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  1. #1
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    Default Ulcers - Gastric vs. Colonic?

    Those of you who have experience with this subject, and had it diagnosed endoscopically, what part of the digestive system does the scope check out? I ask having seen this article from Madalyn Ward about treating different parts of the digestive system differently

    http://www.holistichorsekeeping.com/...l_ulcer_2.html

    but I've never seen anyone make the distinction between colonic vs. gastric ulcers when talking about vet diagnosis or conventional drug therapies.

    What has been your experience.



  2. #2
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    Default

    Scope can only see ulcers in the stomach. Generally, whenever someone talks about "ulcers", they are speaking of gastric ulcers.



  3. #3
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    Default Endoscopy

    Endoscopy checks the stomach only. Sometimes colonic ulcers can be diagnosed on bloodwork, at surgery for colic, fecal occult blood etc., but you can't really scope the colon.



  4. #4
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    Default

    Is it generally established that colonic ulcers do exist? What are some clinical signs of them (i.e.what might make you think your horse has one, vs. a gastric ulcer)? What medications are available for colonic ulcers? What about the small intestine?



  5. #5
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    Default

    Yes, absolutely well established that hind-gut ulcers exist.

    Here is an interesting article about treatment. You have to register, but it's free.



  6. #6
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    Default

    Colonic symptoms show up in the poop more than the gastric symptoms. Both can create the crabbyness and belly sensitiveness, but really loose stool tends to be more of a colon issue. Also, colon ulcers do not respond to antacids and temporary pain relief like that. I don't believe they respond to ulcerguard either - it's feeding changes that make the most difference there. If you think your horse is ulcer-y and you give him an antacid and that fixes the symptoms, chances are it's gastric. If your horse is ulcer-y and you scope and don't find anything (or if you've treated for gastric and healed them but still have symptoms), chances are you've got colonic.



  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Simkie View Post
    Yes, absolutely well established that hind-gut ulcers exist.

    Here is an interesting article about treatment. You have to register, but it's free.

    Thank you for that article. Is that PSB the only thing we know of to help with hind gut acidosis, or do they have other choices? And is hind gut acidosis the same as colonic ulcers?



  8. #8
    robink2 Guest

    Default hind gut ulcers

    After 28 days for treatment for gastric ulcers my horse still displayed symptoms of pain. So I am fairly certain he has colonic ulcers. i have read the diet changes from you all. So I have put him on Timothy cubes soaked and wonder if I am stopping the good saliva needed to produce the good gut juices. He seems able to handle the cubes but now I am not sure how much water he is drinking. Six times a day of about 2lbs of soaked cubes and small amounts of senior. Is this not enough. This is all very challenging. The scope revieled the gastric ulcers but after not seeing improvment on gastrogaurd I became ingufed in finding the answers, which all point to colonic ulcers.
    Any input will be much appreciated



  9. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Simkie View Post
    Yes, absolutely well established that hind-gut ulcers exist.

    Here is an interesting article about treatment. You have to register, but it's free.

    "The PSB used in this study was effective in attenuating the hindgut acidosis that resulted from high-grain intakes in exercised Thoroughbreds," concluded Pagan. "More research is needed to evaluate how PSB supplementation affects intestinal epithelial health and integrity."


    I don't suppose another approach might be to decrease grain and increase fiber, which is the approach taken for right dorsal colitis...?
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghazzu View Post
    I don't suppose another approach might be to decrease grain and increase fiber, which is the approach taken for right dorsal colitis...?
    Could have sworn someone on COTH successfully treated RDC by eliminating hay for a few months? Or maybe I'm just losing it.
    Last edited by rcloisonne; Apr. 14, 2009 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Added "successfully"



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcloisonne View Post
    Could have sworn someone on COTH successfully treated RDC by eliminating hay for a few months? Or maybe I'm just losing it.

    I ought to have elaborated.
    More fiber than starch, but short fiber length, such as that found in complete feed pellets.


    I was being sloppy.

    Better still to *prevent* ulceration by avoiding a high grain diet, then the issue would be moot.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghazzu View Post
    I ought to have elaborated.
    More fiber than starch, but short fiber length, such as that found in complete feed pellets.


    I was being sloppy.

    Better still to *prevent* ulceration by avoiding a high grain diet, then the issue would be moot.

    It sounds like race horse TB's unless I am reading into it. Could it even be done with them?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
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    Colonic ulcers can be very difficult to detect and there really isn't much out there that has been proven to work. It seems like a lot of it works for some horses and not others. My vet thought my horse may have colonic ulcers when he was acting ulcery (very ulcer-prone horse, I know when an ulcer is coming before it would even show up on a scope by now) even though he'd been on ulcergard since the beginning of his stall rest over a month prior. Vet said that ulcergard was extremely effective and we could safely rule out gastric ulcers, though it had no effect on colonic ulcers. We decided to treat him with a pound of psyllium a day for 10 days, and then slowly decreasing it.

    My horse went from not willing to trot AT ALL (biting at my leg, threatening to buck/rear, pinning his ears and refusing to move, etc. even though he was on stall rest and is young...here I was worried he'd be full of himself and hyper!) to being normal and willing to please. We've even progressed to canter sets and he has been happy ever since (as long as he gets the psyllium at least twice a week).
    A lovely horse is always an experience.... It is an emotional experience of the kind that is spoiled by words. ~Beryl Markham



  14. #14
    Ches Guest

    Default To view Gastric Ulcers in a horse

    A 3m endoscope is used, it is passed through the nosstrels into the oesophagus and into the stomach. This enables the view of the glandular mucosa, squamous mucosa, the greater curvature and the margo plicatus.

    The long scope also views the fundus region and the pylorus, you can see the opening of the duodenum.

    Gastric Ulcers can often be a contributing factor to many other problems in the horse. Just like us, if the stomach is not working correctly other parts start to suffer.



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Androcles View Post
    It sounds like race horse TB's unless I am reading into it. Could it even be done with them?
    Feeding less starch?
    Certainly.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghazzu View Post
    Feeding less starch?
    Certainly.
    I mean practically speaking, of course, would race horse people ever even consider it.



  17. #17
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    He improved just from the psyllium? Do you know what it did, and why he continues to need it? If his colon still has damage are you considereing antyhgin like l-glutamine to heal the mucosal membrane?

    Quote Originally Posted by KristiKGC View Post
    Colonic ulcers can be very difficult to detect and there really isn't much out there that has been proven to work. It seems like a lot of it works for some horses and not others. My vet thought my horse may have colonic ulcers when he was acting ulcery (very ulcer-prone horse, I know when an ulcer is coming before it would even show up on a scope by now) even though he'd been on ulcergard since the beginning of his stall rest over a month prior. Vet said that ulcergard was extremely effective and we could safely rule out gastric ulcers, though it had no effect on colonic ulcers. We decided to treat him with a pound of psyllium a day for 10 days, and then slowly decreasing it.

    My horse went from not willing to trot AT ALL (biting at my leg, threatening to buck/rear, pinning his ears and refusing to move, etc. even though he was on stall rest and is young...here I was worried he'd be full of himself and hyper!) to being normal and willing to please. We've even progressed to canter sets and he has been happy ever since (as long as he gets the psyllium at least twice a week).



  18. #18
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    Dec. 12, 2000
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    Default

    The protocol for colonic ulcers I see most commonly here from the vets is a grain-free diet, soaked alfalfa cubes, the meds Misoprositol (a synthetic prostaglandin) and Sulcrafate (to coat the intestinal track).

    There is a theory that Gastroguard can in fact contribute to colonic ulcers. By it's very action of being a proton pump inhibitor, stopping the production of stomach acid, it allows more carbohydrates to pass through to the hind gut, which is designed to break down fiber. Thus acidiosis is the result.
    While the normal course of Gastroguard treatment (4-6 weeks) may be okay, frequent and continual use of Gastroguard can increase hind gut acidosis.

    It generally takes a much longer time to heal the hind gut, than the stomach.



  19. #19
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    Wow, that would suck if it's true! It sounds logical though that reduced stomach acid would contribute to undigested grain passing thru to the colon. I guess that is the reason for the grain free diet? But then it was also said, no fiber either to give the colon a rest. Yikes. When you say 'long time' to heal the hind gut, how long do you mean?
    What about bute, is that known to cause problems in the hind gut or just the stomach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritpaws View Post
    The protocol for colonic ulcers I see most commonly here from the vets is a grain-free diet, soaked alfalfa cubes, the meds Misoprositol (a synthetic prostaglandin) and Sulcrafate (to coat the intestinal track).

    There is a theory that Gastroguard can in fact contribute to colonic ulcers. By it's very action of being a proton pump inhibitor, stopping the production of stomach acid, it allows more carbohydrates to pass through to the hind gut, which is designed to break down fiber. Thus acidiosis is the result.
    While the normal course of Gastroguard treatment (4-6 weeks) may be okay, frequent and continual use of Gastroguard can increase hind gut acidosis.

    It generally takes a much longer time to heal the hind gut, than the stomach.



  20. #20
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    I've seen good results with horses suspected of having colonic ulcers (hind gut) with Sucralfate. As long as it was administered several times a day (3 or more) it was very effective in reducing symptoms. Not a cure though.
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain



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