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  1. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    After visiting the Canadian SH's Temple Grandin had offered to be the third party with 24 hour feeds coming directly to her office/home.

    No-one took her up on her offer.

    But let's say the plants would now have someone capable of watching them anytime they wanted to. What about the auction, transport and feedlots.

    The USDA FOIA request pictures showed that the injured/dead horses arrived in those conditions at the plant. The USDA could not identify whether the horses were loaded with pre-existing injuries or sustained them during transport.
    Obviously the dead horses did die during transport.
    As I've said the laws need upheld as far as treatment during auctions and transport.
    But really, is that the reason not to have SH in the US? Auctions and transport are issues that need fixed regardless of where the SH are located. I doubt more horses are going to be sold and shipped; demand isn't going to exponentialy increase just because the US has slaughterhouses, it's just changing the geographics and likely shortening the trip for some.


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  2. #722
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    In the past when there was trouble with the slaughter process with other animals (think downer cows, think those guy abusing the dairy cattle a few years back) there was generally a very loud apology and change made by the companies involved, people fired, etc.

    Can anyone remember any sort of similar statement or change made by the HS industry? I can't think of one offhand, but I would really hope that I am wrong.

    BTW, I would be fine with tapes publically reviewed by someone like Temple Grandin. We wouldn't have to actually see the process, but an oral or written review might help to reassure a lot of people.


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  3. #723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    yes. and that is the only reason why I still bother to participate in this musical chairs even without taking chairs out:
    shoot one argument out, we skip to the next, rinse repeat until we are back at the first one, slightly differently worded, maybe by another person.

    puking coat hangers comes to mind....
    PUKING COAT HANGERS???
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  4. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    PUKING COAT HANGERS???
    yes, it's about as much fun as the game mentioned...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  5. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    yes, it's about as much fun as the game mentioned...
    AGH! Well I still say I go and dig up the old slaughter threads, there are tons of them, all saying the same thing.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  6. #726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Jetsmom

    I do have some information. I couldn't find anything and I was going to wait until Wednesday when I go into the city and I would check out the archives. I tracked down William MacFarlane who used to the the Alberta rovoing reporter for CFCN TV

    In a matter of minutes he gave me the information. There were four individuals two women and two young ladies. The later threw the crackers and it turned out they were juveniles with their Moms. William was on his way to the Fort when they were told to get over to Medicine Hat. There a 12 year old girl and her 23 year old boyfriend were missing and the bodies of her Mom, Dad and brother were found in the basement wstabbed to death. They feared for the daughter until a few days later it turned out SHE was also involved and helped the boyfriend because her parents had refused to allow her to date him

    In Canada the media are NOT allowed to report, other than just the incident IF it involves juveniles ( I didn't know the firecrackers involved juveniles) The case received NO media attention..he thinks there might be a small article in a paper and he will check with his contacts tomorrow.

    The murder case did eventually identify the juvenile female...kinda hard not to when the townspepole in Medicine Hat knew them or about them and it was leaked on the internet.

    I was incorrect on the year It was 2006 (hard to believe I have lived here almost 9 years)

    I will see if I can locate the provincial docket as there should be some information ... I was told they were given a restraining order for the plant and also something to do with no contact with animals for a specific time however if trhey received juvenile probation that would be standard for any charge involving animals. One would think they could check out the two adult women however IF there is a crime involving juveniles there is a no release for ALL parties concerned.

    I have always been against the protection of juveniles from public exposure due to their actions but that is the law. Many have tried to have it overturned to no avail but maybe with the internet they will eventually remove or change it
    So who threw the firecrackers? The juveniles or the moms. What AR group were they aligned with? How do they know they were AR activists, not just kids screwing around?


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  7. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    AGH! Well I still say I go and dig up the old slaughter threads, there are tons of them, all saying the same thing.
    yep.
    for more than 6 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  8. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    it's just changing the geographics and likely shortening the trip for some.
    And that has been disproven over and over again.

    I just looked at an invoice for Ryon Simon from Feb. 21, 2013
    He shipped 37 horses from Cannon Falls, MN to Intermeats in Aguascalientes, MX
    He was paid 48 cents per pound.

    On Feb 15, 2013 he shipped 35 horses from Cannon Falls, MN to Intermeats as well. 48 cents per pound.

    Why is he not shipping these horses to Canada, obviously much closer.
    Probably getting a much better price in MX.

    Of course it's about the money, not the welfare......

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    And that has been disproven over and over again.

    I just looked at an invoice for Ryon Simon from Feb. 21, 2013
    He shipped 37 horses from Cannon Falls, MN to Intermeats in Aguascalientes, MX
    He was paid 48 cents per pound.

    On Feb 15, 2013 he shipped 35 horses from Cannon Falls, MN to Intermeats as well. 48 cents per pound.

    Why is he not shipping these horses to Canada, obviously much closer.
    Probably getting a much better price in MX.

    Of course it's about the money, not the welfare......
    As I said, "shorten the trip for some".
    Is the ride cruel for some now? Is that going to become more cruel if some chose to go to a new in-country SH?



  10. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by OBXPony View Post
    I put that question out there because then regular joes hurting for money can rent/borrow/buy a trailer and haul the horses to the plants themselves in their own country without needing any paper work to cross the boarder. on one major extreme say a jonesing meth head heard little dobbin could be worth $75 at a plant that is only 50 bucks. someone loans him a trailer and voila he now can buy his meth. Again that is a major extreme as I cannot see a jonesing meth head being able to catch a horse or being smart enough.
    on increase- http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/L...199760831.html

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...eft/51136118/1



  11. #731
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    I find it disturbing that many of these anti-slaughter ladies object indignantly to 'their' tax money paying for inspectors at the slaughter plants, yet are so very happy to have their tax money used to pay for late-term abortions, which so often result in viable babies (who are then killed by snapping their necks, or placing in a closet until dead!) How can they be so militantly against the use of dead horses as meat, yet be so in favor of killing the unborn? Very, very disturbing. And all of this 'quit calling us ra ra's' is comical! 98% of the anti-slaughter clan are card-carrying peta, hsus, alf, etc. members, planted on these types of forums to foment division.
    Wow, the winner for totally off the rail, craziest post of this whole long thread! I don't think there was even a single fact in any of the ridiculousness. Whole lot of crazy and a complete miss of everything that has gone on in this thread.
    Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
    Home of Fitz, Max, Daeo & Austria
    Now over the Rainbow Bridge: Finn, Jake & Seamus


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #732
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    OK, now it's hit Yahoo News, big!

    I imagine Valley Meats has already abandoned that little business plan.

    Pity that pretty little 2-year old had to be the martyr.

    Every day I have to fight harder my disgust at the human race.



  13. #733
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    OK, now it's hit Yahoo News, big!

    I imagine Valley Meats has already abandoned that little business plan.

    Pity that pretty little 2-year old had to be the martyr.

    Every day I have to fight harder my disgust at the human race.
    Nope don't think so, go read the Bloomberg business news. 3 days ago,
    It will happen, almost there. And the little chestnut was killed a YEAR ago.
    Maybe you should be more disgusted by what people do to each other.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #734
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    So who threw the firecrackers? The juveniles or the moms. What AR group were they aligned with? How do they know they were AR activists, not just kids screwing around?
    I won't know until I find out more information. According to William it was the "kids" who were identified as throwing the crackers which would make sense. The Mom's would know they could not be held accountable. I do recall the plant manager told me the ladies were identified as PETA (self proclaimed?) All of this I will check this midweek on my city trip.



  15. #735
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    Sadly that is likely to be true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cielo Azure View Post
    8-20 percent of our meat is imported. The USDA estimates are that 14% ofthese meats are from South America (SA). IF that meat is processed (cooked, frozen, mixed with other ingredients), it does not have to be labeled as anything other than coming from the USA (Cool rules/USDA). Much of SA still uses "hook and shackle" methods for slaughter, which most would agree is inhumane. Much of SA still processes cattle and horse in the same plants, with little inspection and no separation. The USDA is not testing imported meats via DNA analysis to see if it contains horse meat and they have no intentions of doing so. What in the world makes anyone think that if they are eating processed foods, they aren't already eating horsemeat???? Take off your blinders folks, you ARE eating horse meat.

    http://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/...x#.UU9nCltATKA



  16. #736
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    Much like the Wizard of Oz.
    A very excellent point.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    LOL, I agree, but I was using HSUS as that is who everyone keeps mentioning; make it a horse council, whatever. The takeaway is that if someone was observing who interested average people felt like they could trust to be telling the truth about what was going on much of the anti message wouldn't be getting the traction it is.

    As a average person, I see the extremists posting videos, pictures, and stories about atrocities, and I hear the SH and their proponents saying "nothing to see here, trust us, it's all okay, they're lying......but we aren't interested in doing a damn thing to make you believe us." Yeah, that will work.


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  17. #737
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    McDonald's made a huge change in how the cattle for their hamburgers were handled. They hired TG and designed some really state of the art processing plants. You can find videos of it on Youtube. As much as possible they eliminated humans out of the process.



    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    But we aren't talking about beef plants (who have done PR things to try to assure the average joe that they are as humane as possible), we are talking about animals a greater percentage of the population feels warm fuzzies about and is less comfortable about the idea of slaughtering them.

    And a proven impartial observor or two or even, god forbid, 5 or 6 is not the same as high school classes making their way through a plant (yes, was there in high school and have been since, and it wasn't a bid deal to put on the required equipment).
    Or, as suggested before, allow those observors to view the tapes on a regular basis; how is that going to effect the day-to-day business of running the plant? The only effect it should have on a well-run plant is a bit less worry about the possible bad publicity from the extremists.


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  18. #738
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    Sadly that is likely to be true.
    Another reason to only eat local known grass fed cattle.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


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  19. #739
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    Every year over 100,000 American horses are transported to Canada and Mexico to be slaughtered and their meat shipped to Europe for human consumption. Horse meat is considered a delicacy in Europe costing around $20. per pound

    http://www.americanhorsemeat.com/

    Beef is 4-5$ per pound in U S for grass fed


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  20. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Every year over 100,000 American horses are transported to Canada and Mexico to be slaughtered and their meat shipped to Europe for human consumption. Horse meat is considered a delicacy in Europe costing around $20. per pound

    http://www.americanhorsemeat.com/

    Beef is 4-5$ per pound in U S for grass fed
    Unless you get Kobe beef! The darn things are fed beer and given massages! 100 dollars a lb.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



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