpful.

  7. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Scrapple...and I love it. Next time my husband ventures anywhere close to MD or PA, it's on his list to bring home. Goetta doesn't even come close.
    If I could find a way I would ship you some The Piggly Wiggley sells it for a good price down here although I am the one that at the store I will grab the cow tongue and walk up to a random stranger and act like I am licking them with it with noise included or grab the liver and in a loud voice tell my fiancee that "this should do for that liver transport for the guy, to bad the dog got the real thing"



  8. #808
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    More smoke and mirrors, all part of animal rights extremist drives to eliminate all use of animals, this a perfect chance to get their message out and they ran with it.

    Sure, there are problems in all we do, but normal, sensible people work on the problems and make the processes better.
    Extremist want to ban it all, using any problems as "see, there is something wrong, we have to ban it all!"

    That is what some have been doing all along, par for the course for those following the animal rights extremists.
    You're right there should be no knee-jerk 'ban it' reaction.
    We know that the industry as it functioned in the US prior to the closing of the 3 last plants was problematic.
    There were attempts to make it better. Decades of trying to make it better, or at least to make it what it was supposed to be... to be what had been agreed to by all parties.
    I don't call decades of trying and watching as the industry broke the rules, and even when caught, avoided the consequences [David Carper anyone?] 'knee jerk'.

    A perfect, well documented case of the attempts to make the industry comply is Kaufman Texas/Dallas Crown... which addressed a myriad of issues [humane handling, the effects of the plant on the communities infrastructure and economy, etc]

    That didn't work out too well, for either party to be honesty. Look at the situation I linked re: the fines and infractions Dallas Crown had and how they used their financial largesse to drown the town in litigation that left the town crippled to do anything to make them comply with the rules Dallas Crown agreed to before they started up.

    Sensible people also recognize when their attempts to make something better are never going to be accepted or embraced, and when they have to change their tactics.

    When you can not enforce existing legislation to make things better, when those who nod and smile in agreement to your face, then behind your back keep doing what they agreed not to do... sensible people don't just shrug and forget about it.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #809
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    Quote Originally Posted by OBXPony View Post
    If I could find a way I would ship you some The Piggly Wiggley sells it for a good price down here although I am the one that at the store I will grab the cow tongue and walk up to a random stranger and act like I am licking them with it with noise included or grab the liver and in a loud voice tell my fiancee that "this should do for that liver transport for the guy, to bad the dog got the real thing"
    Rapa Brand...it's the best.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  10. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Rapa Brand...it's the best.
    to scared to try it My pepaw used to go out early every morning, kill a squirrel and have squirrel brains, chittlins, ham, biscuts, and eggs for breakfast I never could eat in the kitchen when it was cooking or he was eating it! ech yuck!



  11. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Rapa Brand...it's the best.
    Considering the thread I read this as "Rara Brand", and was suprised no one was concerned about what drugs all those raras contained when processed


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    Considering the thread I read this as "Rara Brand", and was suprised no one was concerned about what drugs all those raras contained when processed
    RaRa it's what's for dinner!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #813
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    You're right there should be no knee-jerk 'ban it' reaction.
    We know that the industry as it functioned in the US prior to the closing of the 3 last plants was problematic.
    There were attempts to make it better. Decades of trying to make it better, or at least to make it what it was supposed to be... to be what had been agreed to by all parties.
    I don't call decades of trying and watching as the industry broke the rules, and even when caught, avoided the consequences [David Carper anyone?] 'knee jerk'.

    A perfect, well documented case of the attempts to make the industry comply is Kaufman Texas/Dallas Crown... which addressed a myriad of issues [humane handling, the effects of the plant on the communities infrastructure and economy, etc]

    That didn't work out too well, for either party to be honesty. Look at the situation I linked re: the fines and infractions Dallas Crown had and how they used their financial largesse to drown the town in litigation that left the town crippled to do anything to make them comply with the rules Dallas Crown agreed to before they started up.

    Sensible people also recognize when their attempts to make something better are never going to be accepted or embraced, and when they have to change their tactics.

    When you can not enforce existing legislation to make things better, when those who nod and smile in agreement to your face, then behind your back keep doing what they agreed not to do... sensible people don't just shrug and forget about it.
    I just want to say thank you for a such a calm, reasoned response.

    I understand what you are saying, and would like to ask if there were things such as agreed upon observors (i.e. someone you trust to oversee) and you could document the various entities taking transport violations seriously, and extended testing of the product to ensure no drugs, would you at that point be "okay" with a US SH?



  14. #814
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    I'll admit I'm late to the party re the New Mexico plant. I just saw a little about how they were counting down to their grand opening and I have a few questions about how this is going to be different from before.

    Have they made any statements about how they have modified the defunct cattle plant to make it breed friendly for horses? Hopefully they will have installed non-slip flooring (a Temple Grandin MUST from previous interviews).

    How are they dealing with the drug situation. Are they requiring a 6 month feed lot situation previously or is this just not a problem with them or their prospective clients?

    Have they installed super heavy water and sewage systems as well as disposal of animal parts?

    Years back I tried to track down what the U.S. requirements are regarding drugs in plants here in the U.S. and couldn't get a good grip on regulations. Anyone have any better luck?

    I would hope that this will not just be business as usual.

    P.S. Angela, you are a virtual well of information about regulations. Appreciate it a lot.



  15. #815
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  16. #816
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jealoushe View Post
    Oh Brother, did you Read the print.. Extreme cruelty to shoot a horse??
    Or some such nonsense. OH man it is a sinking ship the ARA's will just love this. Yeah he can be fired, but the media people need to get there shit together, Oh yeah like that is ever going to happen.
    The man did not get fired becuase he was cruel to a horse, he got fired for making an ass out of himself and making valley meats look bad.
    And let me just say this for the Trillionth time. Shooting a horse clean in the head is NOT animal cruelty. He did not beat that horse and the horse did not suffer. Up until that point, the horse was happily eating grass.
    NOT the issue! What he did do was make him self ARA fodder, and lose his job for his assholery of taping it. not to mention AGAIN, that this was done a year ago, and his daughter just put it up on the internet. Are we clear?
    It has ZERO to do with Horse slaughter houses. He may have been an employee of valley meats, but until his smarty daughter posted the dame thing no one was the wiser, AND he processed it himself and eats horse.
    His right! OKAY?? Not defending the idiot, but lets get your priorities straight.
    Charming, someone from the NM livestock board said this?
    It's extreme cruelty, a penalty, to maliciously kill an animal
    Really? Was that malicious? What are the laws in NEw MExico?
    Insane!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  17. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post

    Years back I tried to track down what the U.S. requirements are regarding drugs in plants here in the U.S. and couldn't get a good grip on regulations. Anyone have any better luck?
    Requirements re: drugs in horses/horsemeat?

    My understanding is that the 3 plants that were here in the US [European owned] and those in Canada [Canadian and European owned?] and in Mexico [also European owned afaik] who ship the processed meat for human consumption followed EU regulations for the most part.

    It is my understanding that it's the regulations/requirements of the destination country that dictates.
    Makes sense based on what I found on the USDA website and the Japanese website/PDFs re: MRLs

    It seems that this is Fairfax's understanding as well, as he has commented a few times that Asian countries are less strict than EU requirements and will take US horse, drugs or not.



  18. #818
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    So I am taking this to mean that they can slaughter any horse with any sort of stuff in it without checking and then turn around and sell it to any gullible consuming country without any sort of penalty or guarantee?

    Sure gives them a lot of incentive to produce a quality product, doesn't it?

    How does this change if they decide to develop a local market within the U.S.?
    Last edited by betonbill; Mar. 26, 2013 at 12:58 PM. Reason: adding on x2



  19. #819
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    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    So I am taking this to mean that they can slaughter any horse with any sort of stuff in it without checking and then turn around and sell it to any gullible consuming country without any sort of penalty or guarantee?

    Sure gives them a lot of incentive to produce a quality product, doesn't it?
    That's not my understanding.

    For example the USDA site was very clear that Japan tests and will drop your license to import if you do not comply w/ their MRLs.
    Testing is how horse was found in food items ID'ing the meat as beef... and then bute was found in that horse.

    So they are testing.

    Now how often do they test and how thoroughly [the European thing stated they found bute in the horse that was mislabeled as beef, but did not mention testing or results for other, also banned, also harmful and also commonly used medications]?
    I think that is the big question.

    I would imagine the frequency of testing in the past will now be increased now that the consumers are aware of the whole mess.
    But then we all know how big corp. likes to do things when we're not looking... so I don't have alot of confidence either.



  20. #820
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Bluey do you just cut and paste a similar response, no matter what you're responding to?
    Wait a minute, who is the one here that keeps bringing animal rights extremist propaganda here, who keeps starting such threads, who is telling others to quit posting if they don't agree with all that they keep posting, time and again the same, that has been time and again already refuted in so many ways?

    Oh, yes, check that out and then come to say it is I who keeps repeating themselves and you will see, "it ain't me".



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