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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2004
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    Whidbey Is, Wash.
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    9,779

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    Conformation.
    COTH's official mini-donk enabler

    "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    8

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    To clarify, the saddle seems to fit my horse okay (as far as I can tell, but the rep will confirm). The issue is that the saddle doesn't fit me. I have a larger behind as I mentioned before, so the 16.5 is small. It could be that as I ride in it, it becomes a better fit....But at that point, its a used saddle. I've had a 17 seat before this custom saddle, that's what has provided me security. I am concerned about are the flaps though, they push me forward, I have about 1 inch clearance after my knee is placed in the correct position. When I jump, I'm out of saddle, if you can understand what I mean.

    My saddle resembles the pony saddle in the way it looks aesthetically on the website (flaps, stitching, two-toned). However, I am sure that seat is a SE 03 because that is what it is indicated under the flap. I don't think that is a mistake.

    At this point, with all the comments, I feel pretty comfortable about the process of refitting/rebuilding. My rep must be a reasonable person, otherwise he would no longer be employed with such a well known and respected company, right? I am not as panicked as before. Thanks to everyone for the help! I'll update after I meet with my rep.



  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2006
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    8,668

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnysMom View Post
    Mind you the rep and I had spoken about her return rate and that Stubben was not comfortable making a custom for this horse due to his back confirmation. At no point did she point out the 25% restocking fee.
    So if I am understanding correctly ...you had a horse with tricky enough conformation that Stuebben said up front they wouldn't feel comfortable making a custom saddle for it (at least they are honest about what their design can and cannot accommodate!), and CWD was going to try to sell you one of theirs with their highly limited horse-fitting options (no gussets, no changeable gullets, no differing head heights, no hoop trees, etc) to mail you in a box and NOT EVEN MENTION that it would cost you $1,100 if it didn't work out? You had to discover that by carefully reading the fine print?

    For $4,500?

    Is this a joke?



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    15,987

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    SonnysMom, what did you end up with?
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  5. #45
    Join Date
    Dec. 23, 2010
    Posts
    79

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnysMom View Post
    FWI- CWD has a 25% restocking fee. I was considering having a CWD made for my REALLY hard to fit horse. I decided to pass since even if CWD could not make me a saddle that worked for him and they agreed they could not make it I would have a 25% restocking fee. I could not afford to take an $1,100 hit. CWD was willing to lower that restocking fee to $700. Still not something I was willing to take a chance on.
    Mind you the rep and I had spoken about her return rate and that Stubben was not comfortable making a custom for this horse due to his back confirmation. At no point did she point out the 25% restocking fee. I tend to read everything so read the back of the paperwork before placing my order. Good thing. In retrospect I don't think that the CWD would have ever worked for my horse's confirmation so the restocking fee being unpaletable kept CWD and me from being frustrated and disappointed.

    OP- I hope everything works out for you.
    Wow. Reading these posts, between the commissions, re-stocking fees and general lack of concern from certain saddle companies for the amount of money people spend to buy one of these saddles, I am just shocked.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2004
    Location
    Pottstown, PA (East Coventry)
    Posts
    3,070

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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    So if I am understanding correctly ...you had a horse with tricky enough conformation that Stuebben said up front they wouldn't feel comfortable making a custom saddle for it (at least they are honest about what their design can and cannot accommodate!), and CWD was going to try to sell you one of theirs with their highly limited horse-fitting options (no gussets, no changeable gullets, no differing head heights, no hoop trees, etc) to mail you in a box and NOT EVEN MENTION that it would cost you $1,100 if it didn't work out? You had to discover that by carefully reading the fine print?

    For $4,500?

    Is this a joke?
    In this case the rep would personally deliver the saddle and I would try it the first time with her there.
    We did talk about how the process would work if the saddle did not fit the first time, they could send it back for changes to the panels etc... If after a couple of times that did not work they would take the saddle back. She said that had only happened 3 times in the year before last for her and none in the last year. During that discussion she did not mention the re-stocking fee at all.
    She was aware Stubben would not make a saddle for this horse. She was aware I had been trying for 9 months to find a saddle for this horse with absolutely no luck.
    I had to read about the re-stocking fee in the fine print on the back. CWD really has not official posted guarantee that I could find.

    I was considering CWD since I tried one of my trainer's client's CWD and he went reasonably well in it. The rep was also explaining that they have flexible tree points and a unique way to make the front flap that allows the scapula to slide under the front flap better. I thought this would be beneficial due to my horse's rather wide shoulders.
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)



  7. #47
    Join Date
    Mar. 13, 2009
    Posts
    1,182

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celavie18 View Post
    My saddle resembles the pony saddle in the way it looks aesthetically on the website (flaps, stitching, two-toned). However, I am sure that seat is a SE 03 because that is what it is indicated under the flap. I don't think that is a mistake.
    Probably what you ordered then is a SE03 model with calfskin flaps. Best of luck figuring everything out! For what it's worth, I felt some of the same problems that you are describing, specifically with your legs, and was talked into fully breaking in the saddle, and the rep was right--it is perfect now!



  8. #48
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2004
    Location
    Pottstown, PA (East Coventry)
    Posts
    3,070

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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    SonnysMom, what did you end up with?
    I still have nothing in hand. I have ordered a Patrick Saddlery saddle. Patrick was in town for the trade show in Oaks in Jan. He kindly came out to the barn in dress clothes, in the cold to personally measure Finnegan. We did put a demo saddle on with similar tree and panels to the one he plans on making for Fin.
    He was able to very clearly show me why my current one does not fit and how really really badly it does fit.
    I have hope that he will get it right. He seems to be taking this as a personal challenge.
    He was also able to show me where most saddles sit on Finnegan. When he would press on that spot Fin's shoulder would twitch and Fin would dance a bit on the crossties. On the demo saddle I could see the panels hit him in a different spot and he was not fidgeting with that saddle and no muscle twitching.
    My local saddle fitter will do the initial flocking adjustment when it gets here. Patrick has been kind enough to send me photos of my partially completed saddle. He has a really cool video on his facebook page about his saddle making process. He makes the trees and handmakes the saddle. This is fully custom not interchangable parts. He also has a picture of Fin's back in all its glory on his facebook page. I gave permission for him to do so.
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Patric...53214898064095
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2006
    Posts
    8,668

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    ^
    Oh hey, check it out.
    Someone with a "Society of Master Saddlers" badge on their website who has won several saddle making competitions held by them.

    Saddle options include adjustable trees, trees which are made specifically for the horse's back and checked to the template several times throughout the process, wool flocked panels, and customer-picked blocks and made-to-measure flap lengths.

    I have no idea what he charges, but THAT kind of product fitted to the horse and then made by someone with his kind of qualifications is something worth paying $5,000 for.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    15,987

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnysMom View Post
    I still have nothing in hand. I have ordered a Patrick Saddlery saddle. Patrick was in town for the trade show in Oaks in Jan. He kindly came out to the barn in dress clothes, in the cold to personally measure Finnegan. We did put a demo saddle on with similar tree and panels to the one he plans on making for Fin.
    He was able to very clearly show me why my current one does not fit and how really really badly it does fit.
    I have hope that he will get it right. He seems to be taking this as a personal challenge.
    He was also able to show me where most saddles sit on Finnegan. When he would press on that spot Fin's shoulder would twitch and Fin would dance a bit on the crossties. On the demo saddle I could see the panels hit him in a different spot and he was not fidgeting with that saddle and no muscle twitching.
    My local saddle fitter will do the initial flocking adjustment when it gets here. Patrick has been kind enough to send me photos of my partially completed saddle. He has a really cool video on his facebook page about his saddle making process. He makes the trees and handmakes the saddle. This is fully custom not interchangable parts. He also has a picture of Fin's back in all its glory on his facebook page. I gave permission for him to do so.
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Patric...53214898064095
    That looks really promising and holy cow, I just saw Finn's back! No kidding that's a challenge. I can't wait to see the finished product!
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2009
    Posts
    6,621

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnysMom View Post
    I still have nothing in hand. I have ordered a Patrick Saddlery saddle. Patrick was in town for the trade show in Oaks in Jan.

    <snip>

    My local saddle fitter will do the initial flocking adjustment when it gets here. Patrick has been kind enough to send me photos of my partially completed saddle. He has a really cool video on his facebook page about his saddle making process. He makes the trees and handmakes the saddle. This is fully custom not interchangable parts. He also has a picture of Fin's back in all its glory on his facebook page. I gave permission for him to do so.
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Patric...53214898064095
    WOW! I vote that you start Finnegan's very own saddle adventure thread (please please please) - another poster did this a few years back with a saddle she was having made & included photos from the initial fittings (for horse at the barn, then rider at the saddle shop), leather selection, & first ride.



  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2009
    Posts
    6,621

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJenners View Post
    Conformation.
    some horse are of a more religious bent than others & you really need to respect that




    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2009
    Posts
    676

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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Honestly, I cannot imagine spending $5,000 to have a saddle delivered to me by mail. My saddle fitter delivers $1,800 saddles IN PERSON. It is included in the price of the saddle; she drives the new saddle down the driveway and personally places it on the horse. The $950 saddles and the $5,000 saddles she sells get the same attention. If something were ever not to be right (and several saddles and horses later they have always been perfect on the first try), it would be addressed in person and immediately.

    Honestly cannot believe the lack of customer attention to just mail stuff out and let the customer figure it out for that kind of money. Obviously if my saddle fitter can do it for $1,800 and they are raking int $5k per it won't exactly bankrupt the company, but I guess they just can't be bothered?

    Jaysus.
    That is the service I got for my Stubben, and I didn't even end up having to have it custom fit because the rep thought it would fit my horse's back and me stock. She gave me the choice of delivering it personally to check the fit or having it mailed directly. The cost of both options was the same - nothing but the cost of the saddle. I chose to have her deliver it so I'd have the peace of mind of having her check the ft. I LOVED my Stubben rep!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
    Posts
    15,299

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnysMom View Post
    I gave permission for him to do so.
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Patric...53214898064095
    Your horse wins for the Mother Of All Saddle Fitting Challenges.

    I hope your Patrick saddle works out. Out of curiosity, will you post pictures of it on him, nekkid, and the underside?

    I want to see how any saddle resolves that back with a tree. FWIW, I can't picture a french saddle doing it. Even a wool-flocked saddle that gives you more room to make extremely 3-D gussets would look unusual.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Apr. 30, 2009
    Location
    Currituck NC
    Posts
    1,310

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnysMom View Post
    I still have nothing in hand. I have ordered a Patrick Saddlery saddle. Patrick was in town for the trade show in Oaks in Jan. He kindly came out to the barn in dress clothes, in the cold to personally measure Finnegan. We did put a demo saddle on with similar tree and panels to the one he plans on making for Fin.
    He was able to very clearly show me why my current one does not fit and how really really badly it does fit.
    I have hope that he will get it right. He seems to be taking this as a personal challenge.
    He was also able to show me where most saddles sit on Finnegan. When he would press on that spot Fin's shoulder would twitch and Fin would dance a bit on the crossties. On the demo saddle I could see the panels hit him in a different spot and he was not fidgeting with that saddle and no muscle twitching.
    My local saddle fitter will do the initial flocking adjustment when it gets here. Patrick has been kind enough to send me photos of my partially completed saddle. He has a really cool video on his facebook page about his saddle making process. He makes the trees and handmakes the saddle. This is fully custom not interchangable parts. He also has a picture of Fin's back in all its glory on his facebook page. I gave permission for him to do so.
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Patric...53214898064095
    Very interesting! I'm going to send that link to a friend...her mare is a bit "hard" to fit. Combo of a severe sway and a roach. She's playing "find a saddle" right now (although I highly doubt that is within her budget).


    Mare fat


    Mare thin



  16. #56
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2004
    Location
    Pottstown, PA (East Coventry)
    Posts
    3,070

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    Your horse wins for the Mother Of All Saddle Fitting Challenges.

    I hope your Patrick saddle works out. Out of curiosity, will you post pictures of it on him, nekkid, and the underside?

    I want to see how any saddle resolves that back with a tree. FWIW, I can't picture a french saddle doing it. Even a wool-flocked saddle that gives you more room to make extremely 3-D gussets would look unusual.
    I will be happy to post pictures when it comes in.

    I do call Finnegan Frankenhorse on occasion. Because of the high withers I have fitters that want to put him in a narrow tree but that causes bridging. He has very wide shoulders and a broad flat back once you get behind the withers. (Flat side to side, obviously not front to back).

    In this photo you can still faintly see the sharpie marks Patrick drew for the wither tracings and to illustrate the panel design. I think there will be wither gussets too.
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...type=3&theater
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)



  17. #57
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 1999
    Location
    Mendocino County, CA: Turkey Vulture HQ
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    14,474

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    So the panels will sit completely behind his shoulders then, am I reading those sharpie marks correctly? And then the saddle will have some structure beyond the front of the panels for your leg? (Is this for a jumping or a dressage saddle?)
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket



  18. #58
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2006
    Location
    rapidan,virginia
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    1,542

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnysMom View Post
    I will be happy to post pictures when it comes in.

    I do call Finnegan Frankenhorse on occasion. Because of the high withers I have fitters that want to put him in a narrow tree but that causes bridging. He has very wide shoulders and a broad flat back once you get behind the withers. (Flat side to side, obviously not front to back).

    In this photo you can still faintly see the sharpie marks Patrick drew for the wither tracings and to illustrate the panel design. I think there will be wither gussets too.
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...type=3&theater
    Wow, that's fascinating. A good saddle fitter/maker is like a structural engineer.
    "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
    Rainy: http://tinyurl.com/kj7x53c
    Stash: http://tinyurl.com/mmm3p4e


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2004
    Location
    Pottstown, PA (East Coventry)
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    Quote Originally Posted by poltroon View Post
    So the panels will sit completely behind his shoulders then, am I reading those sharpie marks correctly? And then the saddle will have some structure beyond the front of the panels for your leg? (Is this for a jumping or a dressage saddle?)
    Yes the majority of the panels will sit behind the shoulder. Because of his conformation if the saddle panels sit on his shoulders it pushes the saddle back anyway. He did put the demo saddle on his back further than I am used to but I know that many people put the saddle too far forward.
    He would put the saddle on and show me the middle point of the saddle and then lift it up to show the corresponding section of his back that would support that weight.
    The panels he drew were a rough approximation of the shape and placement. Most of the point of the drawing was that the saddle would not be supported up on the sides of his withers which would cause pinching.
    When he demonstrated the weight being supported higher up Finnegan's shoulder would twitch. When the weight is supported lower it did not twitch and he was much more comfortable.

    The saddle is a jump saddle.
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)



  20. #60
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    8

    Thumbs up

    Hello everyone,

    So I met my the rep yesterday and it was a pleasant experience. He was kind and helped me figure out what I needed. He never once tried to get me to keep the saddle that i didn't feel secure in. The seat and flaps were in fact too small. I tried another model and he is rebuilding a totally new saddle for me, and putting a rush on it so I have it sooner. He is hand delivering it when it arrives.

    So, I'm beyond happy with the customer service I received. He even left me with a demo to ride in until my saddle arrives. Mission accomplished and I'll end up with the saddle of my dreams. Thank you all for your answers in support to my questions.


    14 members found this post helpful.

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