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  1. #601
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    if they can place rabies infected organs into people from a guy who himself was infected how can they insure meat from a rabies infected animal doesn't make its way into our food system? I just thought of this, I am going vegan I think......


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  2. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    When the plant was closed, the illustrious HSUS president gave an interview to the Dallas paper and was bragging that his herd of lawyers, if I remember well he assigned ten of them to this, were the ones that made it happen, getting the plant closed by finding that one 1947 law, intended to avoid horse meat being sold as beef and making a case in front of a helpful judge that meant no horse meat was to be sold at all.

    Now, what were you saying again, that the HSUS didn't help close the plants?
    And you call me myopic?

    I was saying that clearly, well before the closing of the Kaufman plant , there was an opportunity to work within the court system to at least cost the plant plenty, if not close them down sooner ... but I can't find anything to say HSUS was involved in that.
    It's interesting.



  3. #603
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    A couple of middle ground points:

    1) I pay $1 into beef Checkoff for every cow I sell. That's it. If I take one to auction, the auction house pays it out of the sale price. Such a thing would be so easy to implement.

    2) The paranoia of the Government/Obama is trying to destroy my way of life is really over the top. Yes, there are extremists on both sides. As long as reasonably minded people are involved in politics, nothing is going to change drastically. Also, please do remember that plenty of bad laws have been passed only to be recalled after unintended consequences were discovered.

    3) I don't think a single person who has been around horses for any length of time has not come across a crazy one. It happens, just as it does with dogs and people. Some horses are too dangerous and many others are too complicated for the limited number of knowledgeable trainers to handle. When this happens, we need an out that will allow us to conserve resources needed to help other horses. Just like the pound, some potentially good horses will be lost because there aren't enough homes. I wish we could all afford to give them a dignified end. Most of us will do the right thing by our own horses but we can't force others to do the same. Unfortunately, even the most bleeding heart on here must admit that not everyone has the resources. In a perfect world, they wouldn't own horses. This isn't a perfect world and people have free will. That will not change.

    4) Inexperienced, unrealistic, and unprepared people with too much money will continue to buy and breed horses. We cannot regulate them out of existence in a free country. We need options to deal with the substandard animals they produce.

    5) The bottom line is that we can't save them all. Save what you can, care for yours the best you know how and educate those people as best you can.

    6) Slaughterhouses in Mexico are horrific. We can do better here and the money will stay here in our own country. That money can be taxed to help horses. It is foolish to send the horses on longer trips to a more brutal end when we can make safer more humane slaughterhouses here using the expertise of the best minds in the industry (Dr. Grandin, for example).

    7) I don't like slaughter nor would I ever send one of mine 'down the road' but I don't think there is any other viable option for horses that fall through the cracks. We can work on those cracks, however. I don't want it to be the only solution. I would like education, taxes and viable alternatives to be in place, but in the end, we should not take that option away. If a particular area has enough resources in place, then the kill buyers will walk away empty handed. We should all look in our own part of the country and figure out the biggest contributors to the auctions and find a way to change the fate of the horses in their care.

    Sitting behind a computer and tearing each other apart over ideals is accomplishing nothing but earning money for pharmaceutical companies for drugs to lower your blood pressure. Educate the next generation via 4H, FFA, and other avenues. Work towards change in your breed association. If you love Quarter Horses, for example, seek out higher positions in the AQHA and try to turn the tide against destructive breeding practices, such as HYPP positive halter horses. That is what we should concentrate on rather than attacking each other.

    The answer isn't yelling at each other over the internet. The answer is buckling down and working. Let the slaughterhouses open as a last resort but lower the number of animals sent there by doing your part.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by OBXPony View Post
    if they can place rabies infected organs into people from a guy who himself was infected how can they insure meat from a rabies infected animal doesn't make its way into our food system? I just thought of this, I am going vegan I think......
    Of course, plants are so clean ...


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  5. #605
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    Mar. 18, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    It's interesting with all the money the HSUS has to throw around and as tenacious as many make them out to be on this horse slaughter issue, HSUS did nothing, that I can find to help the citizens of Kaufman TX when the plant was not only not paying their taxes and fines, but also stretching out the process so as to make it financially impossible for the town to fight them:

    Over one six-week period, Kaufman issued 29 citations for wastewater violations, each accompanied by a potential fine of $2,000. Dallas Crown responded by requesting 29 separate jury trials, potentially causing yet another economic strain on the city’s budget.

    Kaufman could not afford to litigate in order to collect the fines, which went unpaid. “But things got a lot worse,” says Bacon. During a 19-month period in 2004–2005, there were 481 violations, at which point Dallas Crown refused entry to Kaufman’s engineers, preventing them from doing any environmental tests for nine months.


    http://www.forbes.com/sites/vickerye...cks-some-tail/
    The unpaid fine issue at Kaufman has nothing to do with horse slaughter. It was poor business management. This has been explained to you on multiple occasions, but you insist it is a reason to ban an industry. Are you saying anytime a company does not pay it's fines we should shut down and ban the industry they are involved in? If we do there will be no companies operating in America.
    I support equine meat processing as an option for those who choose to use it.


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  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    When the plant was closed, the illustrious HSUS president gave an interview to the Dallas paper and was bragging that his herd of lawyers, if I remember well he assigned ten of them to this, were the ones that made it happen, getting the plant closed by finding that one 1947 law, intended to avoid horse meat being sold as beef and making a case in front of a helpful judge that meant no horse meat was to be sold at all.

    Now, what were you saying again, that the HSUS didn't help close the plants?
    Since you claim to know so much about the HSUS you should also be aware that they love to hang their coat tails on things they had nothing to do with.

    Again, IMO HSUS is not interested in shutting down the horse slaughter process. It would dry up their donations from that avenue.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


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  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Yes, except there are no multi-million non-profits watching the cameras pointed at the office workers and wanting to shut them all, the whole process of working in offices down for the least infraction, maybe picking their nose would count?
    The idea behind the third party monitoring was to ensure humane handling, not shutting a plant down.

    As the AG Gag laws are being introduced in several states, it's quite obvious that the industry is not interested in proving a humane process in any plant.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


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  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    The idea behind the third party monitoring was to ensure humane handling, not shutting a plant down.

    As the AG Gag laws are being introduced in several states, it's quite obvious that the industry is not interested in proving a humane process in any plant.
    That is the excuse of animal rights extremists, but in reality, why would they want to do any other than find fault to eliminate yet one more use of animals, "save the slaves", as they say?

    Tell me, where are any non-profits intending on ending all you do, as animal rights extremists are against any we do with animals?

    There is no one extremely rich non-profit against religions, wanting to shut all churches and making religious services illegal?
    Or say, against having people work in offices, lets free the slaves, no more offices to keep people working their lives there in confinement, who ever thought that is right?

    Yes, those that work with animals are on the defensive, not because they are doing anything wrong, but because they are under assault by those mega million groups, intending to eliminate any use of animals.

    There are other ways to inspect and oversee that are already in use, no need to accept some breaking already existing laws to further agendas.

    Those gag laws are maybe not the way to go about keeping undesirables out of where they should not be, but something really has to be done.
    Remember the story of the ones throwing firecrackers into the chute, so the horses would be taped scared and scrambling?


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  9. #609
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    A little clarity on the Ag Gag laws...and from the Daily Paul, which is a libertarian website.

    "Since trespassing is already illegal, ag gag laws can only have one clear motive: to punish whistleblowers, advocates, and investigative reporters who use undercover recordings to reveal the abysmal conditions in which our food is produced. Undercover investigations have captured factory farms all over the country abusing livestock, passing off sick cattle as healthy, and discharging unregulated amounts of animal manure, which the US Geological Survey identified as the largest source of nitrogen pollution in the country."

    http://www.dailypaul.com/276305/stat...whistleblowers
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  10. #610
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    That and the Mustangs........

    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Since you claim to know so much about the HSUS you should also be aware that they love to hang their coat tails on things they had nothing to do with.




    Again, IMO HSUS is not interested in shutting down the horse slaughter process. It would dry up their donations from that avenue.



  11. #611
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    I find it disturbing that many of these anti-slaughter ladies object indignantly to 'their' tax money paying for inspectors at the slaughter plants, yet are so very happy to have their tax money used to pay for late-term abortions, which so often result in viable babies (who are then killed by snapping their necks, or placing in a closet until dead!) How can they be so militantly against the use of dead horses as meat, yet be so in favor of killing the unborn? Very, very disturbing. And all of this 'quit calling us ra ra's' is comical! 98% of the anti-slaughter clan are card-carrying peta, hsus, alf, etc. members, planted on these types of forums to foment division.


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  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    I find it disturbing that many of these anti-slaughter ladies object indignantly to 'their' tax money paying for inspectors at the slaughter plants, yet are so very happy to have their tax money used to pay for late-term abortions, which so often result in viable babies (who are then killed by snapping their necks, or placing in a closet until dead!) How can they be so militantly against the use of dead horses as meat, yet be so in favor of killing the unborn? Very, very disturbing. And all of this 'quit calling us ra ra's' is comical! 98% of the anti-slaughter clan are card-carrying peta, hsus, alf, etc. members, planted on these types of forums to foment division.
    OK- After that, I don't ever want to see another pro slaughter poster saying the anti slaughter people are nuts... I think this post just proved that exaggeration, and lies are rampant on the pro side...


    4 members found this post helpful.

  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    I find it disturbing that many of these anti-slaughter ladies object indignantly to 'their' tax money paying for inspectors at the slaughter plants, yet are so very happy to have their tax money used to pay for late-term abortions, which so often result in viable babies (who are then killed by snapping their necks, or placing in a closet until dead!) How can they be so militantly against the use of dead horses as meat, yet be so in favor of killing the unborn? Very, very disturbing. And all of this 'quit calling us ra ra's' is comical! 98% of the anti-slaughter clan are card-carrying peta, hsus, alf, etc. members, planted on these types of forums to foment division.
    Whoa.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  14. #614
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    Jun. 19, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    A little clarity on the Ag Gag laws...and from the Daily Paul, which is a libertarian website.

    "Since trespassing is already illegal, ag gag laws can only have one clear motive: to punish whistleblowers, advocates, and investigative reporters who use undercover recordings to reveal the abysmal conditions in which our food is produced. Undercover investigations have captured factory farms all over the country abusing livestock, passing off sick cattle as healthy, and discharging unregulated amounts of animal manure, which the US Geological Survey identified as the largest source of nitrogen pollution in the country."

    http://www.dailypaul.com/276305/stat...whistleblowers
    ]
    Absolutely nothing to do with equine slaughter plants

    Here they are used for efficiency, handling techniques, ongoing employee training, AND the bonus incentive for quiet and humane movement of the horses. These tapes are NOT available to the public but they are available to the government inspectors 24/7.

    No videos from outside sources are allowed and individuals going into the plant must have a reason and an appointment. All bags are checked because videos can be altered and have been in the past.

    The anti crowd are NOT very honest when it comes to showing a slaughter run that is clean and UNEVENTFUL. They always have claims that someone is covering up something....same as the anti carriage group in New York City



  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    That is the excuse of animal rights extremists, but in reality, why would they want to do any other than find fault to eliminate yet one more use of animals, "save the slaves", as they say?

    Bluey, why do you find it so hard to believe that there are people who are NOT extremists that would simply like to know it is done right, done well, without having to take the word of those with with possible agendas?

    I don't believe all the extremists' stories at face value, but I also will not take the word of those whose livelihoods are at risk at face value. But you sound like you believe that the only people who will be watching are those with stopping all animal use in mind.
    That is pretty short-sighted and only alienates many of us that could be on your side; how does that help?


    Yes, those that work with animals are on the defensive, not because they are doing anything wrong, but because they are under assault by those mega million groups, intending to eliminate any use of animals.

    But refusing to work with or make concessions to those of us that are
    okay with slaughter done right is helping them how? Keeping on insisting that everything is running humanely but not being willing to provide proof to counteract the "antis" is helping them how?


    There are other ways to inspect and oversee that are already in use, no need to accept some breaking already existing laws to further agendas.

    And as a normal person i know these inspections and oversight procedures are accurate measures how? What does an average joe have as proof other than the slaughterhouse's word or the word of an inspector (and there have been issues with inspectors in the past, correct?) which is countered by the word of extremists?

    Those gag laws are maybe not the way to go about keeping undesirables out of where they should not be, but something really has to be done.
    Remember the story of the ones throwing firecrackers into the chute, so the horses would be taped scared and scrambling?

    Again, if there were available tapes of entire day of the 'firecracker" episode, whose "side" would be damaged? The "antis", who would be exposed to the general public as the creators of the incident, would be seen for what they are willing to do, and the plant would have been seen as the victim of harrassment.

    But you're right, better to make a bunch of laws which only serve to make it look like you're hiding something and are afraid of what may be seen rather than proverbially "open your doors to all" and let people see that you are doing all you can to ensure the process is as humane as possible (and how are they going to throw firecrackers and do damage while watching a tape from aother locations??).
    .


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  16. #616
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    Fairfax, you're in Canada right? How do the U.S. Ag Gag rules affect you? And yes, it has nothing to do with equine slaughter at this time, because there are no equine slaughter plants in the U.S.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  17. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    A little clarity on the Ag Gag laws...and from the Daily Paul, which is a libertarian website.

    "Since trespassing is already illegal, ag gag laws can only have one clear motive: to punish whistleblowers, advocates, and investigative reporters who use undercover recordings to reveal the abysmal conditions in which our food is produced. Undercover investigations have captured factory farms all over the country abusing livestock, passing off sick cattle as healthy, and discharging unregulated amounts of animal manure, which the US Geological Survey identified as the largest source of nitrogen pollution in the country."

    http://www.dailypaul.com/276305/stat...whistleblowers
    Actually, the issue as I understand it is you can't charge someone with trespassing if you have hired an "undercover operative" or invited them on site under false pretenses: you have already given them permission to enter.

    Not that I think the Ag Gag laws are the way to go; I disagree with them completely.


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  18. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    I find it disturbing that many of these anti-slaughter ladies object indignantly to 'their' tax money paying for inspectors at the slaughter plants, yet are so very happy to have their tax money used to pay for late-term abortions, which so often result in viable babies (who are then killed by snapping their necks, or placing in a closet until dead!) How can they be so militantly against the use of dead horses as meat, yet be so in favor of killing the unborn? Very, very disturbing. And all of this 'quit calling us ra ra's' is comical! 98% of the anti-slaughter clan are card-carrying peta, hsus, alf, etc. members, planted on these types of forums to foment division.
    Whoa. You MUST be trolling, right?


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  19. #619
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    Not trolling. Just trying to condense the thread to a paragraph or two. It seems the anti-slaughter ra ra's are okay with shooting a horse in the head and burying it, as long as you can hold annual vigils and put flowers on its grave. But oh boy, you'd better not even think about using the horses' bodies for meat! The ra ra's must be very emotionally torn. For instance, Carol from Oklahoma has quit AHF and Oklahoma has voted to allow slaughter. Yet, she had proposed that people raise herds of horses on property adjacent to the plants and process those horses, but not the general public's horses. How can she or the other ra ra's believe that is okay?



  20. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    .
    You lack the proper information to judge.

    There are contracts that specify in detail what is expected of the companies that provide the products, including the handling and processing of any animals involved in the process.
    Those are spelling in detail what is acceptable and how it will be measured and by whom.

    That is where the independent auditing companies, TG herself has one, provide those services.

    NO ONE wants to do things wrong at any level, that is just bashing talk by the ones trying to eliminate all uses of animals, myths and misinformation and any data or videos and such used for their propaganda, to further their agendas, taken out of context and released just at the right time.
    One example, when some votes are close, as in the one video of a worker in a dairy beating some calves right before the votes, that would have closed all dairies in WI were to happen.

    Thankfully voters realized that video and such are isolated incidents and used by animal rights extremists to muddle the issues and get them to vote against any use of animals, there in dairies.

    There is so much more than what is obvious and, by the time the general public catches on, it probably will be too late for all, including our uses of horses.
    That doesn't mean we should quit trying to defend ourselves from those attacks.



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