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  1. #281
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    Alright,
    I have some thoughts (don't read 'em if you don't want to know):

    1. Many of us have been horse owners and for whatever reason, may not currently own one, yet we did not have a lobotomy and forget our experiences or our knowledge. Funny how that works.

    2. There are certain posters here that seem to believe if they say enough outrageous things to support their "side", they will not only be given respect, but people will actually continue to read their posts. I tend to tune out people who are irrational unless they are paying me my full rate to do-so.

    3. Logic and reason are still useful. Please continue to utilize their service.

    4. Emotional rantings are better left for your journal or therapist. Emotions themselves are not bad, but the way in which they are expressed can work against your ability to persuade those of us who take advantage of thought #3.

    I'm fairly certain all that post here care about the welfare of horses. With that said, I think some people are more emotionally reactive than others and really need to consider how they come off to the general population reading these threads. Yes, real people not involved with horses do occasionally stumble upon a "google" search. Try not to make us all look like lunatics. Please.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people.
    W. C. Fields


    8 members found this post helpful.

  2. #282
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    When the hell is Tribal Council. I've got a vote I'd like to cast. I only wish I had more than one.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    If the "opening up more SH" was in reference to my comments about the Federal Meat Inspection Act; you did not read for content.

    I was referring to the possibility that the Act could be amended to permit small plants to accept horses for disposal. Not slaughter for human consumption; except perhaps in the case of custom-exempt plants which can process animals for human consumption - but for the owners only. The meat cannot enter the national (or international) food supply.

    That was not intended to be a one size fits all solution to the problem of excess/unwanted horses.

    Absorbing the excess horses through a variety of avenues is a more reasonable approach than demanding owners just be more responsible. I would rather see old Dobbin get a bullet from a local knacker than be sent to an auction and ending up God knows where.
    No it was in response to Lady eboshi. I'd have no problem with local abbatoirs. It would help make euth more affordable. However, it will not change the number of horses slaughtered for human consumption. The demand for it being reduced or banning transport to slaughter AND having a high enough export fee (like Mex does if you try to get a horse from Mex to US...about 1500.00) to make it not worthwhile to ship out of the country, are the only things that will reduce the number of US horses sent to slaughter for human consumption.

    Increased funding for animal control/animal regulation enforcement, funding of gelding and euth clinics, and hay banks will help reduce neglect/abandonment. If we would ever do an export fee, then that money could be divided among State vet offices to fund the above. Right now, animal neglect/abuse cases very rarely get prosecuted with stiff fines and jail time. Look at Baker's court case and his 165k in unpaid fines. He continued/continues to operate while owing the money.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #284
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    Oct. 18, 2000
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    Yes, I agree that there must be multiple solutions.

    One of my personal pet peeves is that animal control still tends to be the red headed stepchild of law enforcement.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling


    6 members found this post helpful.

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    Yes, I agree that there must be multiple solutions.

    One of my personal pet peeves is that animal control still tends to be the red headed stepchild of law enforcement.

    If we have more than one way, we can have our way more often.

    While I agree, AC needs more teeth, we need to be careful who we charge with the acquisition!

    (k, back to the grindstone..)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  6. #286
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    OH MY GOSH~ Something just occurred to me, Slap me on the head and call me stupid, Something I just read in an above post,
    It's not the slaughtering some people object to, its the fact that they are being EATEN isn't. Am I wrong? because even if the conditions are optimal there is still the statement,"Slaughtered for Human consumption" Whoa, That is it isn't it. It's late for me, I get up early, forgive me.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    OH MY GOSH~ Something just occurred to me, Slap me on the head and call me stupid, Something I just read in an above post,
    It's not the slaughtering some people object to, its the fact that they are being EATEN isn't. Am I wrong? because even if the conditions are optimal there is still the statement,"Slaughtered for Human consumption" Whoa, That is it isn't it. It's late for me, I get up early, forgive me.


    well on the surface it seems that way....

    but in the end it is still rainbows and butterflies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    OH MY GOSH~ Something just occurred to me, Slap me on the head and call me stupid, Something I just read in an above post,
    It's not the slaughtering some people object to, its the fact that they are being EATEN isn't. Am I wrong? because even if the conditions are optimal there is still the statement,"Slaughtered for Human consumption" Whoa, That is it isn't it. It's late for me, I get up early, forgive me.
    No not really (ie, yes you are wrong in a way). I clarified it, because you could have local abbatoirs that would slaughter horses and render them, and that would be fine. Or if someone wants to shoot and eat their own horse, it's fine. The "human consumption" part I added is because that is what drives the large foreign companies (and what Sue Wallis wants a piece of) that slaughter horses. There is no horsemeat in US commercial pet food, and enough horses die every year, that rendering companies can get what they need. It's the demand overseas for horsemeat for human consumption that results in huge horse SH 's where the process from auction, transport, feedlot, slaughter is often inhumane. But a person eating their own horse isn't the problem (if it was killed humanely).
    But in order to keep it profitable, only a few large foreign owned SH are around to make it feasible to kill the horses and ship large amounts of horsemeat overseas. Small abbatoirs wouldn't be able to make enough money doing that.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #289
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    I agree with you Jetsmom, I don't care about humans eating horsemeat. I don't care about the rendering, if that is what you choose.

    However, if you want to slaughter horses for meat, slaughter dogs and cats as well. None are raised for meat in the US (that I know of). Other countries eat dogs and cats....take people's unwanted pets and slaughter them. That is really what we are speaking of.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #290
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    That's what I seen ,and I felt. That this is the kind of person that could drown unwanted puppies,kittens,mentally challegended kids, old people,Nazi asshole! I've been in the situation,where ,the vet,for what ever reason,can't get there! Had a person that loved horses and he said,after watchin, the video-when he had to do this he knew the horse needed to be relieved from the pain-He also said"Ya'll better watch that bastard,he like's killin' too much--



  11. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoma View Post
    That's what I seen ,and I felt. That this is the kind of person that could drown unwanted puppies,kittens,mentally challegended kids, old people,Nazi asshole! I've been in the situation,where ,the vet,for what ever reason,can't get there! Had a person that loved horses and he said,after watchin, the video-when he had to do this he knew the horse needed to be relieved from the pain-He also said"Ya'll better watch that bastard,he like's killin' too much--

    and we have slipped off the deep end again.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #292
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    I am unable to locate any statement from the company that the man in the video was fired.

    I have been unable to locate a "prime time" or credible news media that has printed "the letter" from Valley Meats.

    Is anyone able to direct me to a connection i.e. radio, tv in New Mexico that has actually printed or reported "the letter"



  13. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    I am unable to locate any statement from the company that the man in the video was fired.

    I have been unable to locate a "prime time" or credible news media that has printed "the letter" from Valley Meats.

    Is anyone able to direct me to a connection i.e. radio, tv in New Mexico that has actually printed or reported "the letter"
    Why don't you contact A. Blair Dunn, Esq, The atty that released the letter?



  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Why don't you contact A. Blair Dunn, Esq, The atty that released the letter?
    Thank you.



  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    I am unable to locate any statement from the company that the man in the video was fired.

    I have been unable to locate a "prime time" or credible news media that has printed "the letter" from Valley Meats.

    Is anyone able to direct me to a connection i.e. radio, tv in New Mexico that has actually printed or reported "the letter"
    Per Albuquerque Journal Newspaper- (re- firing)
    http://www.abqjournal.com/main/2013/...s-outrage.html



  16. #296
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    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...m_hp_ref=green

    confirms loss of job

    The letter was so poorly constructed I had my doubts a lawyer would have let something like that leave his office. ..


    This is from the article: Many animal humane groups and public officials are outraged at the idea of resuming domestic slaughter, including New Mexico Gov. Susana Martinez, who points to the iconic animal's role as a loyal companion in the West.


    De Los Santos has said the meat from his plant would be processed for human consumption in Russia, eastern Europe and Asia. It will also be used for pet foods.

    Angela...here is yet another mention of ASIA..also pet foods

    The passport only requires the horse be documented by the owner for the past SIX MONTHS. That is why the number of equine feedlots has expanded. They will be able to comply with that demand. Until the test on LIVE horses is finalized, they will continue to test meat from "specific runs".. Any meat testing positive of a E.U. banned substance will be shipped to processors for non human consumption usage AND also to ASIA where there is no ban.

    According to the vets with the Canadian border many horses shipped have not been handled so it is rare that they would have been able to consume banned substances.



  17. #297
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    As a horse lover and horse owner i would rather 100% of horses that were destined for slaughter from the united states be put down via this method (shot in the head) versus going over the border to the great unknown.

    Are people who are so caught up in this.... do you think animals never die? Do you think that a fairybook ending greets every horse and they live forever and ever and die in the arms of a little girl who loves them oh so much?

    The horse slaughter industry has only gained momentum over the past years since it has been banned, only in exports. No horses were "saved". They were just sent over the border to a more horriffic fate.

    So well f'ing done, all of you "'activists". You can hop, skip and jump up and down knowing that we are not killing horses in this country. Meanwhile the horrific unintended consequences of your actions mean that these horses now have to endure multiple day journeys on packed containers to meet the same fate under circumstances we cannot control. Well done, all of you.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manahmanah View Post
    As a horse lover and horse owner i would rather 100% of horses that were destined for slaughter from the united states be put down via this method (shot in the head) versus going over the border to the great unknown.

    Are people who are so caught up in this.... do you think animals never die? Do you think that a fairybook ending greets every horse and they live forever and ever and die in the arms of a little girl who loves them oh so much?

    The horse slaughter industry has only gained momentum over the past years since it has been banned, only in exports. No horses were "saved". They were just sent over the border to a more horriffic fate.

    So well f'ing done, all of you "'activists". You can hop, skip and jump up and down knowing that we are not killing horses in this country. Meanwhile the horrific unintended consequences of your actions mean that these horses now have to endure multiple day journeys on packed containers to meet the same fate under circumstances we cannot control. Well done, all of you.
    They were being sent over the border before the 3 SH's here in the US shut down. And slaughter in the US has not been banned. Only a couple of states actually ban it. They often had long transport over 22 hrs when the 3 SH's were open in the US. The shippers did not ship to whoever was closest. Often horses were shipped from New Holland or Sugarcreek to Dallas Crowne or Beltex when Cavel was much closer. Recently 2 loads were shipped from Wisconson to the Santa Teresa POE bound for Mex, instead of going to Canada which was closer. FWIW, the 2 truckloads were rejected at the border due to strangles, and the drivers dumped them (all 72 horses) in the desert to starve. The slaughter industry perpetuates more abuse than not having it does.

    And you need to google Beltex FOIA documents, and look at the couple of hundred pages of humane violations in 11 months at ONE US horse SH when we had it open. Also google Charlie Carter, and Baker court case, to read about just how humane it was here. There are still over 165, 000.00 in court fines that are unpaid by baker for Humane transport violations, and he continued/continues to operate unimpeded.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  19. #299
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    I agree with that too. We generally are a meat eating society. What does that say about us that we treat the animals that feed us so poorly.


    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    HAACP, for one.

    The USDA has a small plant outreach program that does try and help processors cope with the burden; but it's kind of a losing battle.

    But, new plants are starting up - this is just my opinion but I think the USDA realized they screwed the pooch when so many plants went belly up.

    I'm not sure 4 plants processing over 80% of the nations cattle is a good thing for food safety.

    Anyway - my personal view is that there is rarely, if ever, a one size fit all blanket solution for every problem. And while I would like everyone to be a responsible animal owner, the truth is many aren't.

    I would rather provide a myriad of reasonable options for people to divest ownership, rather than just screaming at them that they hate ponies.

    I must make one thing clear - if small plants were permitted to accept horses not all would. The one near me is operating at capacity - they don't need the business. But others would. Every business is different, every area is different. It is just one possible option.

    And frankly, seeing those horror stories about the illegal slaughterhouses in places like Florida - it would be very nice if more of the custom-exempt plants opened up. If nothing else to be the end point as part of an educational process for the population used to doing things that way. That's probably pie in the sky, though.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #300
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    ROFL - well dang for a brief moment we were playing nicely in the sand box............NEXT!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    and we have slipped off the deep end again.....


    1 members found this post helpful.

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