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  1. #141
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    Well put on every point, newhorsemommy. Right on.
    I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
    I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09



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  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by up-at-5 View Post
    I beg to differ, let's save it for OT day!
    No need to save it, you just got caught in the wolf mystique, I assume?

    Growing up in Europe, we still had wolves and yes, they do attack people too.

    Six wolves killed and fatally injured about 20+ sheep one night, ate here and there on four of them, left the rest to finish dying.
    THAT is the way wolves operate.



  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    And your assuming for the thousands of people who drop their unwanted pets off at shelters knowing full well that after sitting in a concrete floored kennel surrounded by stress and often sickness for days or weeks ..only to be Euthanized in whatever manner is cost effective , gas , injection is any different or better.

    The only differences I see are that one , horses are livestock. Some of us choose to treat them like pets and two , once dead the dogs/cats carcasses are ruined for use and that makes their death much sadder and wasteful.
    I am not assuming anything. Horses are ONLY livestock when they are unsound and not practical otherwise they are pets. This topic is about slaughter not abandoning animals at shelters.

    If the pro-slaughter people want horse slaughter why not slaughter dogs and cats as well ? Semantics , because dogs and cats are not livestock ? Bottom line horses are mostly pets, and telling yourselves that only "livestock" are slaughtered is delusional, people are sending their pets to slaughter because they legally can. I oppose that.


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  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    Cats and dogs have nothing in common with live stock. No matter how much you love your horses, they are live stock.
    Cats and dogs may not be classified as livestock like horses are, but saying that cats and dogs have nothing in common with livestock is not accurate either.

    While you may not personally care what happens to an animal that is not yours, that is not a sentiment shared by everyone. You have the right to your own moral compass (unless it starts breaking laws!) and others have the right to their own moral compass (unless it starts breaking laws!).
    Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
    Home of Fitz, Max, Daeo & Austria
    Now over the Rainbow Bridge: Finn, Jake & Seamus


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  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by newhorsemommy View Post
    Well, I posted this on my way out the door this morning and just got home. I have only skimmed some of the replies, but I did, in fact, post this to start a discussion. Isn't that why anyone posts here? Further, I rarely comment on the slaughter threads and I don't remember ever starting one.

    I don't have an issue with euthanasia by bullet. I don't have an issue if you want to raise horses, shoot them in your backyard, and eat them. Live it up.

    I have a problem with 1) the psychopath in the video shooting what appears to be a healthy horses for the SOLE purpose of sending some kind of a message or threat to people that don't happen to agree with him and 2) this never ceasing effort to re-open slaughterhouses in the US under the false pretense that it is for the benefit of the horses.

    The man in the video is affiliated with the slaughterhouse in NM up for consideration for re-opening. I really doubt the video was created to further some animal rights agenda. The man shooting the horse is clearly the man speaking. He is a sick, sick person. The video popped up on my FB this morning. I wish I had not seen it. I have not had a lot of time to look into it further, but plan to.

    There are too many horses. But if slaughter is done for profit, it will never be humane. There's not much humane about the way other meat is commercially raised or killed in this country. It's obviously being pursued for profit (i.e. someone is going to make a bunch of money) or they would not be expending so many resources lobbying various government officials and scurrying from state to state trying to find a community economically depressed enough to welcome their crappy jobs and crappy pay.

    So why don't they just put on their big boy and girl pants and state that they want to slaughter horses for profit? People that raise beef aren't carrying on about how they are helping the cows. Why are they hiding behind names like "United Horsemen" and claiming that the slaughter houses will have a rescue and adoption component? It's because MOST Americans don't view horses as food. It's as simple as that. So they can't just come right out and say that. So they couch it as an effort to find a humane end for "unwanted" horses to cover up what they are really doing.

    If the backers of these slaughter house efforts were really that concerned with the welfare of the horses, why not put their money and efforts elsewhere? Why not establish a non-profit that would fund low-cost or free euthanasia clinics across the country? Why not lobby to provide more funding to county animal shelters so they could accept surrendered horses and then euthanize after a short period? It's a big country. With the exception of the large hoarder cases and such, we are not talking about hundreds of horses per year in each county. Oh, that's right, because it's about MONEY, and neither of those options would make anyone any money.

    Finally, I will never agree with the idea that people should be rewarded for dumping their horses at an auction or slaughterhouse. Can you imagine what would happen if we paid people to dump their dogs and cats at the shelter?
    And while I understand that some people consider horses livestock, I am guessing the average American views them as pets.

    I do not consider myself to be a "radical animal rights activist." I'm a vegetarian, but my husband is not. I don't belong to PETA. I just think that slaughter is the lazy way out of the problem, on all levels, and Sue Wallis and her pals are planning to capitalize on that.

    PS: Some of the anti "radical animal rights activists" posters on here appear to be just as nuts as those the radicals they are constantly "warning" us about.
    My thoughts exactly.
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns



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  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Jumping to conclusions like everyone else who has NEVER seen a slaughter plant in operation. The osters from the U.S. only have 2nd and 3rd hand stories.

    I would suggest you read the other threads. We did make a great difference..

    Not a horse dealer. Do breed and raise and show and have for most of my life.

    Dare I suggest you do some research and actually do something to solve the excess horse problem rather than draw conclusions based on your own lack of information.
    Excuse me? What are you doing to solve the excess horse problem? How dare you suggest I don't do my part? What do you breed? Out in western Canada eh, breeding, like there aren't thousands of horses already on the ground out in your area? And you're breeding? Must be darned special, those horses of yours!

    Send me a link via pm so I can see what you are breeding, maybe I know someone who wants to buy what you have for sale. To ride, though, not to eat.
    "My doctrine is this, that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt.”
    ― Anna Sewell


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  7. #147
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    I watched the video, the unedited version, and I skimmed through most of the posts.

    There is NO reason to kill an animal to make such a point. To shoot a horse just to throw it in the face of AR activists is dumb at best, psychotic more likely. I don't care how bad the AR activists can be, shooting a horse just to say F you is unexcusable.

    I don't believe that this guy shot this horse to eat. He shot it make a stupid point. I live about three hours from this town. I live in the country, I work with and know ranchers, farmers, hunters. We have processed our own cattle in the backyard. I have no disconnect from the rural lifestyle. The people I know kill and butcher their own animals because it is a lifestyle, because they respect the animal. Even if this guy was butchering the horse for food, his stupid little display for the camera was simply sick.

    Was the horse in the video killed instantly? Looks like it. Should all horses that run through a slaughter plant be killed this quickly? Absolutely. The horse in the video thankfully did not feel a thing. But not with the hate shown by this guy. He may have patted the horse, but he didn't care a flip about that horse and weather it died humanely or not. He did it out of spite. Again, NO animal should be killed for this reason, ever! And anyone capable of killing an animal for this reason is sick.

    I wish they would open a horse slaughter plant in Roswell NM. A humane slaughter plant. It would save many horses in my state a trip to a very likely inhumane slaughter plant in Mexico. But if this is the kind of person that is opening the plant, then I don't think we have improved anything at all.


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  8. #148
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    Then why don't they just say that?

    And I would have been fine with an educational video on how to properly euthanize a horse with a bullet. It's not how I plan to do it, but I understand it's necessary in emergencies, cheaper, and some people prefer it.

    ETA: Sorry, that was in response to Fairfax, I forgot to quote!


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  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    No need to save it, you just got caught in the wolf mystique, I assume?

    Growing up in Europe, we still had wolves and yes, they do attack people too.

    Six wolves killed and fatally injured about 20+ sheep one night, ate here and there on four of them, left the rest to finish dying.
    THAT is the way wolves operate.
    Oh yes, the mystique, the haunting call of the wild during the full moon, the cute pups, oh how I swoon to hear such a call out on my back fourty while I tend to the chores. Growing up here in Canada and NOT in Europe, we DO still have wolves, and one just attacked, omg, a HUMAN!!! The nerve!
    "My doctrine is this, that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt.”
    ― Anna Sewell


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  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADM7040 View Post
    Cats and dogs may not be classified as livestock like horses are, but saying that cats and dogs have nothing in common with livestock is not accurate either.

    While you may not personally care what happens to an animal that is not yours, that is not a sentiment shared by everyone. You have the right to your own moral compass (unless it starts breaking laws!) and others have the right to their own moral compass (unless it starts breaking laws!).
    I think most of the people that post about not wanting a horse "Slaughtered " are misguided and feed off pure emotion.
    I love animals, I have done my level best to save tossed out dogs and cats, treated my own horses well and when their life was no longer quality they were humanely put down in my presence.
    Dogs and cats are a whole nother can of worms.
    I don't even know why I am having this conversation.
    Those that are totally opposed to slaughter, seem to be opposed to even humane ending of a life.
    In all these threads over the years I have never read one anti give a logical practical answer to what should be done.
    And adopting them all is not the answer.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


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  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    It still has nothing to do with the slaughter issue..where individuals cry about the alleged cruelty

    Of course slaughter is for profit.
    Fairfax, why don't you try discussing things like a grown up instead of your usual diversion tactics. Face it, you were wrong. You stated that the man did not slaughter the horse, he just euthanized it with a bullet. Your statement was blatantly wrong and I pointed that out to you. Your petulant reply above does nothing further to make you seem right, it just attempts to divert attention.
    Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
    Home of Fitz, Max, Daeo & Austria
    Now over the Rainbow Bridge: Finn, Jake & Seamus


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  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    I think most of the people that post about not wanting a horse "Slaughtered " are misguided and feed off pure emotion.
    I love animals, I have done my level best to save tossed out dogs and cats, treated my own horses well and when their life was no longer quality they were humanely put down in my presence.
    Dogs and cats are a whole nother can of worms.
    I don't even know why I am having this conversation.
    Those that are totally opposed to slaughter, seem to be opposed to even humane ending of a life.
    In all these threads over the years I have never read one anti give a logical practical answer to what should be done.
    And adopting them all is not the answer.
    Well I just posted two possible solutions. Free or low cost euthanasia clinics and/or providing funding to county animal shelters to accept horses and provide euthanasia after a short holding period. It's not even hard to come up with other ideas. The lack of follow-through on alternatives strikes me as evidence of both the laziness I mentioned earlier and that the current efforts to re-open the slaughter houses are about money, and NOTHING else.


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  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    I am not assuming anything. Horses are ONLY livestock when they are unsound and not practical otherwise they are pets. This topic is about slaughter not abandoning animals at shelters.
    No really it is you that is delusional if you believe that horses have to be unsound or not practical in order to be livestock. There are many many people that do not see them as pets. Same as there are steadfast people who will tell you all day long that certain dogs etc are not pets but working animals.

    Its all personal opinion. You see a pet the next person sees livestock. Doesn't make either person wrong. If you don't want your "pet" to end up processed as livestock make provisions to provide for it as if it were in fact a pet.. keep it for its entire natural life provide finances to care for it should you perish Don't sell it because you can't ride it ..its a pet after all..don't attempt to turn a profit by purchasing one and doing some training and then selling it on ..after all a pet , don't buy one and sell it because you have graduated in skill and need something that performs at a higher level pet ..don't see much dog pin-hooking done. Keep your pet but don't stand in the way of anyone else who feels their personal property is not a pet but livestock and wishes to utilize them as such.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by newhorsemommy View Post
    Well I just posted two possible solutions. Free or low cost euthanasia clinics and/or providing funding to county animal shelters to accept horses and provide euthanasia after a short holding period. It's not even hard to come up with other ideas. The lack of follow-through on alternatives strikes me as evidence of both the laziness I mentioned earlier and that the current efforts to re-open the slaughter houses are about money, and NOTHING else.
    Sadly, for many, and many posters on here, it IS about the money. I agree with what you mentioned earlier, why not just say it's all about the money, and leave it at that! Ask any drug dealer why they sell...it's all about the money, they have no shame in admitting it. Except for Bluey, for her, it's all about the rights, I tell you, all about the RIGHTS!
    "My doctrine is this, that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt.”
    ― Anna Sewell


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  15. #155
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    Agree newhorsemommy, many of the pro-slaughter posters marginalize those that do not agree with them. We are all PETA people and support dumping animals at the pound. I also find it troubling that "working animals" seem to be OK to slaughter according to a poster.

    The vets in my area would never withhold euthanasia for payment. Opening slaughter for horses just allows an easy way to resolve any issue with a pet horse.


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  16. #156
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    Default I just found this~

    In spite of last minute attempts by animal rights extremists to slander an entire segment of animal agriculture by introducing Congressional action (S. 541 - a bill to prevent human health threats posed by the consumption of equines with others to follow...) that offers zero solution whatsoever to the dire circumstances facing the horse industry--the truth is that horse people are moving forward to provide a better future for horses and horse people.

    Radical groups, led by the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) and their supporters on Capitol Hill and inside the White House seek to destroy what vestige is left of the U.S. horse industry.
    Nonetheless, the Law is the Law, and right now the Law is behind the horse industry allowing us to move forward with positive, humane systems, that ensure the highest standards of verified food safety, preserving the value, and incentivizing the proper care of all horses in the United States.

    Several horse processing plants in the United States are set to begin operations very soon.
    These plants have accomplished most or all of their required modifications to their facilities and will be requesting final walk through inspections, approval to begin operations, and the assignment of inspectors.

    USDA has indicated that under current law they will be providing the necessary regulation and inspection.

    These plants, and others that will be follow, have modified not only their physical plants to accommodate the unique characteristics of the equine species, but their Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point (HACCP) plans and their Standard Operating Procedures to include extremely rigorous, thorough, and scientifically validated testing of every carcass that will ensure that no drug residue can ever enter the human food chain, and that every plant has installed humane handling systems and procedures that go above and beyond the U.S. Humane Methods of Slaughter law.

    There are eager markets awaiting the opening of these facilities both here in the United States and internationally. Cheval, which is the common term for meat from the equine species in the same way that beef is the term for meat from cattle, and pork is the term from hogs, is highly sought after by ethnic, gourmet, health and nutritionally interested, and value conscious consumers.


    Strong support nationwide for the horse industry is perhaps most evident right now in Oklahoma where a pair of pro-horse industry bills that will allow processing to begin in that state are sailing through the State Legislature.

    Just this past Wednesday more than 400 articulate supporters of the legislation led by the Oklahoma Farm Bureau and a host of other Ag organizations showed up for a rally at the Capitol, and not a single anti-slaughter activist!

    The week before a pathetic showing of anti-horse advocates at what was billed to be a "massive" rally against the bills achieved numbers barely above single digits, outnumbered by the media covering the event, illustrated the out of touch mentality of these extremist groups.

    Attached to this press release is a report originally produced by IEBA last Fall, the Promise of Cheval, and updated regularly as new science and information becomes available, as well as a Facts and FAQs document that answers common questions about the ethical and responsible production of cheval.

    Below are documents testifying to the position of the States and the Tribes in regards to this issue--powerful entities that stand solidly behind the broader horse industry in this struggle to ensure that horses and horse owners have humane options that provide value, and therefor ensures the welfare of horses in the U.S.
    And this is obviously not a anti.
    Do not know this woman, but from what it sounds like Slaughter in the US will be back and an industry.
    I know that I myself will never eat"Cheval"
    but IF it really is humanely done. If that will ever happen that a slaughter house is built that is specifically for horses and addresses all the issues of poor processes of the past.
    There seem to be a whole lot of newer videos of slaughter I had never seen before, Barring the russian one..
    the biggest problem in most of them is the isolation and immobilizing of the head. Where the whole problem lies.
    watching cattle ones they are accurate and quick, but the cattle are smaller and have their necks immobilized.
    Why that cannot be done with horses I do not quite get.
    Once they are dead they are dead.
    The part that occurs after the stunning, is unpleasant in all species. But the only one who cares are the people looking at it. It is the process up to that point that counts.
    To me if it truly was run as an industry here in the US for profit it is going to be better regulated and more efficient.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by newhorsemommy View Post
    Well I just posted two possible solutions. Free or low cost euthanasia clinics and/or providing funding to county animal shelters to accept horses and provide euthanasia after a short holding period. It's not even hard to come up with other ideas. The lack of follow-through on alternatives strikes me as evidence of both the laziness I mentioned earlier and that the current efforts to re-open the slaughter houses are about money, and NOTHING else.
    And the pro contingent will be around in a couple seconds to divert this thread into why they think these options aren't practical, and ask who s going to save all these unwanted horses.

    We don't even know, though, the extent to which alternatives to slaughter are needed, if at all. No one has ever made a compelling argument that anybody, ever, took their horse to an auction because they had no other option. Alagirl tried to with her poll and failed spectacularly. Breeders breed because they are profiting. The horses being bred are all wanted. Just wanted more, in some cases, by those who can profit from slaughtering them than by the next bidder.

    Prove that there even is a problem with unwanted horses. Saying they're unwanted because they get bought by creeps like this guy makes as much sense as saying there is an unwanted cattle problem because they get slaughtered.

    Horses will always fall victim to hoarders, just like any other animal. Criminal neglect has never been linked to too few going for slaughter, and I have yet to see a single allegation that horses were left over after the slaughter truck left, starving at the auction lot because there aren't enough slaughterhouses. One of those articles said 200,000 horses were exported last year, which was the first time I've seen the number that high although perhaps they weren't all for slaughter. It wasn't clear, but either way it's more than when we had slaughterhouses here.

    Like the op said, just admit that you can't stand seeing all those slaughterhouses over the border making money that you could be making here if only those damn animal rights nuts would mind their own business. Money. There is no other reason.
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns



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  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    No really it is you that is delusional if you believe that horses have to be unsound or not practical in order to be livestock. There are many many people that do not see them as pets. Same as there are steadfast people who will tell you all day long that certain dogs etc are not pets but working animals.

    Its all personal opinion. You see a pet the next person sees livestock. Doesn't make either person wrong. If you don't want your "pet" to end up processed as livestock make provisions to provide for it as if it were in fact a pet.. keep it for its entire natural life provide finances to care for it should you perish Don't sell it because you can't ride it ..its a pet after all..don't attempt to turn a profit by purchasing one and doing some training and then selling it on ..after all a pet , don't buy one and sell it because you have graduated in skill and need something that performs at a higher level pet ..don't see much dog pin-hooking done. Keep your pet but don't stand in the way of anyone else who feels their personal property is not a pet but livestock and wishes to utilize them as such.
    You said what I was thinking so much nicer than I could have! People that think all horses should be pets scare the $hit out of me.
    From AliCat518 "Seriously, why would you NOT put fried chicken in your purse?!"


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  19. #159
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    Your generalizing to suit your personal choices SV.

    It was you that claimed all horses are pets unless unsound or not practical That is a false statement. There are plenty of people who own horses / use them that do not participate in the ideal that they are pets but believe them to be classified as livestock.

    Work on your reading comprehension. The comment about was about working dogs , there are certainly people who own dogs ..and while most of us feel they are pets who will argue with you they are not pets to them , but a working animal.

    Bottom line you don't have to slaughter your horse ... but why are you so damn concerned with with what someone else chooses to do with their property ? Do you concern yourself over what each and every person chooses to do with their dogs /cats /cows / goats / chickens / etc ?
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    Your generalizing to suit your personal choices SV.

    It was you that claimed all horses are pets unless unsound or not practical That is a false statement. There are plenty of people who own horses / use them that do not participate in the ideal that they are pets but believe them to be classified as livestock.

    Work on your reading comprehension. The comment about was about working dogs , there are certainly people who own dogs ..and while most of us feel they are pets who will argue with you they are not pets to them , but a working animal.

    Bottom line you don't have to slaughter your horse ... but why are you so damn concerned with with what someone else chooses to do with their property ? Do you concern yourself over what each and every person chooses to do with their dogs /cats /cows / goats / chickens / etc ?
    Watch it, someone will accuse you now of caring about "the RIGHTS"!


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