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  1. #1
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    Default Plaintiff in Failed Australian AI Case to Seek Leave to Appeal

    We have today placed this in our news section:

    Plaintiff in Failed Australian AI Case to Seek Leave to Appeal

    Lawyers for Australian Thoroughbred AI litigant, Bruce McHugh, have made application to lodge an appeal against the judgment. McHugh's lawsuit, an attempt to require the Australian Jockey Club to permit the use of artificial insemination (AI) in the breed failed just before Christmas. The request will be made before three Federal Court Judges and the decision should be handed down in short order.

    Horse breeders worldwide will be interested to see if the Court will allow a review of the case, thereby possibly reopening the doors to end what many - both within and outside the Thoroughbred industry - perceive as an archaic restriction. Others will however consider this as a prospective new threat to the traditions of the industry.
    3/19/2013
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  2. #2
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    Default

    Us at the farm will be watching this pretty close. Bosses are still against AI only until the rest of the world , aka US & UK accept AI.

    P.



  3. #3
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    Aug. 26, 2006
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    Default

    We too are watching and hoping that the American Jockey Club will lift this restriction. Maybe in our lifetime?



  4. #4
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    Aug. 15, 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
    Horse breeders worldwide will be interested to see if the Court will allow a review of the case, thereby possibly reopening the doors to end what many - both within and outside the Thoroughbred industry - perceive as an archaic restriction. Others will however consider this as a prospective new threat to the traditions of the industry.
    3/19/2013
    Allowing AI breeding in the Thoroughbred industry might also help end the widespread use of nurse mares. Wouldn't that be something!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
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    May. 25, 2005
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    Default

    I am by no means a Tb expert but I did spend some time in Lexington talking to a lot of the huge farm managers. How it was explained to me was those farms make a living off of mare board during breeding season...without it these farms may go under. Until they can come up with an alternate way to make revenues live cover will be mandatory.
    Read about my time at the Hannoveraner Verband Breeders Courses:
    http://blumefarm.com/hannoveranercourse2011.html
    http://blumefarm.com/hannoveranercourse2012.html



  6. #6
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    Feb. 14, 2001
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HickoryHill View Post
    Allowing AI breeding in the Thoroughbred industry might also help end the widespread use of nurse mares. Wouldn't that be something!
    Forgive me a moment... what "widespread use of nurse mares" are you referring to, that is caused by live cover? I'm pretty familiar with TB breeding in Kentucky, and mares get covered just fine. The foal is left at home in a stall for an hour or two. Mares from out of state are shipped in about 7-10 days after foaling (WITH their foals!), are bred to Kentucky stallions, stay in Kentucky until confirmed about 45 days pregnant, and then mare and foal are shipped back home to PA or NY or wherever home is. That's with Expensive mares (with Expensive foals) bred to Expensive stallions. Nurse mares are generally only used if the mare has had extreme difficulty foaling (like Rachel Alexandra) and may not be capable of raising them on their own (older mares, mares with lactating problems, lameness issues, etc). In a few instances, some mares experience lactational anestrus, and will not grow a good follicle with a foal at side; those foals may be placed on a nurse mare, or weaned very early.

    Nurse mares are not so "widespread" and the use of them has little to do with live cover, at least in my experience in the heart of Kentucky TBs.
    “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
    ? Albert Einstein

    ~AJ~


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  7. #7
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    Nov. 30, 2000
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HickoryHill View Post
    Allowing AI breeding in the Thoroughbred industry might also help end the widespread use of nurse mares. Wouldn't that be something!
    There is no "widespread use of nurse mares" in the TB industry.

    And the Live Cover/ A.I. debate is not in any way related to the reasons why nurse mares are used.


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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 12, 2003
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    Thorold, ON
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blume Farm View Post
    I am by no means a Tb expert but I did spend some time in Lexington talking to a lot of the huge farm managers. How it was explained to me was those farms make a living off of mare board during breeding season...without it these farms may go under. Until they can come up with an alternate way to make revenues live cover will be mandatory.
    I have heard this argument and I think it's not valid. Stallion farms wishing to keep mare care revenues can simply declare that they won't ship semen, and will only do on farm AI.

    I would love to use AI. I think about it when breeding maidens, difficult mares etc. I have to worry about my stallion, the mare, and most importantly the handlers involved.
    Equine Web Design http://www.tbconnect.net | Kingsgate Stud home of Legal Jousting (IRE)


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  9. #9
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    Oct. 29, 2003
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    Ocala, FL
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    Default

    I think the main issue with AI is that it will affect the regional sires - if you can get AI from a KY stud, you will not go to an FL stud. At least that is part of the concern. I know that may be a good thing to reduce some marginal studs, but with the industry dying as it is, this could be a further blow to states that do not have thriving programs. I have mixed feelings about it. My husband is a stallion handler here in FL and we are small breeders ourselves.

    As for the nursemares, I add my voice to the others - what "widespread" use of nursemares? Fillies are not bred and then sent back to the racetrack while another mare raises her foal.... Not sure what the poster was referring to. The large number of nursemares in KY is for mares that die or reject their foals etc. Also, AI does not mean embryo transplant as far as I can tell in this lawsuit - that would be a whole other issue.



  10. #10
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    Jan. 28, 2002
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    Default Nurse Mares & Nurse Mare Foals

    Quote Originally Posted by EventerAJ View Post
    Nurse mares are not so "widespread" and the use of them has little to do with live cover, at least in my experience in the heart of Kentucky TBs.
    So, this news story is incorrect?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30M26uJV_Ts
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Welsh Pony, ISR/Oldenburg & RPSI pony stallions Daventry's Power Play, Goldhills Brandysnap LOM & Alvesta Picasso
    Also home to www.EquineAppraisers.com



  11. #11
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    Feb. 14, 2001
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daventry View Post
    So, this news story is incorrect?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30M26uJV_Ts
    The part of the story that says the industry is "created because the mare must travel to the stallion, and the foal cannot travel with her" is misleading. The foal does not travel with the mare to the stallion itself; the foal remains safely at home in a stall (all obstructions, like buckets/tubs removed) while the mare takes a short van ride to the stallion, is bred, and vanned back home. The mare is rejoined with her foal within an hour or two, depending on how far away the stallion is (usually less than 30 miles).

    Mares and young foals are commonly transported in to Kentucky from other states. The foals travel as young as 5-7 days of age, and have a pretty uneventful trip in a box stall with their mom in an air-ride commercial van. They settle in at the new farm, mare is bred when she comes in season, foal stays at farm same as before.

    Nurse mares ARE used, the same as they are by any other horse breeding industry: for mares that die or are otherwise incapable of raising their own foal. Getting pregnant only has something to do with it when the mare won't produce a breedable follicle (lactational anestrus), and that would be the same regardless of live cover or AI.

    The Jockey Club's requirement of Live Cover does not create the nurse mare industry. Million-dollar mares raise their foals all the time. Some farms have been able to use an older retired mare as a nurse mare-- giving her oxytocin and/or domperidone can sometimes bring them back into milk. I don't have experience with this myself, I can't say how/what they did, but I've heard of it.

    There *are* some shady nurse mare farms in eastern Kentucky, I don't doubt it. (TBH, there's a lot of shady stuff in eastern KY, not just nurse mares.) I've driven by one place (in E KY) in particular that would do something like that-- dump the foals, or "hit 'em in the head with a hammer" -- and it has awful looking horses anyway, wormy with poor feet standing in a muddy mountain side, and I doubt any respected TB farm would let such a mare (likely unvaccinated as well) into their herd, much less let it near a valuable foal.

    Do I know where all nursemares come from? No. It makes me sick to think of the foals being discarded. Hopefully the news story will help bring that to light and give the abandoned foals a better life. But that has nothing to do with Live Cover.
    “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
    ? Albert Einstein

    ~AJ~


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    Jul. 21, 2011
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HickoryHill View Post
    Allowing AI breeding in the Thoroughbred industry might also help end the widespread use of nurse mares. Wouldn't that be something!
    I don't see the connection between live cover and nurse mares. There is none.

    Are you thinking of embryo transplant? That is a whole 'nuther issue and certainly won't be happening any time soon. The JC is fighting AI, can you see them going for ET? Not likely.



  13. #13
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    Feb. 10, 2006
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    Default

    If they allow AI, ET will follow. With ET mares that have issues or are very special like Rachel Alexandra, Zenyatta, remember Banshee Breeze, can reproduce without having to carry a foal (or only once in awhile). And many many mares that should NEVER reproduce can carry the foal instead and save themselves from a trip to slaughter. However, I doubt that anybody born before 1990 will EVER see this happen in the TB industry. And to assume I would breed to a KY stallion over a FL stallion is just a wild shot in the dark. Of the stallions I picked out (dreaming of c ourse but seriously researched), 2 are in FL, 2 are in KY and 2-3 are in Canada. The #1 pick is in FL, #2 is in Canada, #3 is in KY. Except I think they may have sent one of the KY stallions to NY this year. I would ship down to Ocala, MIGHT ship to KY depending on the stallion but no way am I shipping to NY or Canada to breed! But if I could use AI I would definitely consider NY/Can. And it certainly opens up horses in UK, Europe, Australia, etc because I am NEVER shipping them there to be bred! =)
    Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

    Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
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    Default

    Something niggles in my few grey cells about TB breeding and AI - something that I may be mistaken about but ? As I recall from prior threads - AI can really shrink the genetic pool - oh, I know, we do it with other types of horses, but even in that world? I think it DOES shrink the gene pool -

    As someone pointed out - you have stallions in KY you have stallions in FL - you have stallions in MD - etc. They all may be good stallions - but due to travel time - mare owners go as local as they can OR if they want to travel they do -

    Maybe I have no idea what I am talking about - maybe the TB industry wants to keep the status quo with the big players

    I don't know
    "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



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  15. #15
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    LOL, 3Dogs! Well said! I tend to agree about the shrinking equine gene pool, especially regarding TBs.



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