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  1. #541
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    The name calling and BS by the same posters get tiresome, just like being called a "troll" by Jswan on the hunting forum for calling her out on California BS there. It seems the name calling starts up when the same posters get called out...


    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #542
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    These threads are just so utterly predictable. It's always Bluey and Jswan and a couple of determined but unaware newbies who have not yet discovered that Bluey (who actually is enjoyable enough if the topic is changed) and Jswan live for these opportunities to rant and rave in a hysterical fashion about the boogie men animal rights people who are coming to take our pets away from all of us.

    Why even bother people?
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  3. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donella View Post

    PETA and ALF etc ALL are willing to injur and kill animals to make a point. I already experienced that at Fort MacLeod.


    What exactly happened at FM involving PETA and ALF? Do you work there or something?
    Fairfax keeps mentioning something about Fireworks and PETA at a SH in Ft McLeod, but I've searched for anything on it, throughout the internet, using a variety of search terms, and can't find any mention of it. Maybe he can link to an article, because if PETA really did do something like that, then there woukld be something in the news somewhere.



  4. #544
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    Well I live in Alberta and have never heard of such a thing (though not saying it didn't happen). Anyways I deleted my comment because I just don't even want to get into it...these "arguments" are useless. I am curious though just because I live near FM.....
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #545
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    Sorry Bluey but when I've had to put a horse down - that's exactly the LAST thing I'm thinking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Horse owners with a horse needing euthanizing for any one of many reasons that is done, that is ambulatory and not stressed by going places, as so many horses are not, would do what most everyone has been doing for some years now.
    They shoot it or have the vet euthanize the horse and stand there sadly, wondering about a society that, on some odd ideology, wantonly in it's riches, wastes all that such horse carcasses used to and still could have been used once more thru slaughter, now discarded to the trash pile.
    Not even counting that the carcass went from an asset with a value to a liability to be disposed at cost.
    Just doesn't make much sense, does it.
    The rest of the world looks on and wonders at the "rich americans" and their wasteful ways.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  6. #546
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    JSwan can speak coherently on the subject. I would hardly consider her ranting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donella View Post
    These threads are just so utterly predictable. It's always Bluey and Jswan and a couple of determined but unaware newbies who have not yet discovered that Bluey (who actually is enjoyable enough if the topic is changed) and Jswan live for these opportunities to rant and rave in a hysterical fashion about the boogie men animal rights people who are coming to take our pets away from all of us.

    Why even bother people?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  7. #547
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    [QUOTE=jetsmom;6899989]
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post

    Well, here's an offer...
    I'll buy 2 Mare stare type cameras if Fairfax can get a horse SH in Canada to agree to install one for the stun box and one for the hanging rail, and get mgmt. to agree to allow them to film nonstop for 1 week without letting the employees know it's being filmed. And allow it to be viewed by those interested. If there is a less than 10% miss rate where horses need to be re-stunned and no major humane handling violations like a horse regaining consciousness when hung, 2 horses in stun box at once when one is killed, or using cattle prod on head of horse, then I'll donate 500.00 to any charity he likes, and publicly apologize for remarks about SH's.
    MUST REPLY! Cause wether you are pro or anti Jets mom, THAT is exactly what is needed.. 24 hour surveillance And thank you for stating what to me is the ONLY ANSWER! Bravo. I do not care what others say, correct me if I am wrong but was it not a beef slaughter house in CA last year that had abuses and they did just that with a video and all problems stopped like magic?
    I know that is the one thing Temple Grandin said in an interview about the canadian slaughter house. I do not think there is a better answer! Nuff said.
    Okay I will sit back and wait for the negative comments.OOPS Sorry edited to add.. it was jetsmom quoting moonover mississipi. That is what I get for posting before coffee.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #548
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    Of course, all those antis don't listen at all, that is why we have to repeat the same over and over and over again.

    I have already stated there ARE already surveillance cameras and independent auditors and why that is so, why those are not on youtube for all to see, as some would love to have, to pick at all and everything anyone does and give it their "interesting" spin.

    Where does asking for general public access to streaming videos of any work place, especially a slaughter plant, makes any sense, but to animal rights extremists with agendas?

    For those that don't believe who the HSUS really is and what they are after, well, there is enough out there to prove what I say, including the lawsuit they lost after finally being caught paying someone to lie about abuse in a circus.

    When any of us present irrefutable reasons to be careful of animal rights extremist groups, like the truths in those web sites, then there are attacks on the messenger and absolute silence on what is exposed and a change to another subject of attack, as some just did when I again posted the links and why those are true, go back to the old worn abuse or mismanagement card, that has been explained again time again as not a reason to ban slaughter.

    I don't care if there is or not a slaughter plant in the USA, best really if there was not, less of a target for animal rights extremists, but I do think it is foolish to ban slaughter, that is a perfectly good process to use the one natural, renewable resource SOME horses have always been for us thru it.
    Please, those that still don't understand what "natural" and "resource" are, go back to grade school and get a refresher on what you obviously missed.

    You ignore what animal rights extremists do, that will affect all of us that have animals so cavalierly, on your zest to ban slaughter or else?
    Cutting your nose to spite your face.



  9. #549
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    [QUOTE=Sannois;6900161]
    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    MUST REPLY! Cause wether you are pro or anti Jets mom, THAT is exactly what is needed.. 24 hour surveillance And thank you for stating what to me is the ONLY ANSWER! Bravo. I do not care what others say, correct me if I am wrong but was it not a beef slaughter house in CA last year that had abuses and they did just that with a video and all problems stopped like magic?
    I know that is the one thing Temple Grandin said in an interview about the canadian slaughter house. I do not think there is a better answer! Nuff said.
    Okay I will sit back and wait for the negative comments.OOPS Sorry edited to add.. it was jetsmom quoting moonover mississipi. That is what I get for posting before coffee.
    Sannois, I will try one more time, hope not to offend, but where does that any one place of work lets any one that wants to in there "to watch they do it right"?
    Where does anyone demand they have videos streaming so all can see that "they do it right?"

    That is an absurd demand and that is why animal rights extremists make such, they know the gullible will follow their thought there and not think on how absurd that is.

    How would you feel if you had video cameras streaming all day long in what you do to any and all out there, just to be sure you do what you do right?
    In your Drs office, in hospital exam and operating rooms?

    How far do we want nanny cams in all we do, to be sure to catch those few that may abuse by not doing their job or do it right and that be out there for all the public to comment on, ALL of it?

    We already have inspectors and regulations and now independent observers.
    What else do we want that makes sense and why do absurd demands by animal rights extremists even get traction in some minds?
    Follow the pattern, if there were open video streaming, what do you think animal rights extremists would do with that?
    Remember the "ick" factor so much we do in life has, including slaughter.
    How will that go over as daily entertainment of the masses?

    Right.



  10. #550
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    [QUOTE=Bluey;6900207]
    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post

    Sannois, I will try one more time, hope not to offend, but where does that any one place of work lets any one that wants to in there "to watch they do it right"?
    Where does anyone demand they have videos streaming so all can see that "they do it right?"

    That is an absurd demand and that is why animal rights extremists make such, they know the gullible will follow their thought there and not think on how absurd that is.

    How would you feel if you had video cameras streaming all day long in what you do to any and all out there, just to be sure you do what you do right?
    In your Drs office, in hospital exam and operating rooms?

    How far do we want nanny cams in all we do, to be sure to catch those few that may abuse by not doing their job or do it right and that be out there for all the public to comment on, ALL of it?

    We already have inspectors and regulations and now independent observers.
    What else do we want that makes sense and why do absurd demands by animal rights extremists even get traction in some minds?
    Follow the pattern, if there were open video streaming, what do you think animal rights extremists would do with that?
    Remember the "ick" factor so much we do in life has, including slaughter.
    How will that go over as daily entertainment of the masses?

    Right.
    Well, I am sure if I took the time, there are places that have cameras all the time. work places. Quality control no?
    So this makes me seem like an anti? I am an i don't care!
    I am sooo over the constant same thing stated over and over by the same few people in these threads. I found one going back to 2001. Same cast of characters for the most part.
    I see your point, I do not think the "Masses" need to view them,
    But an appropriate official.
    I am out of talk, I can only say, I wish people had this much concern for what is happening to our country, instead of horses. And I love horses, but I love America and my freedom more, but that topic is best left off of here.
    I am done. No offense taken Bluey.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  11. #551
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    [QUOTE=Sannois;6900220]
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Well, I am sure if I took the time, there are places that have cameras all the time. work places. Quality control no?
    So this makes me seem like an anti? I am an i don't care!
    I am sooo over the constant same thing stated over and over by the same few people in these threads. I found one going back to 2001. Same cast of characters for the most part.
    I see your point, I do not think the "Masses" need to view them,
    But an appropriate official.
    I am out of talk, I can only say, I wish people had this much concern for what is happening to our country, instead of horses. And I love horses, but I love America and my freedom more, but that topic is best left off of here.
    I am done. No offense taken Bluey.
    Yes, many places have cameras, but not streaming for any and all on youtube to post and comment on them, especially those intent on closing them down.

    Just think, don't you consider the managers of the company doing the job, those of their customers, here Mc Donalds, Wendys, Krogers, Walmart, etc. and an independent company "an appropriate official"?



  12. #552
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    [QUOTE=Bluey;6900230]
    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post

    Just think, don't you consider the managers of the company doing the job, those of their customers, here Mc Donalds, Wendys, Krogers, etc. and an independent company "an appropriate official"?
    Sure, But then how do you satisfy the rantings and enragement of the Ra Ra's and keep them from telling fabrications or worse yet doing damage to business or employees. I think it is an endless question. it just goes round and round. Here is my final thought, I have never sent any one of my horses to slaughter, I have also never sold one. I have none now. I am upset by videos I see, mostly the foreign ones than the Canadian or past american ones, cause they are one instance repeated most likely. BUT I am sure in a Cattle slaughter house there are problems and misses, things that are inhumane, the CA business last summer. I still say care for your own, don't breed junk, don't over price your horses or misrepresent ones for sale, and if you have the means adopt or rescue one or two. You are doing the best for the animals in YOUR care. Horses are going to be slaughtered, it is a fact.
    Mental masturbation on an internet bulletin board will never save them, or change anything. Just my own opinion. Still like you Bluey!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  13. #553
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    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1296103
    To quote the mayor "get used to it".


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #554
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    It's sad to see two sides so entrenched that middle ground is impossible. Why must all issues be so black and white?



  15. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by newhorsemommy View Post
    I really just don't get this idea that if I am against horse slaughter, I must be a member or supporter of, or spy for, some radical organization. Stereotype much? I donate to my local SPCA and that is it. When I can, I donate to a local horse rescue that specializes in OTTBs. I have two horses. I ride them. I don't think riding horses is cruel. I have cats and dogs. I don't want to take anyone's cats or dogs or horses away.

    And I don't see a problem with a tax to fund a different solution. The livestock industry receives tons of subsidies paid for by the taxpayer. What's the difference? Everyone has to pay taxes for things they don't agree with. That's the way it works.

    And I really, really, find the condescending attitude of the some of the posters here towards people who have a different point of view nothing short of astounding. I was reading the thread on some KB that is offering horses for sale (prior to being shipped) and I was pretty well stunned by the instant paranoia and vitriol in response to the OP and another poster.

    I don't generally comment on, or read the slaughter threads, and now I know why.
    Now HERE's a constructive solution, FINALLY! Because most of the people I've known who are "breeding for the killers" horses of indifferent quality, and then frequently not properly training them, have one BIG, FAT thing in common:

    They are breeding for the tax write-off.

    They don't really have a ~USE~ or a ~MARKET~ for their output, because the entire point is to write it off against something else. I've known people with thousand-acre ranches and postage-stamp side yards who do this.

    What's the definition of a horse breeder? Someone who's making a large fortune into a small one. Since virtually no one MAKES money at it, they're generally writing off their losses and if we eliminate THAT, I guarantee you Quarter Horses will be on the Endangered Species List within five years!

    You'll still have a RIGHT to breed--you just won't be subsidized to produce surplus horses!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by microbovine View Post
    It's sad to see two sides so entrenched that middle ground is impossible. Why must all issues be so black and white?
    Good question? isn't that the way with all topics that are so controversial?
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by microbovine View Post
    It's sad to see two sides so entrenched that middle ground is impossible. Why must all issues be so black and white?
    Because animal rights extremists are after eliminating all animal uses by humans.
    "One generation and no more domestic animals and none too soon for me".

    How can you expect any middle ground when that is the mind set you are trying to work with to keep your rights to have and use animals as we do and have always done, in the many ways we have used them, including processing some of them once dead for even more uses?



  18. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donella View Post
    These threads are just so utterly predictable. It's always Bluey and Jswan and a couple of determined but unaware newbies who have not yet discovered that Bluey (who actually is enjoyable enough if the topic is changed) and Jswan live for these opportunities to rant and rave in a hysterical fashion about the boogie men animal rights people who are coming to take our pets away from all of us.

    Why even bother people?
    There are certain posters whom I readily visualize as "Snoopy's brother Spike." If it weren't for COTH, they would be sitting there talking to a cactus . . .


    3 members found this post helpful.

  19. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Now HERE's a constructive solution, FINALLY! Because most of the people I've known who are "breeding for the killers" horses of indifferent quality, and then frequently not properly training them, have one BIG, FAT thing in common:

    They are breeding for the tax write-off.

    They don't really have a ~USE~ or a ~MARKET~ for their output, because the entire point is to write it off against something else. I've known people with thousand-acre ranches and postage-stamp side yards who do this.

    What's the definition of a horse breeder? Someone who's making a large fortune into a small one. Since virtually no one MAKES money at it, they're generally writing off their losses and if we eliminate THAT, I guarantee you Quarter Horses will be on the Endangered Species List within five years!

    You'll still have a RIGHT to breed--you just won't be subsidized to produce surplus horses!
    I think you nailed it!
    In my own little world, here on the "farm" my property taxes are $4500 per year, BUT, if I were to say, maybe breed a few horses and sell them, I could reduce my taxes by over 2k a year! For me, it's not all about the money
    "My doctrine is this, that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt.”
    ― Anna Sewell


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #560
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    Actually, for years I've suggested that a Pittman-Robertson style Act; for the horse industry, would produce hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue that could be directed towards equine welfare.

    That Act was created by sportsmen, for conservation efforts in the US. Back in 1937. It is a tax on goods and ammunition - a self imposed tax because sportsmen saw that value in taxing themselves to protect natural resources for the public benefit.

    There is no reason a similar Act could not be created for the horse industry; a tiny tax on sales of tack or attire; the revenue is then collected and distributed to the states - specifically for equine welfare. Those fund could be used as grant money for things like euthanasia and disposal, gelding clinics, funds for caring of seized equines, etc.

    The answer to that suggestion was - silence. Every time. Same with any attempt at a technical discussion over federal law or regulation. Either the people aren't interested or (more likely) they don't know as much as they say they do about public policy and so are unable to engage in an interesting discussion.

    No issue is black or white; solutions to this particular issue are going to be multi-facted; and horse slaughter for human consumption need not be part of that solution necessarily. One way to end slaughter naturally is to dry up the supply.

    Personally, I'd rather not punish one segment of the horse industry, or make one aspect of the industry solely responsible for funding the nations equine welfare efforts. I think a Pittman-Robertson style Act on purchases could provide a small, but stable revenue stream that would encompass the entire industry as a whole.

    That does not seem unreasonable; and for those who say it cannot be done it already was done. In 1937. And look what was accomplished; and is still accomplished to this day. Sportsmen don't complain about the tax, we never have. Odd that riders appear to balk at paying a few cents on a bridle purchase to save a horse from slaughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Now HERE's a constructive solution, FINALLY! Because most of the people I've known who are "breeding for the killers" horses of indifferent quality, and then frequently not properly training them, have one BIG, FAT thing in common:

    They are breeding for the tax write-off.

    They don't really have a ~USE~ or a ~MARKET~ for their output, because the entire point is to write it off against something else. I've known people with thousand-acre ranches and postage-stamp side yards who do this.

    What's the definition of a horse breeder? Someone who's making a large fortune into a small one. Since virtually no one MAKES money at it, they're generally writing off their losses and if we eliminate THAT, I guarantee you Quarter Horses will be on the Endangered Species List within five years!

    You'll still have a RIGHT to breed--you just won't be subsidized to produce surplus horses!
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling


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