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  1. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    There is much in life I don't support, but I don't go asking for bans because I don't like or support it or think it is stupid or wasteful or poorly run or ... or ... or ...

    Others have rights too, you know and if they want to have a place to slaughter their horses for sale to martians, why not?
    So you do not personally support the ban of one single activity in the US that could be considered an infringement on the rights of others? For the sake of argument, let's say the activity in question is legal. Not one?


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  2. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    And on that note we have slipped into the 7th circle of hell!

    SERIOUSLY? Cowardly to eat something you could not kill yourself?
    NO wonder you started this thread.
    What's the problem? I think it's cowardly to go into the grocery store and buy a piece of pretty pink meat all nicely wrapped up and be able to ignore where it came from. If you have no issues with killing a cow and eating it, good for you. Plenty of people do, and I don't have a problem with that. I wouldn't be able to do it, so I don't think I have any business eating it.

    Yes, cowardly.


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  3. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    And on that note we have slipped into the 7th circle of hell!

    SERIOUSLY? Cowardly to eat something you could not kill yourself?
    NO wonder you started this thread.
    No, wait...I thought it was to bash a guy who was too upfront with killing something he ate....

    now I am confused.....

    does that mean I cannot eat my burgers anymore, since I did not kill the cow myself?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  4. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    Who said they did.
    [I]It was implied in this post of yours-[/I guess y'all don't give a damn that AR activists in the UK broke into a kennel, beat a hound to death, and tossed it in the driveway of its Master, after making threats. It's ok as long as it's for "the cause".

    Regardless of one's position on hot topic issues (horse slaughter being among them), a line is crossed when people threaten to commit an act of violence.

    Judging by how absolutely crazy some of you act, just on a silly BB, it's apparent that a few are as mentally disturbed as the same folks who make or act on their threats.

    If one disagrees with horse slaughter - that's fine. If one is active in a ban, that's ok too. Shout out support for a ban, write letters, take an ad in the paper, be active politically. That's all legal, moral, and ethical behavior.

    But all of you must allow others to engage in the same behavior; and advocate for their position as well.

    I don't doubt for one second that animal rights activists have tormented the company and its employees. Not for one second. And they've no doubt done it for a long time. At some point those employees are no longer the bad guys. The activists are.

    Because the activists have crossed the line from advocacy into criminal behavior.

    I do not excuse what the person did, because he crossed a line too. If he committed a crime, he should be punished. If what he did was legal (but morally and ethically questionable), maybe just let the world see him for the person he is but leave him alone.

    I feel very strongly about a great many things. I get angry about great injustice and cruelty in this world.

    What I don't do is call or write the objects of my anger and derision and threaten to kill them or their children.

    Maybe y'all should think on that a little.

    Consider that overzealous activism, while understandable, attracts a lot of mentally unhealthy or even unstable people. The internet provides a forum for such people to meet up, to exchange information, and to act out. Often anonymously. Perhaps you think that's ok if it's for a cause you personally believe in or endorse. I don't.

    Because the person on the receiving end has no way of knowing if the threat is idle or if they're going to wake up in a burning home, or with a dead or missing child or family member, or a dead or missing pet or livestock.

    Some of you seem so facile and dismissive about the notion of a company or its employees being threatened. Which indicates you may be as sociopathic as the jerk in the video. Think about it.


    I ask you, jetsmom. How do you know for certain they are not valid threats? What special powers of perception do you have that you can discern valid or invalid threats from the comfort of your home?

    Law enforcement does have to take threats seriously. People who have been threatened have absolutely no way of knowing which threat is serious or not.

    And you know that. I know you know that.

    What I referenced was not people on a BB writing something in anger (I've done it too after reading about animal abuse, for example)

    I was referencing the threats being made to the company and its employees. Someone is tracking down employees, obtaining their contact information, and threatening them personally.

    That's sick. And a person has every right to fear and resent that type of harassment and intimidation. It's NEVER appropriate and you know it isn't. At least I hope you do.
    And I have always stated that if someone did phone/write in a credible threat, the police should investigate and prosecute them. In fact I think I even stated that on this thread.

    But you implied on the bolded post that we don't care about what happened at the kennel in the UK. Of COURSE we do. THe person responsible should be doing jail time.
    You also stated you don't call and threaten people, and maybe we should think on that, implying that we WOULD, or we condone it.
    You also stated that forums provide a place for people to meet up and and act out if it's a cause we believe in, again implying that there are those on here, that because we object to commercial horse slaughter, would do harm or condone harm done to others or their property.
    You also called us crazy and sociopathic, again implying we would threaten or act out on people.

    That's what I object to.
    What you hear me being dismissive of, is believing any statements from the owner of the SH. He has a profit motive to lie and exaggerate.


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  5. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    No, wait...I thought it was to bash a guy who was too upfront with killing something he ate....

    now I am confused.....

    does that mean I cannot eat my burgers anymore, since I did not kill the cow myself?
    No, you can eat anything you want. I won't eat something I don't have the balls to kill. It's a personal choice and it's really pretty simple.


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  6. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    Who said they did.

    I ask you, jetsmom. How do you know for certain they are not valid threats? What special powers of perception do you have that you can discern valid or invalid threats from the comfort of your home?

    Law enforcement does have to take threats seriously. People who have been threatened have absolutely no way of knowing which threat is serious or not.

    And you know that. I know you know that.

    What I referenced was not people on a BB writing something in anger (I've done it too after reading about animal abuse, for example)

    I was referencing the threats being made to the company and its employees. Someone is tracking down employees, obtaining their contact information, and threatening them personally.

    That's sick. And a person has every right to fear and resent that type of harassment and intimidation. It's NEVER appropriate and you know it isn't. At least I hope you do.
    But you are leaving out places like forums being used to mobilize the unstable, to seek out location and relations of 'evil doers', to pose threats.

    Happened when FUGLY was upset about a breeder selling mares at auction, or when a truck driver had the misfortune to have wreck and turn his rig on the side while hauling horses!

    So yes, even the utterings on bulletin boards is not without danger!

    (not to mention that people who call for moderation are often piled on, too)


    It is completely unacceptable to threaten people.
    And heaven knows, we have seen too many reasons to take such things completely serious!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  7. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by newhorsemommy View Post
    No, you can eat anything you want. I won't eat something I don't have the balls to kill. It's a personal choice and it's really pretty simple.
    I hope you are vegetarian then...

    But again....the thread does not reflect that. You started it to dump on the guy who is not to coward to kill his meat. You just didn't like that he killed Trigger and not that ugly cow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  8. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    Really, I read that it just came to light cause there are several recent, local articles out there stating this guy was a buyer for Valley Meats... and with his name out there in the media the video, that he posted with his name on it, was noticed.

    I guess it depends on who you're listening to, what you 'hear'
    The point is, in case you missed it. The video was shot over a year ago. So it has nothing to do with what is happening right now. As far as it just coming to light because he is a "buyer", well, that sort of goes with exactly what I said. The AR folks are up in arms, nobody else would have cared.

    The guy is still a jerk.


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  9. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    I hope you are vegetarian then...

    But again....the thread does not reflect that. You started it to dump on the guy who is not to coward to kill his meat. You just didn't like that he killed Trigger and not that ugly cow.
    As I have stated before, yes, I am a vegetarian. My husband is not.

    I did not post it because he killed "Trigger" instead of a cow. As I said before, I don't care if you want to shoot and eat your horse. I posted it because he shot the horse to make a political statement and then posted it on the internet for all the world to see. If people started shooting cows and posting the videos on YouTube, just to get their rocks off, I would be equally pissed off.


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  10. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    No, wait...I thought it was to bash a guy who was too upfront with killing something he ate....

    now I am confused.....

    does that mean I cannot eat my burgers anymore, since I did not kill the cow myself?
    LOL Your confused.. I had a whole post in response to her, and I decided it was a waste of band width. I have come to the conclusion that the poster is very young. Heck I have killed squirrels and wood chucks, does that count? Of course I did not eat them.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  11. #451
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    SOmewhere in this thread, I read the guy's daughter just recently posted the video to youtube. Her recent posting is what got all the attention going.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  12. #452
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    According to some that know, the HSUS has a new policy, part of their assault on our rights to have animals, to release one new controversial video a month and the action alerts to their followers that go with it.
    I wonder if this was the one for this month.
    Will see which one they release next month.


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  13. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunny59 View Post
    The point is, in case you missed it. The video was shot over a year ago. So it has nothing to do with what is happening right now. As far as it just coming to light because he is a "buyer", well, that sort of goes with exactly what I said. The AR folks are up in arms, nobody else would have cared.

    The guy is still a jerk.
    Seriously all this over a year old Video.
    That's it, another one derailed!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  14. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by newhorsemommy View Post
    As I have stated before, yes, I am a vegetarian. My husband is not.

    I did not post it because he killed "Trigger" instead of a cow. As I said before, I don't care if you want to shoot and eat your horse. I posted it because he shot the horse to make a political statement and then posted it on the internet for all the world to see. If people started shooting cows and posting the videos on YouTube, just to get their rocks off, I would be equally pissed off.
    ah, but did he? Your interpretation is that he shot it to make a statement. Do you know he would not have shot the horse if he was not making the video? If he planned to shoot the horse anyway, and then used that as an opportunity to make his statement, does that change anything?

    I still think he is a jerk.

    But I'm not convinced he shot the horse to make a statement.


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  15. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    According to some that know, the HSUS has a new policy, part of their assault on our rights to have animals, to release one new controversial video a month and the action alerts to their followers that go with it.
    I wonder if this was the one for this month.
    Will see which one they release next month.
    Timing is everything.

    after all a handful of plants are ready to go online.

    Surprised it made the rounds now?
    Of course not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  16. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    I don't know of anyone that has a problem with using a horse's body after it's dead. Most have no problem with euth by gunshot. Most have no problem with people euthing by gunshot and eating their own horse. What the majority of anti commercial horse slaughter for human consumption have a problem with is the entire process of multiple auctions, deception to attain horses (from KB's lying to people about intent of getting a free horse on CL, to auctions hiding the fact that KB's are buying at their auction to falsifying EIDs/coggins), to the crowded transport over long distances with no food/water, no vet care when injured at auction or feedlot or transport, feedlot conditions, dumping horses rejected at the border in the desert, no enforcement for cruelty/neglect laws because "it's going to slaughter anyways, inadequate humane handling in SH's, lack of oversight in Sh's, failure of Livestock inspectors to act when they see blatant cruelty at auctions like in NM/Sugarcreek, failure of mgrs. at SH's to act when they see humane handling violations at SH (several videos out there showing this), putting profit/speed over humane handling at SH's resulting in more misses/inadequate stunning, etc.

    The video just surfaced because Sappington's daughter just recently posted it online.
    There have been numerous abuses in the past with regards to slaughter. With horse, cows, chickens, pigs.... That does not mean we can't improve. We actually have improved. We can monitor the process. We can make sure new facilities are properly built. I've seen a bunch of the videos and some are frightening. Others are quite misleading. Many are taken years ago and in foreign countries. Many make claims that are false. Do abuses occur? Yes. can they be minimized? I think so.

    In my experience, the people who scream the loudest DO object to the very idea that we might eat a horse.

    It's not something I would do, but it's not something I can say others shouldn't. Afterall, I eat cows and pigs and to some, that is disgusting.


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  17. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunny59 View Post
    ah, but did he? Your interpretation is that he shot it to make a statement. Do you know he would not have shot the horse if he was not making the video? If he planned to shoot the horse anyway, and then used that as an opportunity to make his statement, does that change anything?

    I still think he is a jerk.

    But I'm not convinced he shot the horse to make a statement.
    At the very least he wanted it to appear as if he shot the horse to make a statement, which still makes him an ass, and in my opinion, not someone that should be trusted to ensure that the slaughter would be humane if that particular plant were to be re-opened.


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  18. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by newhorsemommy View Post
    As I have stated before, yes, I am a vegetarian. My husband is not.

    I did not post it because he killed "Trigger" instead of a cow. As I said before, I don't care if you want to shoot and eat your horse. I posted it because he shot the horse to make a political statement and then posted it on the internet for all the world to see. If people started shooting cows and posting the videos on YouTube, just to get their rocks off, I would be equally pissed off.
    don't back peddle.

    first you are up in arms about this cruel guy (which he wasn't)
    then it's about something else, and now about being brave/coward about killing stuff

    Now which is it?

    No I don't kill my own food.
    I know in theory how to, but my neighbors would object, I am sure, since I - like so many other people, live in a residential area.

    I am sure I could buy a chicken at trade day and wring his neck....but seriously, why? To prove something to you?

    Do you kill the meat for hubby or does he have to do it himself?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  19. #459
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    IMO if HSUS wanted horse slaughter bills to be passed, they could have done so a long time ago with all their money for lobbying.

    I do not believe HSUS wants horse slaughter gone, since it is one of their very successful avenues to solicit donations.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  20. #460
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    Several newspapers have reported that he (Tim)said his daughter posted the video recently.



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